Princes Park => Robert Heatley Stand => Topic started by: crashlander on July 03, 2026, 07:13:36 pm
Title: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: crashlander on July 03, 2026, 07:13:36 pm
Ready for tomorrow.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: laj on July 04, 2026, 10:30:16 pm
I don't think I want to play a crap team again. 3 games against two of the sh ittiest sides in years and we won them by a total of 11pts.
I seriously prefer to play a good side. We seems to lift our level. We've beaten sides competing against us for a top 10 spot, rolled Geelong,seems to have started their form slump, but play Essendon and Richmond and we barely turn up and nearly lose.
What's with our goalkicking! We should have stitched that game up early in the last qtr but kicked 6 pts straight either side of 3/4 time.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on July 04, 2026, 10:37:40 pm
W
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LordLucifer on July 04, 2026, 10:39:19 pm
I try not to pile on the umps but those two late calls against the Blues were really bad.
Haynes did no worse than a gazillion defenders have done all season yet the umpire decided to ping him, that is another of a handful of rules that needs to be thrown out completely.
As for Campbell being grabbed to high, the replay clearly showed he "did a Ginnivan" and ducked well into it and early too. Really poor call from the umpire and it is a serious concern because if they can't get stuff like that right, then you have to question what is going on behind the scenes ......... match-fixing, betting etc.
Blues should have kicked straighter and held a 5-goal buffer, made hard work of it and never should have been in that position.
Kudos to the young Tigers for fighting it out, big raspberry to Lynch who is getting grossly overpaid for the woeful kicking at goal he showed us.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LordLucifer on July 04, 2026, 10:42:29 pm
Miller has to be cited for kicking Byrne in the head too, that was unforgiveable.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: laj on July 04, 2026, 10:50:06 pm
I try not to pile on the umps but those two late calls against the Blues were really bad.
Haynes did no worse than a gazillion defenders have done all season yet the umpire decided to ping him, that is another of a handful of rules that needs to be thrown out completely.
As for Campbell being grabbed to high, the replay clearly showed he "did a Ginnivan" and ducked well into it and early too. Really poor call from the umpire and it is a serious concern because if they can't get stuff like that right, then you have to question what is going on behind the scenes ......... match-fixing, betting etc.
Blues should have kicked straighter and held a 5-goal buffer, made hard work of it and never should have been in that position.
Kudos to the young Tigers for fighting it out, big raspberry to Lynch who is getting grossly overpaid for the woeful kicking at goal he showed us.
Too many umpires. There's 4 each game so it means you have to get right into the dregs of umpire depth to umpire each game. So you get poor umpiring. Like a football side having to play each week with player's numbers 30 to 40 on their list and expect to get a good performance. You'll get rubbish.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: laj on July 04, 2026, 10:54:55 pm
September is now in our own hands at least.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: RiverRat on July 04, 2026, 11:01:52 pm
A crappy game to watch and to umpire
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Sexybronco on July 04, 2026, 11:06:21 pm
Next week will be a different level match, and I hope we can rise to the occasion.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: kruddler on July 04, 2026, 11:12:56 pm
I don't think I want to play a crap team again. 3 games against two of the sh ittiest sides in years and we won them by a total of 11pts.
I seriously prefer to play a good side. We seems to lift our level. We've beaten sides competing against us for a top 10 spot, rolled Geelong,seems to have started their form slump, but play Essendon and Richmond and we barely turn up and nearly lose.
What's with our goalkicking! We should have stitched that game up early in the last qtr but kicked 6 pts straight either side of 3/4 time.
Careful what you wsh for Jimbo.
Got the hawks next week who have a knack of humbling us. We lost our last 3 against them by an average of over 6 goals. We may be down a few defenders going into this one too.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: laj on July 04, 2026, 11:22:17 pm
I don't think I want to play a crap team again. 3 games against two of the sh ittiest sides in years and we won them by a total of 11pts.
I seriously prefer to play a good side. We seems to lift our level. We've beaten sides competing against us for a top 10 spot, rolled Geelong,seems to have started their form slump, but play Essendon and Richmond and we barely turn up and nearly lose.
What's with our goalkicking! We should have stitched that game up early in the last qtr but kicked 6 pts straight either side of 3/4 time.
Careful what you wsh for Jimbo.
Got the hawks next week who have a knack of humbling us. We lost our last 3 against them by an average of over 6 goals. We may be down a few defenders going into this one too.
And probably due for a loss too. Hard to keep winning.
Hawks had a few out. Seems their depth isn't that great so hopefully they are still out.
Football is stressful....lol.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: laj on July 04, 2026, 11:25:52 pm
Next week will be a different level match, and I hope we can rise to the occasion.
We seems to rise and drop to the level of our opposition depending on who it is lately.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Professer E on July 04, 2026, 11:33:39 pm
Record against the Whorks is woeful.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Professer E on July 04, 2026, 11:39:12 pm
Nice flop from that kid after incidental contact from Walsh, does he get a fine for staging? 44 should have been sat in his arse for taunting. Always been a mob of flogs at Punt Rd.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: crashlander on July 05, 2026, 12:15:44 am
Miller has to be cited for kicking Byrne in the head too, that was unforgiveable.
And he didn't even get a free for it!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: crashlander on July 05, 2026, 12:35:01 am
Back from the game and not particularly happy. We got the win, but...
[1] I don't want to bag the umpires, but they hurt us tonight. I think we got one holding the ball for the night, and we were lucky to get that one (we kicked a goal from it). The non-free to H ... No, I don't want to go there.
[2] One ruckman works until it doesn't. I've been happy to have Pitto as #1 banana, with H giving him a chop out, as have most of us. But tonight we didn't have a plan B against Nankervis, who almost won the game for them with his total dominance. Pitto took a couple of good marks, but his inability to even nullify Nankervis almost cost us the match. I would bring Riley in. He was good today. Hawthorn have two bono fides rucks, and they usually play well against us. Melbourne showed what a team cam do to Hawthorn when they get thrashed in the ruck. We need to do that next week. It was one of the reasons why many of our mids were relatively down tonight; they couldn't get first possession.
[3] Nick Haynes come on down! After probably losing us the game in Rd 1 last year, Nick Haynes was the reason we won it this time. He was magnificent, with 10 marks and 17 disposals. He read the ball in the air really well and didn't fumble. Kudos also goes to Wade Derksen, who did a great job all night. For that matter, Lewis Young was playing one of his best games when he was concussed.
[4] Our list lacks talls: When Young went off, McGovern had to go back. he was pretty good down there, but it really robbed us of forward options. We had nobody to take a grab in the forward line, with Kemp well beaten after half time. Kemp was good early, but after half time, he barely touched it.
[5] Ollie Hollands had a shocker: We probably made a mistake bringing Hollands in. He was very good before he got injured, but he really struggled tonight. Acres would have been more effective. We might not drop him though, hoping the run will do him good. Jack Ison probably needs to go back as well, as he is now fumbling and second guessing himself. Give him a week or two to get his confidence back and he will do what is required.
[6] Jagga Smith and George Hewett: Both had strong game, particularly considering how badly Pitto was being beaten. George had 26 disposals, 9 tackles, 2 goals and 4 clearances. Jagga had 29 disposals, 5 tackles and 4 clearances. They were huge.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: bratblue on July 05, 2026, 09:54:35 am
Good teams find ways to win when things are against them. Our back line was decimated but, still, we found a way. Cripps wasn't as influential but Jagga and Hewitt stood up. It was ugly and hard and kudos to Richmond, their young players and the umps, they fought it out and made us work. That's fine by me as it builds self belief of which we had none not so long ago.
Speaking of Jagga, he cost us 12 and 14 or something, you would be hard to find anyone who would disagree with that trade. It was a brave decision. I read recently that Voss wasn't keen on it until he was shown a highlight reel, then he was very excited. Its very difficult unless you're a bottom team to get players like that. His parents named him well.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: PaulP on July 05, 2026, 09:57:12 am
By rights we should all be doing cartwheels, given we've just notched our 7th consecutive win. That’s pretty rare for any team. But last night has left us feeling flat. The gap between our best and worst is large, and the struggling teams are able to drag us down to their level. We won’t get within 10 goals of Hawthorn if we have a repeat of last night.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Thryleon on July 05, 2026, 10:07:12 am
Are the revisionists going to tell us we are remarkably different under Fraser?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Adelaideblue on July 05, 2026, 10:49:30 am
Back from the game and not particularly happy. We got the win, but...
[1] I don't want to bag the umpires, but they hurt us tonight. I think we got one holding the ball for the night, and we were lucky to get that one (we kicked a goal from it). The non-free to H ... No, I don't want to go there.
[2] One ruckman works until it doesn't. I've been happy to have Pitto as #1 banana, with H giving him a chop out, as have most of us. But tonight we didn't have a plan B against Nankervis, who almost won the game for them with his total dominance. Pitto took a couple of good marks, but his inability to even nullify Nankervis almost cost us the match. I would bring Riley in. He was good today. Hawthorn have two bono fides rucks, and they usually play well against us. Melbourne showed what a team cam do to Hawthorn when they get thrashed in the ruck. We need to do that next week. It was one of the reasons why many of our mids were relatively down tonight; they couldn't get first possession.
[3] Nick Haynes come on down! After probably losing us the game in Rd 1 last year, Nick Haynes was the reason we won it this time. He was magnificent, with 10 marks and 17 disposals. He read the ball in the air really well and didn't fumble. Kudos also goes to Wade Derksen, who did a great job all night. For that matter, Lewis Young was playing one of his best games when he was concussed.
[4] Our list lacks talls: When Young went off, McGovern had to go back. he was pretty good down there, but it really robbed us of forward options. We had nobody to take a grab in the forward line, with Kemp well beaten after half time. Kemp was good early, but after half time, he barely touched it.
[5] Ollie Hollands had a shocker: We probably made a mistake bringing Hollands in. He was very good before he got injured, but he really struggled tonight. Acres would have been more effective. We might not drop him though, hoping the run will do him good. Jack Ison probably needs to go back as well, as he is now fumbling and second guessing himself. Give him a week or two to get his confidence back and he will do what is required.
[6] Jagga Smith and George Hewett: Both had strong game, particularly considering how badly Pitto was being beaten. George had 26 disposals, 9 tackles, 2 goals and 4 clearances. Jagga had 29 disposals, 5 tackles and 4 clearances. They were huge.
Nice stuff, Captain.
What an ordinary game. Umpiring standard continues to decline - blatant kicking in danger (favouring us) missed in the middle and a late hit on Jagga after disposing of the ball, also missed. H getting his arms chopped with a front on tackle -- eyes not on the ball -- which even stopped all the players. Just to mention a few howlers.
As you mentioned, Captain, I hope Ollie H is better for the run because his impact was zilch and when he has ball in hand I get very nervous... his disposals can't be trusted.
The Frase audition starts now. Let's see how we do against the Dorks and Rottingwood over the coming fortnight.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Sexybronco on July 05, 2026, 11:00:50 am
Are the revisionists going to tell us we are remarkably different under Fraser?
Of course we are...........2 points worse!! :)
We are playing a better game style based on the revised ball movement and positional changes for some players, we’ve also benefited from the improved form of our mature recruits who took a little time (understandably) to find their feet. Fraser has continued to say we have a lot of work to do which I think we all agree is right, more talent is also need in the ruck and forward line. Let’s hope this is the start of a resurrection of sorts irrespective of who our next coach is as the continued cycle of mediocrity we’ve experienced has us all fatigued and frustrated.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Baggers on July 05, 2026, 11:01:53 am
Are the revisionists going to tell us we are remarkably different under Fraser?
Remarkably? No. Better? Yes.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 05, 2026, 11:13:56 am
Far too close for my liking. As George said in the post match, the games v them are close and they match up well. We are fortunate Lynch had a dirty night. As for some of the umpiring, my goodness me !!! As I always say, a win's a win.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 05, 2026, 11:19:01 am
Back from the game and not particularly happy. We got the win, but...
[1] I don't want to bag the umpires, but they hurt us tonight. I think we got one holding the ball for the night, and we were lucky to get that one (we kicked a goal from it). The non-free to H ... No, I don't want to go there.
[2] One ruckman works until it doesn't. I've been happy to have Pitto as #1 banana, with H giving him a chop out, as have most of us. But tonight we didn't have a plan B against Nankervis, who almost won the game for them with his total dominance. Pitto took a couple of good marks, but his inability to even nullify Nankervis almost cost us the match. I would bring Riley in. He was good today. Hawthorn have two bono fides rucks, and they usually play well against us. Melbourne showed what a team cam do to Hawthorn when they get thrashed in the ruck. We need to do that next week. It was one of the reasons why many of our mids were relatively down tonight; they couldn't get first possession.
[3] Nick Haynes come on down! After probably losing us the game in Rd 1 last year, Nick Haynes was the reason we won it this time. He was magnificent, with 10 marks and 17 disposals. He read the ball in the air really well and didn't fumble. Kudos also goes to Wade Derksen, who did a great job all night. For that matter, Lewis Young was playing one of his best games when he was concussed.
[4] Our list lacks talls: When Young went off, McGovern had to go back. he was pretty good down there, but it really robbed us of forward options. We had nobody to take a grab in the forward line, with Kemp well beaten after half time. Kemp was good early, but after half time, he barely touched it.
[5] Ollie Hollands had a shocker: We probably made a mistake bringing Hollands in. He was very good before he got injured, but he really struggled tonight. Acres would have been more effective. We might not drop him though, hoping the run will do him good. Jack Ison probably needs to go back as well, as he is now fumbling and second guessing himself. Give him a week or two to get his confidence back and he will do what is required.
[6] Jagga Smith and George Hewett: Both had strong game, particularly considering how badly Pitto was being beaten. George had 26 disposals, 9 tackles, 2 goals and 4 clearances. Jagga had 29 disposals, 5 tackles and 4 clearances. They were huge.
Spot on Crash. nicely and accurately summed up. The non free to H was terrible but we did get the goal from the stoppage that resulted. The Hayne penalty over the goal line was a disgrace by the ump. That would have lost us the game if the margin was less than 6, why wasnt it reviewed at least? I thought the umps put the whistle away after that last ball up.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on July 05, 2026, 11:41:49 am
Tonight we saw the pointless nature of counting hit outs, because if you look at these stats in a year or so you'd probably think Pitto won on the night. But excluding Hewett, I'd probably have Nankervis and Bolta as 2 of the 3 best on the ground.
But we shouldn't be shocked about this, we just have to go into games with open eyes and an open mind. If you put on the navy blue glasses you'll be disappointed because you be shuttering your eyes to our weakness. Look at the result this way, we were smashed in the ruck, smashed at stoppages and smashed around the ground, the stats might not clearly show it. But we won, despite Cripps, Walsh and Cerra being soundly defeated. Jagga was probably a break even, and Hewett was a win.
Last week we saw some of the early signs of the pre-Fraser Carlton starting to poke it's head out, last night was another step backwards. I hate that this happened but I predicted it, and I predicted Nankervis having that influence, because he's a poison to our Mids. This isn't about OH or Cottrell being in, Acres or Weiters being out, that is just correlation. It's about the team starting to sit back and hesitate, waiting for the person next to them to do the hard work.
Go back and watch the replay, count how many times two blues get to the footy first and spend precious moments staring deeply into each other's eyes waiting for someone to pick up and give them the footy. The exact opposite of Fraser's "play so we look like a team you'd want to play for!" Partly this is a Nankervis / Balta aggression effect.
Sam Mitchell won't miss this fact, and you can expect next week the Dawks will be in full bruiser mode after that disastrous first half against the Dees.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: RiverRat on July 05, 2026, 11:47:55 am
Couldn't happen to a more deserving sniper. Kicking for goal is almost on as reliable as the worst Casboult era.
Apparently he kicked 2 goals 7 behinds in the earlier match - as the bloody annoying commentator kept reminding us.
And speaking of commentators - I am sick and tired of hearing them repeatedly telling us what they would do, instead of describing what tactics and match-ups are being employed.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: RiverRat on July 05, 2026, 11:52:32 am
Look at the result this way, we were smashed in the ruck, smashed at stoppages and smashed around the ground, the stats might not clearly show it. But we won, despite Cripps, Walsh and Cerra being soundly defeated. Jagga was probably a break even, and Hewett was a win.
Spot on - full credit to Hewitt and pass mark for Jagga's creative offensive play but he wouldn't want to give up too many easy goals like the one he yielded to the goal square clearance late in the match.
There were pre-match suggestions that Cripps was sore and might not have played so I am wondering if he was rotated out of the centre square more than usual as a form of protection.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on July 05, 2026, 11:52:59 am
And speaking of commentators - I am sick and tired of hearing them repeatedly telling us what they would do, instead of describing what tactics and match-ups are being employed.
How silly of you, to actually think the commentator would be calling the game! :o
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: RiverRat on July 05, 2026, 11:54:32 am
And speaking of commentators - I am sick and tired of hearing them repeatedly telling us what they would do, instead of describing what tactics and match-ups are being employed.
How silly of you, to actually think the commentator would be calling the game! :o
Just wishful thinking.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on July 05, 2026, 11:54:45 am
There were pre-match suggestions that Cripps was sore and might not have played so I am wondering if he was rotated out of the centre square more than usual as a form of protection.
@RiverRat I was thinking the very same thing, like we were trying to limit further damage or something, because normally there is no way in hell when we are being smashed in clearances that we'd be moving Cripps out!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: DJC on July 05, 2026, 12:01:30 pm
A win is a win and seven on the trot is some achievement!
Richmond had the yips in front of goal but some of our set shots were atrocious. We had 17 marks inside 50 but could only manage ten goals! Misses from 30 metres and virtually straight in front are inexcusable.
Haynes definitely took the ball over the behind line before he was pinged and that is exactly the kind of howler that the ARC should be used to eliminate.
Then there's the AFL's announcement that umpires will reverse free kicks against players who deliberately ruffle or pat an opponent's head. Rather than Alger having a shot on the siren at the end of the first quarter, Walsh should have been roosting the ball down the line. Still, it was a brainfade on Walsh's part to give away that free.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: crashlander on July 05, 2026, 12:42:54 pm
Richmond had the yips in front of goal but some of our set shots were atrocious. We had 17 marks inside 50 but could only manage ten goals! Misses from 30 metres and virtually straight in front are inexcusable.
Kicking at goal appears to be a big problem for us. Just happy George could kick straight. We really have to deal with our goal kicking, as it has cost us games. It has also been a major issue for the 2's.
Haynes definitely took the ball over the behind line before he was pinged and that is exactly the kind of howler that the ARC should be used to eliminate.
Just saw the replay of that incident. Haynes was murdered. It was over the line clearly. The ARC is supposed to rule on things like this. As for the Umps, they really need a kick up the posterior. Is there any wonder they get criticism when they do this sort of rubbish. Those umps need to be dropped.
Then there's the AFL's announcement that umpires will reverse free kicks against players who deliberately ruffle or pat an opponent's head. Rather than Alger having a shot on the siren at the end of the first quarter, Walsh should have been roosting the ball down the line. Still, it was a brainfade on Walsh's part to give away that free.
Again, this was unforgiveable. It was bad enough that Walsh did what he did, but the umpires' inability to know the rules means they should be dropped.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: crashlander on July 05, 2026, 01:05:52 pm
I will watch the replay, as I usually do, but I do wonder how much I will enjoy it.
Having seen this result, the question becomes, how can we improve for next weekend? We had a few guys down this week who have been significant for us: [1] Harry McKay: the weather didn't help, nor did the fact that we struggled to get centre breaks, but H really had an ordinary night. he made little impression in the ruck - his first two contests were great, but that was about it. 9 possessions, 3 taps and 4 marks. To be honest, I think the weather was more of a factor than usual, as we lost some of the precision in our kicking. But we were slow moving the ball, so H had to deal with packs.
[2] Brodie Kemp: his 1st half was excellent, but he struggled after half time. As with H, our slow ball movement and poor kicking didn't help him. But also we had McGovern, was was doing well, in defence, which left us terribly undermanned in the forward line.
[3] Matt Cottrell: Cottrell didn't have a night to remember. He just struggled to get into the game.
[4] Ollie Hollands: Ollie really struggled last night. He fumbled a lot and his kicking was woeful. Also, we didn't see his run and carry either. Will we bring Acres in? Or do we assume Ollie will be better for the run? To be honest, I don't expect Ollie to be that ordinary two weeks in a row, but I think Acres is important to us.
[5] Jack Ison: Jack is off the boil at the moment. He is fumbling and his kicks are not hitting the target like they did earlier. He did a couple of great things, but is just lacking that confidence he had. Do we give him a rest? It wouldn't hurt him, but who di we bring in? Moir is an option, as he is playing a bit better.
[6] Talor Byrne: Like Ison, Talor is off his best, but he did some crucial things. I would be keeping him in, if just for his tackling and smarts. His pass to the centre from the picket was brilliant.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: pew2 on July 05, 2026, 01:41:21 pm
our game plan needs to change ess wce and tigers games prove to me that against good sides we will be punished
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Professer E on July 05, 2026, 02:41:46 pm
Rucks, pace and conversion remain big issues
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Shakin77 on July 05, 2026, 03:44:41 pm
[4] Ollie Hollands: Ollie really struggled last night. He fumbled a lot and his kicking was woeful. Also, we didn't see his run and carry either. Will we bring Acres in? Or do we assume Ollie will be better for the run? To be honest, I don't expect Ollie to be that ordinary two weeks in a row, but I think Acres is important to us.
Not suggesting for a moment that Ollie was one of our best, but he played on the wing in front of me mostly against Retschko.
He works incredibly hard pushing back as that defensive winger (Acres also very good at this) and had 17.1 metres covered. The most on the ground of any player on the ground. Seth Campbell with 14.9 and Newman with 14.2
I thought his game was fairly unremarkable. He had 1 clanger for the game and 0 turnovers. He also went at 84.6% with the ball and 77.8% by foot.
Would love to know what the coaches thought of his game
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on July 05, 2026, 03:51:27 pm
OH just gets whipped by fans for pushing hard and getting to the contest, then under fatigue much like Acres disposal can be variable, but they are running themselves into the ground to get to the contest.
You don't see this disposal variability from other players, because they didn't push hard to get there in the first place, and the opposition had a free uncontested possession. Acres, OH, Cottrell, when they are on automatic they close the gaps.
Of course many fans ball watch, so they don't ever see the lead up effort.
FWIW. My criticism of Acres last week wasn't about his effort, he always works hard to get to the contest. My criticism was he was a bit variable on contesting, to me there should be no choice, no hesitation, contesting should be automatic and instantaneous. Especially a player of Acres size and shape, he's no lightweight frame. Maybe he is still not 100%, as I think was Cripps last night.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Baggers on July 05, 2026, 03:59:21 pm
[4] Ollie Hollands: Ollie really struggled last night. He fumbled a lot and his kicking was woeful. Also, we didn't see his run and carry either. Will we bring Acres in? Or do we assume Ollie will be better for the run? To be honest, I don't expect Ollie to be that ordinary two weeks in a row, but I think Acres is important to us.
Not suggesting for a moment that Ollie was one of our best, but he played on the wing in front of me mostly against Retschko.
He works incredibly hard pushing back as that defensive winger (Acres also very good at this) and had 17.1 metres covered. The most on the ground of any player on the ground. Seth Campbell with 14.9 and Newman with 14.2
I thought his game was fairly unremarkable. He had 1 clanger for the game and 0 turnovers. He also went at 84.6% with the ball and 77.8% by foot.
Would love to know what the coaches thought of his game
No-one could or would ever question Ollie's work rate. It makes him a sentimental favourite with many fans. Personally, I also love his commitment and endeavour.
Stats don't tell us the quality of his disposals, choice of options or footy IQ. Statistically, Acres had almost three times the metres gained in his game against the Weagles last week. And in a territory gained game, that's an important stat... provided disposal accuracy and choice of options hurt the opposition.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: laj on July 05, 2026, 04:04:02 pm
By rights we should all be doing cartwheels, given we've just notched our 7th consecutive win. That’s pretty rare for any team. But last night has left us feeling flat. The gap between our best and worst is large, and the struggling teams are able to drag us down to their level. We won’t get within 10 goals of Hawthorn if we have a repeat of last night.
As we've found, our form goes up and down according to the level of the opposition. It was the same against Essendon, then we won the next game well against GWS in Sydney, and a 53pt win last week.
I feel more confident beating a side like Freo more easily than beating Richmond. Not to say we would but I'd feel more confident in it.
Looked like last night we were content to do enough and no more then a couple of nasty umpiring decisions caused us real issues suddenly late in the game.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: kruddler on July 05, 2026, 04:11:44 pm
[4] Ollie Hollands: Ollie really struggled last night. He fumbled a lot and his kicking was woeful. Also, we didn't see his run and carry either. Will we bring Acres in? Or do we assume Ollie will be better for the run? To be honest, I don't expect Ollie to be that ordinary two weeks in a row, but I think Acres is important to us.
Not suggesting for a moment that Ollie was one of our best, but he played on the wing in front of me mostly against Retschko.
He works incredibly hard pushing back as that defensive winger (Acres also very good at this) and had 17.1 metres covered. The most on the ground of any player on the ground. Seth Campbell with 14.9 and Newman with 14.2
I thought his game was fairly unremarkable. He had 1 clanger for the game and 0 turnovers. He also went at 84.6% with the ball and 77.8% by foot.
Would love to know what the coaches thought of his game
I'm a fan of OH, but i found that selection a bit puzzling.
What did OH provide that Acres wasn't providing already? Did OH do anything better than Acres?
Long term, sure, get more games into Ollie.....but i thought it was a bit of a risk and a slap in the face to Acres. I would've had both in the team and dropped Ison personally.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on July 05, 2026, 04:17:24 pm
I would've had both in the team and dropped Ison personally.
I thought the same, I think Ison is overdue a break, he did a couple of important things at opportune moments, but at this time he's just not getting enough footy to hold that high half forward role.
Having said that, who does it short term? There is no doubt Ison has what is needed long term. I had hoped one of the Campos, but if the OH disposal makes fans fume then the Campos at the moment would send them insane!
My mate said yesterday, if Weiters returns do we rotate Derksen forward and put Kemp into that high half forward role? If nothing else, Derksen should be taking some confidence into F50 from his last few weeks.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Shakin77 on July 05, 2026, 04:26:17 pm
Not suggesting for a moment that Ollie was one of our best, but he played on the wing in front of me mostly against Retschko.
He works incredibly hard pushing back as that defensive winger (Acres also very good at this) and had 17.1 metres covered. The most on the ground of any player on the ground. Seth Campbell with 14.9 and Newman with 14.2
I thought his game was fairly unremarkable. He had 1 clanger for the game and 0 turnovers. He also went at 84.6% with the ball and 77.8% by foot.
Would love to know what the coaches thought of his game
No-one could or would ever question Ollie's work rate. It makes him a sentimental favourite with many fans. Personally, I also love his commitment and endeavour.
Stats don't tell us the quality of his disposals, choice of options or footy IQ. Statistically, Acres had almost three times the metres gained in his game against the Weagles last week. And in a territory gained game, that's an important stat... provided disposal accuracy and choice of options hurt the opposition.
It was a different game. The Tigers like to turn it into the scrap and have a lot of congestion.
I would argue that Disposal efficiency is a good indication of how efficient his disposal is. The Other stuff like choice of options or footy IQ is more subjective. I just can't remember any howlers with the ball.
In regards to metres gain. Yeah agree.
Might need to factor in however that we had 71 (31.5%) extra uncontested possession and 41 (40.59%) more marks against the Eagles than the Tigers. It was a much more open game.
Add to that MCG in the rain on a Saturday night vrs Saturday afternoon under the lid at Marvel in perfect conditions.
Like I said I don't think he was remarkable by any measure. Thought his game was meddling at best.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Thryleon on July 05, 2026, 06:07:49 pm
All the easy teams are gone now the real stuff begins.
Just marginally better last night - we had to overcome a few things this time had no weitering lost dean late and then Young during the game. umps handled them a few goals very late. Round 1 we only won because Lynch kicked 2-7.
‘All the easy teams are gone’. im assuming you are referring to Ess and Rich only as GWS away Port Away, Geelong and Bulldogs are not easy for a mid teir team.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: laj on July 05, 2026, 07:35:00 pm
All the easy teams are gone now the real stuff begins.
We beat quite a few teams competing against us for a wildcard, plus Geelong. Alot of our run home is against teams competing for a wildcard. Hawks, Lions and Freo too. Reckon on form the Lions is the toughest. Our worst effort we saved for two horrible sides, Tigers and the Bombers.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: kruddler on July 05, 2026, 07:36:16 pm
All the easy teams are gone now the real stuff begins.
Just marginally better last night - we had to overcome a few things this time had no weitering lost dean late and then Young during the game. umps handled them a few goals very late. Round 1 we only won because Lynch kicked 2-7.
‘All the easy teams are gone’. im assuming you are referring to Ess and Rich only as GWS away Port Away, Geelong and Bulldogs are not easy for a mid teir team.
Ladder and record speaks for itself.
Our record in 2026 vs....
Top 6 teams 0-5
Bottom 4 teams 5-0
Middle 7 teams 3-3
Overall 8-8.
Tell me again about how its all about the coach.
Edited. Fixed error in formula
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on July 05, 2026, 07:47:18 pm
Just marginally better last night - we had to overcome a few things this time had no weitering lost dean late and then Young during the game. umps handled them a few goals very late. Round 1 we only won because Lynch kicked 2-7.
‘All the easy teams are gone’. im assuming you are referring to Ess and Rich only as GWS away Port Away, Geelong and Bulldogs are not easy for a mid teir team.
Ladder and record speaks for itself.
Our record in 2026 vs....
Top 6 teams 0-6
Bottom 4 teams 5-0
Middle 7 teams 4-3
Overall 9-9.
Tell me again about how its all about the coach.
I'm not sure that is correct. ???
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: kruddler on July 05, 2026, 07:51:41 pm
Just marginally better last night - we had to overcome a few things this time had no weitering lost dean late and then Young during the game. umps handled them a few goals very late. Round 1 we only won because Lynch kicked 2-7.
‘All the easy teams are gone’. im assuming you are referring to Ess and Rich only as GWS away Port Away, Geelong and Bulldogs are not easy for a mid teir team.
Ladder and record speaks for itself.
Our record in 2026 vs....
Top 6 teams 0-5
Bottom 4 teams 5-0
Middle 7 teams 3-3
Overall 8-8.
Tell me again about how its all about the coach.
Edited. Fixed error in formula
Geelong were 3rd and literally flying when we played them. Very pleased to have gone from 1-8 to 8-8. Can't believe going from as bad as we were going that we have leveled up the ledger and sit 10th. Haven't lost to a side competing against us for a wildcard in the last 7 weeks. 3 others plus Geelong. Prior to that we lost to all of them, which happens when you have lost nearly every game.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: laj on July 05, 2026, 08:22:02 pm
Weren't StKilda and North higher ehen they beat us? Doesn't matter. The real stuff starts now. All that matters are wins, no excuses.
Yep, Hawthorn and Collingwood have beaten us more times than I care to remember in recent times. A win against one or both will begin the balancing of the ledger.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: madbluboy on July 05, 2026, 09:16:48 pm
1. L / ? 2. L 3. ? 4. L/? 5. L 6. L 7. W 8. W / ? 9. L / ? 10. Carlton 11. L 12. L /? 13. W 14. ? 15. W 16. W 17. W / W 18. W
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: laj on July 05, 2026, 09:39:55 pm
Weren't StKilda and North higher ehen they beat us? Doesn't matter. The real stuff starts now. All that matters are wins, no excuses.
Yes. They were.
We won't win them all, I'd be thinking PF at least if, in the highly unlikely event, we did, but we need to win the real vital games against fellow top 10 contenders. We have Collingwood, St.Kilda, Bulldogs and GC as fellow top 10 contenders that we are playing. I did a ladder predictor last week and worked out 4 wins may well squeeze us into 10th, which is now 3 after last night. A win over one of the Hawks, Dockers or Lions would really help. Beat the Hawks this week and we are just 6pts behind them.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: kruddler on July 05, 2026, 10:38:18 pm
Its not when we played them. Its where they are now.
The longer the season, the more accurate the ladder.
Geelong were 4th up until this round of matches. Tell me you haven't picked the week they slipped out of the top 4 to post that list. ::) They're still one game away from 4th.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: kruddler on July 05, 2026, 11:27:16 pm
Its not when we played them. Its where they are now.
The longer the season, the more accurate the ladder.
Geelong were 4th up until this round of matches. Tell me you haven't picked the week they slipped out of the top 4 to post that list. ::) They're still one game away from 4th.
I was responded to a comment shawny made.
Did i hack into his account and post the question just so i could answer it this week?? You borrowed LPs tin foil hat??
I didn't know the figures would shape out that way. As you saw from my mistake with posting figures, i made it up on the spot....apparantly too quickly to check if it was right!
So i'm sorry if this week is different to last week, and maybe next week, but i had nothing to do with it.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on July 06, 2026, 12:12:31 am
Geelong were 4th up until this round of matches. Tell me you haven't picked the week they slipped out of the top 4 to post that list. ::) They're still one game away from 4th.
I was responded to a comment shawny made.
Did i hack into his account and post the question just so i could answer it this week?? You borrowed LPs tin foil hat??
I didn't know the figures would shape out that way. As you saw from my mistake with posting figures, i made it up on the spot....apparantly too quickly to check if it was right!
So i'm sorry if this week is different to last week, and maybe next week, but i had nothing to do with it.
It looks poor.
I get that folks aren't entirely happy with the way things have panned out with regard to the coaching situation. But it comes across as pretty petty that we're going out of our way to point out the quality of opposition. It's not a state secret.
We're well aware of who we've beaten, and who we face, and the difficulty in maintaining a winning streak. If we're crediting Voss with some influence in the 'wins' does that contribution get abandoned if things go pear shaped. No, it's all part of the journey and progress.
Teams have ebbs and flows through a season. Injuries sometimes (often) play a part in results. Had we had Weitering and Dean yesterday the result may have been more clear cut. By the same token we've probably had a win or two when the opposition have had players out.
The other bit of nonsense is this "Sack coach" rubbish that gets a mention whenever a team gets a run on. It was funny the first time. It's ridiculous now. We were getting runs against us nearly every week It's happening far less now.
Very few (almost none) of us think we have a flag side. Even a top 6-8 side. We're a middle of the road side. That's reflected in our results.
Most have acknolwedged Voss's contribution...but he has a new job now. It's time to let it go. I'd like to see us make finals but I really won't be too distressed if it doesn't happen this year. We're a bit in limbo without a full time coach. Game plans and players could be significantly different next year. But at the moment we're winning games we should win, and picking up a couple we weren't expected to win....why can't we enjoy that while it lasts.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Thryleon on July 06, 2026, 07:53:23 am
Did i hack into his account and post the question just so i could answer it this week?? You borrowed LPs tin foil hat??
I didn't know the figures would shape out that way. As you saw from my mistake with posting figures, i made it up on the spot....apparantly too quickly to check if it was right!
So i'm sorry if this week is different to last week, and maybe next week, but i had nothing to do with it.
It looks poor.
I get that folks aren't entirely happy with the way things have panned out with regard to the coaching situation. But it comes across as pretty petty that we're going out of our way to point out the quality of opposition. It's not a state secret.
We're well aware of who we've beaten, and who we face, and the difficulty in maintaining a winning streak. If we're crediting Voss with some influence in the 'wins' does that contribution get abandoned if things go pear shaped. No, it's all part of the journey and progress.
Teams have ebbs and flows through a season. Injuries sometimes (often) play a part in results. Had we had Weitering and Dean yesterday the result may have been more clear cut. By the same token we've probably had a win or two when the opposition have had players out.
The other bit of nonsense is this "Sack coach" rubbish that gets a mention whenever a team gets a run on. It was funny the first time. It's ridiculous now. We were getting runs against us nearly every week It's happening far less now.
Very few (almost none) of us think we have a flag side. Even a top 6-8 side. We're a middle of the road side. That's reflected in our results.
Most have acknolwedged Voss's contribution...but he has a new job now. It's time to let it go. I'd like to see us make finals but I really won't be too distressed if it doesn't happen this year. We're a bit in limbo without a full time coach. Game plans and players could be significantly different next year. But at the moment we're winning games we should win, and picking up a couple we weren't expected to win....why can't we enjoy that while it lasts.
whilst this is true, you cant have your cake and eat it too and those of us who have been saying that the fixture has more to do with the reason behind our turnaround than the coach change can continue to do so irrespective of the scoreboard.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on July 06, 2026, 08:24:01 am
I get that folks aren't entirely happy with the way things have panned out with regard to the coaching situation. But it comes across as pretty petty that we're going out of our way to point out the quality of opposition. It's not a state secret.
We're well aware of who we've beaten, and who we face, and the difficulty in maintaining a winning streak. If we're crediting Voss with some influence in the 'wins' does that contribution get abandoned if things go pear shaped. No, it's all part of the journey and progress.
Teams have ebbs and flows through a season. Injuries sometimes (often) play a part in results. Had we had Weitering and Dean yesterday the result may have been more clear cut. By the same token we've probably had a win or two when the opposition have had players out.
The other bit of nonsense is this "Sack coach" rubbish that gets a mention whenever a team gets a run on. It was funny the first time. It's ridiculous now. We were getting runs against us nearly every week It's happening far less now.
Very few (almost none) of us think we have a flag side. Even a top 6-8 side. We're a middle of the road side. That's reflected in our results.
Most have acknolwedged Voss's contribution...but he has a new job now. It's time to let it go. I'd like to see us make finals but I really won't be too distressed if it doesn't happen this year. We're a bit in limbo without a full time coach. Game plans and players could be significantly different next year. But at the moment we're winning games we should win, and picking up a couple we weren't expected to win....why can't we enjoy that while it lasts.
whilst this is true, you cant have your cake and eat it too and those of us who have been saying that the fixture has more to do with the reason behind our turnaround than the coach change can continue to do so irrespective of the scoreboard.
That probably speaks to a rigid thinking on both sides. Making it about one factor and ignoring others is why we have this back and forth argument. The fact that we're winning games now and weren't winning them before is probably a bit more complicated than the fixture is easy. We're a middle of the road team. At the moment we're beating those around us, and below us. We will see how we go when we start to play a few teams above us.
You see, the thing is we played a lot of games in the first half of this year where we played dominant football but still didn't get the win. We were prone to lapses that we seemed unable to reverse. We should probably have won a few more of those.. But there seems to be this tendency to want to talk us down rather than embracing the fact that we're actually putting wins on the board.
We're not a vastly different side to when we were losing and the fixture probably has a bit to do with that. We'll probably have a bit of a slump when we drop a couple of games in a row in the next few weeks. But if nothing else the playing group has learnt what it feels like to win. That's no longer a foreign feeling. And for our young players that's something invaluable. Jagga now knows the difference. That's something to celebrate...not downplay because of a fixture.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: madbluboy on July 06, 2026, 08:36:24 am
It will sort itself out now Lods.
All our questions will be answered.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on July 06, 2026, 08:45:58 am
That's the thing though. I don't have any questions. I'm pretty comfortable in knowing exactly where we sit. About the same as last year....give or take a spot or two, or a win or two. ;)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 06, 2026, 11:17:37 am
Just marginally better last night - we had to overcome a few things this time had no weitering lost dean late and then Young during the game. umps handled them a few goals very late. Round 1 we only won because Lynch kicked 2-7.
‘All the easy teams are gone’. im assuming you are referring to Ess and Rich only as GWS away Port Away, Geelong and Bulldogs are not easy for a mid teir team.
Ladder and record speaks for itself.
Our record in 2026 vs....
Top 6 teams 0-5
Bottom 4 teams 5-0
Middle 7 teams 3-3
Overall 8-8.
Tell me again about how its all about the coach.
Edited. Fixed error in formula
1-8 Voss
7-0 Fraser
You can spin it all you want but scoreboard doesn't lie
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: shawny on July 06, 2026, 01:26:39 pm
Voss was a champion player but never had it as a coach. Apart from one season in his decade of coaching he failed to deliver with the lists he had. To see first hand the change the minute he left ends the discussion.
Fraser may or may not be the right selection but one thing is for certain Voss wasn't!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Shakin77 on July 06, 2026, 01:44:14 pm
All the easy teams are gone now the real stuff begins.
I thought we were better last night than round 1.
Round 1: Disposal count pretty level and we lost the inside 50 count by 16. Round 17: 60+ in Disposals. Inside 50's level.
Round 1 I thought we were very lucky to have won it. This time I thought we should have been further in front, especially in the 2nd quarter and we would have been very unlucky to lose it.
Both poor performances, however.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: madbluboy on July 06, 2026, 01:51:07 pm
Voss was a champion player but never had it as a coach. Apart from one season in his decade of coaching he failed to deliver with the lists he had. To see first hand the change the minute he left ends the discussion.
Fraser may or may not be the right selection but one thing is for certain Voss wasn't!
Don't be afraid Shawny? Back yourself 7-0, you're on fire! We're the team that never lets you down. I hope you're right and unlike you I will admit I was wrong.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: laj on July 06, 2026, 01:55:56 pm
Voss was a champion player but never had it as a coach. Apart from one season in his decade of coaching he failed to deliver with the lists he had. To see first hand the change the minute he left ends the discussion.
Fraser may or may not be the right selection but one thing is for certain Voss wasn't!
Win one more game and we equal or 2025 result with 9 wins.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: laj on July 06, 2026, 01:56:48 pm
Voss was a champion player but never had it as a coach. Apart from one season in his decade of coaching he failed to deliver with the lists he had. To see first hand the change the minute he left ends the discussion.
Fraser may or may not be the right selection but one thing is for certain Voss wasn't!
Don't be afraid Shawny? Back yourself 7-0, you're on fire! We're the team that never lets you down. I hope you're right and unlike you I will admit I was wrong.
We're still waiting.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: madbluboy on July 06, 2026, 02:17:08 pm
Take care of the sides we lost to first.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: tonyo on July 06, 2026, 02:20:11 pm
We should have hit time-on in the last quarter with a 30 point lead, then the last 2 minutes is no longer a raffle.
Have to learn to take the chances that are offered and bury teams, and do so from the first bounce.
This game was so similar to the Essendon one - we didn't turn up to start either of them, and found ourselves 3 goals down against cellar-dwellers. So you end up playing a game in 3 quarters, with a 3-goal penalty. That makes both wins look better than the score suggests.
My worry is we cannot play the MCG all that well.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on July 06, 2026, 02:41:14 pm
Have to learn to take the chances that are offered and bury teams, and do so from the first bounce.
Absolutely, until we see this mentality we have no real hope of success.
We have to hate surrendering even a point!
I thought the other thing that hurt us last weekend was Young getting injured, he was doing OK on the sniper, and Gov was a mobile focus in F50, then it all got turned over and things headed south.
I suppose Young is a compulsory out this week, so hopefully Weiters is an in.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Shakin77 on July 06, 2026, 02:47:21 pm
I don't think it's fair to suggest that the turnaround in form is due mainly to the fixture. Essendon, Richmond and West Coast we would have all started favorites for however the Wins against Geelong, Bulldogs, Port Adelaide (Away) and GWS (Away) are a significant change in fortunes.
"Carlton on track at round 9 to be one of the worst pressure rating teams on record..."
Our pressure and match day energy regardless of the opponent which requires no talent have been remarkably better under Fraser than Voss.
https://x.com/RileyBev/status/2051182183340253489 "Carlton's pressure rating of 152 against St Kilda was its lowest of the season, but that's no surprise. The Blues are the only team in the AFL yet to have a single game this year where they've recorded a higher pressure rating than their opposition."
Fraser has put Hewett back into the middle and Cerra (53% CBA's) on the Wing (0 CBA's). Credit too him I didn't think that Cerra could play Wing. Jagga is up 15% CBA's. McKay into the middle has turned his season around and Fraser has used Ainsworth in the middle to pinch hit up to 15%.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on July 06, 2026, 02:52:29 pm
@Shakin77 Hoyne reported positive shifts in many of the metrics started 2 or 3 weeks before Voss finished, take the opinions offered by the media with a grain of salt.
I can't see a major change in our game plan other than the fact we now stick to it for 4-Qtrs, and that would be a 33% uptick.
Except over the last two weeks I've noticed us starting to slide back a little bit in a couple of metrics. Someone mentioned it here, we seem to be better against the better sides, and we've just played two craps teams in the last 3 rounds.
Which makes any Fox Footy report weird, they must be 2 weeks behind in the stats, or maybe the rest of the competition is on the slide and we are holding stable as I don't look at every club.
Fraser has put Hewett back into the middle and Cerra (53% CBA's) on the Wing (0 CBA's). Credit too him I didn't think that Cerra could play Wing. Jagga is up 15% CBA's. McKay into the middle has turned his season around and Fraser has used Ainsworth in the middle to pinch hit up to 15%.
And be careful repeating this rubbish, Hewett was back in the midfield the week before Voss left, McKay had been relief rucking at times most of the season but barely got a tap before his week off, and Cerra was in the Midfield because Hewett was in the maggos, leaving Lord and Smith to share the wing in the Mid rotation.
The commentators happily rewrite history, but they watch our games far less than we do! ;)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 06, 2026, 02:58:04 pm
We have done very well to turn around 8-8, pity our % is not crash hot. Season Starts again as far as I'm concerned, we have an opportunity to take some more decent scalps. It will be a test of how we handle pressure and see if anything has changed in that department.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on July 06, 2026, 02:58:34 pm
Can we resize that image. :D
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: DJC on July 06, 2026, 03:05:20 pm
Was anyone else’s heart in their mouth when Brodie Kemp grabbed for his ankle after marking?
Fortunately he had just shed a boot 😎
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Shakin77 on July 06, 2026, 03:20:00 pm
And be careful repeating this rubbish, Hewett was back in the midfield the week before Voss left, McKay had been relief rucking at times most of the season but barely got a tap before his week off, and Cerra was in the Midfield because Hewett was in the maggos, leaving Lord and Smith to share the wing in the Mid rotation.
The commentators happily rewrite history, but they watch our games far less than we do! ;)
So 1 game under Voss or 12.5% of Games. Under Fraser 7 for 7 or .... You guessed it 100%
So to suggest that McKay rucked under Voss all season isn't correct. It was a combo of O'Keefe and Young,
With Hewett until Round 9 Voss only played all three of Cripps, Hewett and Cerra in the same side and that was Round 4. With Cerra back he dropped Hewett. They did all play in Round 9 against the Lions however Cerra still had CBA's and not the wing role under Fraser.
They have all played together in the same side since. 7 for Fraser. 2 for Voss.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: DJC on July 06, 2026, 03:31:42 pm
I’m still trying to make sense of the Hollands for Acres change 🤔
The best I can come up with is that we knew that Richmond would try to exploit their advantage in foot speed and Ollie was meant to help counter that.
Acres is a plodder but he makes up for that with his endurance and anticipation. That enables him to get to contests and, unlike Ollie, he usually has an impact when he gets there.
Ollie wasn’t our worst player by a long shot, but we wouldn’t have missed him if he wasn’t in the team. Hopefully, he’ll be better for the run but I suspect that the Hawks will be happier to match up against Ollie than the Sheriff.
Not playing at the weekend most likely means that Acres will be in the Magoos.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Blue Moon on July 06, 2026, 04:49:15 pm
I thought our leaders were down, as well as the middle management players like, Newman, Hayward, Florent, Ainsworth and Kemp. I don't think they played bad it was just that they didn't impact as much as previous. I think Richmond has a lot of good players and I think they really believe they can beat us because of last season so they lift against us. So while I think our endeavour was good, our application was off, especially when Young went down, this seemed to unbalance the team. The missed free kick for McKay was a howler but didn't cost us, Walsh was stupid to give his free kick just before quarter time, but it should have been reversed, the free against Haynes wasn't bad but it should have been reviewed and over turned. They also missed a number of shots on goal but we missed more. We did get a lot of numbers around the ball, especially after quarter time, and our disposal has improved since the start of the year, but our decision making going into the F50 still needs to improve. All these things we will need to do next week.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on July 06, 2026, 05:08:19 pm
We should have hit time-on in the last quarter with a 30 point lead, then the last 2 minutes is no longer a raffle.
Have to learn to take the chances that are offered and bury teams, and do so from the first bounce.
This game was so similar to the Essendon one - we didn't turn up to start either of them, and found ourselves 3 goals down against cellar-dwellers. So you end up playing a game in 3 quarters, with a 3-goal penalty. That makes both wins look better than the score suggests.
My worry is we cannot play the MCG all that well.
Geelong would disagree.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: shawny on July 06, 2026, 06:57:21 pm
Voss was a champion player but never had it as a coach. Apart from one season in his decade of coaching he failed to deliver with the lists he had. To see first hand the change the minute he left ends the discussion.
Fraser may or may not be the right selection but one thing is for certain Voss wasn't!
Don't be afraid Shawny? Back yourself 7-0, you're on fire! We're the team that never lets you down. I hope you're right and unlike you I will admit I was wrong.
Mate im one on here that will openly admit if im wrong.
I not one to keep flogging a dead horse like others.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 06, 2026, 07:08:05 pm
Don't be afraid Shawny? Back yourself 7-0, you're on fire! We're the team that never lets you down. I hope you're right and unlike you I will admit I was wrong.
Mate im one on here that will openly admit if im wrong.
I not one to keep flogging a dead horse like others.
Respectfully, Depends which horse youre on Shawny.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on July 06, 2026, 07:10:59 pm
We've got enough dead horses to start a glue factory. ;) :D
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: tex on July 06, 2026, 07:26:24 pm
You know, if we won Melbourne game and then North Melbourne, we’d be 40 points and top 8 If we won the saints game we’d be 3rd…
Funny old season.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: tonyo on July 06, 2026, 11:14:40 pm
You know, if we won Melbourne game and then North Melbourne, we’d be 40 points and top 8 If we won the saints game we’d be 3rd…
Funny old season.
Not to mention the Collingwood 4 points we threw away.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: PaulP on July 07, 2026, 12:10:04 pm
Coaches' votes :
10 George Hewett (CARL) 8 Jagga Smith (CARL) 5 Tim Taranto (RICH) 3 Seth Campbell (RICH) 2 Adam Cerra (CARL) 1 Francis Evans (CARL) 1 Patrick Cripps (CARL)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: kruddler on July 07, 2026, 06:19:47 pm
I don't think it's fair to suggest that the turnaround in form is due mainly to the fixture. Essendon, Richmond and West Coast we would have all started favorites for however the Wins against Geelong, Bulldogs, Port Adelaide (Away) and GWS (Away) are a significant change in fortunes.
"Carlton on track at round 9 to be one of the worst pressure rating teams on record..."
Our pressure and match day energy regardless of the opponent which requires no talent have been remarkably better under Fraser than Voss.
https://x.com/RileyBev/status/2051182183340253489 "Carlton's pressure rating of 152 against St Kilda was its lowest of the season, but that's no surprise. The Blues are the only team in the AFL yet to have a single game this year where they've recorded a higher pressure rating than their opposition."
Fraser has put Hewett back into the middle and Cerra (53% CBA's) on the Wing (0 CBA's). Credit too him I didn't think that Cerra could play Wing. Jagga is up 15% CBA's. McKay into the middle has turned his season around and Fraser has used Ainsworth in the middle to pinch hit up to 15%.
Couple things.
1. Its not MAINLY due to fixture it follows it pretty spot on. How many bottom 4 teams did Vossy lose too? How many top 6 teams has Fraser beaten? The difference is in the grey area in the middle....and with that....
2. The tide started to turn before that. Vossy, Fraser, Wright, Davies all said they changed some things a few weeks before Vossy left and it was evident that it was paying off in the Brisbane game. Numerous stats showed this at the time. The tide had started to turn.
3. Form of certain players who were under an injury cloud early are now playing fit...... Patrick Cripps - 2026 AFLCA Coaches Votes (Up to Round 17)
Patrick Cripps - 2026 AFLCA Coaches Votes (Up to Round 17)
Opening Round vs Sydney Swans: 0 votes Round 1 vs Richmond: 6 votes Round 2 vs Hawthorn: 0 votes Round 3 vs Melbourne: 0 votes Round 4 vs North Melbourne: 0 votes Round 5 vs Adelaide: 0 votes Round 6 vs Collingwood: 0 votes Round 7 vs St Kilda: 0 votes Round 8 vs Fremantle: 0 votes Round 9 vs Brisbane Lions: 6 votes Round 10 vs Western Bulldogs: 9 votes Round 11 vs Port Adelaide: 10 votes Round 12 vs Geelong Cats: 10 votes Round 13 vs Essendon: 4 votes Round 14 vs BYE: -- Round 15 vs GWS Giants: 8 votes Round 16 vs West Coast Eagles: 9 votes Round 17 vs Richmond: 1 vote
Total 2026 Tally: 59 votes
*Note: The statistical shift in his year since the mid-season coaching change is incredible. He polled just 12 votes across his first 9 matches, but has exploded with 47 out of a possible 70 maximum votes in the 7 games since Josh Fraser took over.*
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on July 08, 2026, 12:44:41 am
Don't be surprised if Cripps does better than expected on Brownlow night!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 08, 2026, 11:34:15 am
Don't be surprised if Cripps does better than expected on Brownlow night!
Right now the last thing on Crippa's mind would be individual accolades. We should all follow suit.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Shakin77 on July 08, 2026, 11:49:39 am
Regarding Cripps, I was one of those who thought he was carrying an injury earlier in the season. However, as the club has never confirmed any current or previous injury, it's difficult to know if there was one, when it occurred, or how much it was affecting his performances. By the same token, it's also hard to suggest that Cripps is suddenly 100% injury-free simply because Michael Voss has departed. Without any information from the club, that's just speculation.
There have, however, been a number of changes under Josh Fraser that may have contributed to Cripps' improved performances.
Lower contested game
Carlton's game style has shifted significantly.
"Carlton’s strengths under Voss, contest and clearance, remain, but they are less reliant on these areas. Their contested possession rate is down from 37.3 per cent and sixth in Voss’s last five games to 32.8 per cent and 17th under Fraser. It’s a style more in keeping with how football is played in 2026."
A less contest-heavy game could reduce the physical toll on Cripps over four quarters. If he's not repeatedly crashing into stoppages, it makes sense that he'd have more energy and explosiveness around the ground.
It's also worth considering whether the greater midfield support from players like Hewett, Smith and Ainsworth has allowed Cripps to be more selective with his contests rather than carrying such a heavy workload himself.
Training standards
Players have also spoken publicly about Fraser's increased focus on fundamentals and raising training standards.
Interestingly, they've also said training sessions have become less physically demanding. Despite that, Carlton's match-day pressure has actually increased, and the group appears to have more energy late in games.
If players are fresher because they're not being physically taxed as heavily during the week, that could certainly benefit someone like Cripps. It's also possible that this is a broader team effect rather than something specific to the captain.
Ultimately, there are several plausible reasons for Cripps' resurgence, but without confirmation from the club about his physical condition, it's impossible to attribute it solely to a coaching change. The shift in game style, increased midfield support, and altered training approach all appear just as likely to have played a role.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: kruddler on July 08, 2026, 02:12:47 pm
1. Less reliant on contested ball......because the opposition are worse and offer less resistance and are allowing us to do as we please more. 2. Training standards lifted....interesting considering that was something that Voss was VERY strong on in his Damo interview about introducing that to the club and being something he is proud of.
As mentioned previously, game plan shift was highlighted 2-3 weeks before Voss' exit. Confirmed by Voss, Fraser, Wright and Davies (and maybe Priestly too)
You can see from our performance, Cripps performance and by those mentioned above that this became evident in the Brisbane game.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 08, 2026, 02:37:45 pm
1. Less reliant on contested ball......because the opposition are worse and offer less resistance and are allowing us to do as we please more. 2. Training standards lifted....interesting considering that was something that Voss was VERY strong on in his Damo interview about introducing that to the club and being something he is proud of.
As mentioned previously, game plan shift was highlighted 2-3 weeks before Voss' exit. Confirmed by Voss, Fraser, Wright and Davies (and maybe Priestly too)
You can see from our performance, Cripps performance and by those mentioned above that this became evident in the Brisbane game.
A lot of fecking around with the ball, way more disposals than the Tigers, beat them in the clearances/stoppages easily but for only 49 entries only....Tigers had 49 entries also but their I50 work was less efficient. We are moving the ball better and retaining possession(less turnovers) but a lot of it is going nowhere( across the ground/backwards) and we dont score enough for the amount of ball we have. Vs Essendon we lost the ruck/contested ball/clearances but were saved by Essendons poor i50 work(39% efficient) to our i50(49%) which was poor also but not as bad....
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Shakin77 on July 08, 2026, 03:29:15 pm
So there is no chance that any changes Fraser has made has had a positive impact on Cripps and the Side.
It's all fixture and changes made 3 weeks before Voss left?
Given that: Cerra CBA's Voss R0 to R5: 53% Voss's Last 3: 40% Under Fraser: 4%
Smith CBA's Voss R0 to R5: 46% Voss's Last 3: 29% Under Fraser: 56%
McKay CBA's Voss R0 to R5: 0% Voss's Last 3: 11.5% (Brisbane Game only) Under Fraser: 24%
Hewett CBA's Voss R0 to R5: 66% Voss's Last 3: 43% Under Fraser: 68%
Even if you concede the Cerra move to the Wing and only that, you have to give some credit (however small) to a change in game style after Voss left.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: kruddler on July 08, 2026, 03:46:44 pm
Cmon Shakin, if it was as simple as 1 thing, then Voss and the club is an idiot.
But those who are anti-voss are making it out as if there was only 1 change that 'solved' everything, Fraser. Surely you can see that is not true.
Fixture, IMO, is the most important factor. Cripps' form is not a coincidence. Our best 2 games under voss was the 2 games Cripps got votes....and he has votes in every game since.
So ignoring those 2 things, which Fraser boosters continue to do, is my gripe. Similarly, people gave Fraser credit for bringing George back, playing Wilson, playing Harry in the ruck.....all occured before he took over.
Credit where credit is due, sure. I've got no issue with Fraser. I've got issues with people proclaiming he can walk on water and has the midas touch.
In terms of your CBA's, can you include the figures for Lord?
IMO thats been a huge difference. I copped some flack for questioning his long term future and him being too similar to our better mids. Initially i think he was playing a wing role that Cerra took over. He was playing midfield when we gave him a chance to lock it down with George out of the side. Eventually, Lord was forced out of the side through injury and hasn't (as yet) returned to the seniors, despite going ok in the 2's.
There is a lot of cause and effect, and correlation, and people not understanding the difference.
Just looking at Jagga for an example, he started in the midfield. Then plenty were suggested he looked tired and sore and might need a run in the 2's. Was moved out of the guts at the same time. Got himself back up to speed and was moved back in as a result. Is that Fraser being a genuis? Is it Voss looking after his young player so he doesn't break him??
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: PaulP on July 08, 2026, 04:03:42 pm
The evolution in game plan started in pre season. This was stated at the time, and has therefore been public knowledge for months. As the losses and second half fade outs mounted, so did the pressure on Voss and the players. Throw in the Elijah saga, the idiot Gorringe and his mate Docherty, the sloppy-skills-at-training video, players being constantly harassed, the swirling media speculation and pile on............
You won't be getting the best out of your coaches and players under such circumstances.
Fraser the Amazer has absolutely exceeded expectations and knocked it out of the park, but it's not a tabula rasa. Fraser has added to the good work Voss started, and is doing it without all the noise and nonsense.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on July 08, 2026, 04:12:53 pm
It's completely bogus claim, that can only be swallowed by either those who wish to believe or those who haven't been bothered to watch. I'm not even sure where the idea comes from, the power of suggestion maybe?
Our game plan is unchanged, we've been slowly getting better at executing it all season, perforated by some various roadblocks like injuries and form lines. We probably went very close to defeating the Lions in Brisbane, if not for 5 or 10 minutes of lapse, even Fagan claimed they were lucky. Cripps busted his guts trying to get the team to lift, but the problems never really been Cripps or Walsh, it's been those around them leaving the heavy lifting to too few. We had a team built on contested ball winners running around like accumulators.
If looks to me like Voss getting the flick was just enough of a rocket to motivate the players to put in 24x7. After all, given Fraser won't be coach they are almost all 100% insecure at this very moment, nobody is locked in as far as I can tell, realistic offers will be considered for all, and then we'll be into the rebuild Mk: VI. I wonder who'll be saved?
On the media videos, cherry-picking the best and worst case scenarios to suit an agenda or assertions is nothing more or less than deliberately misleading. In reality for most games this season we'd breakdown on the 3rd or 4th disposal / contest because our execution in either disposal or tackling sucked. How many times did you see an opponent stroll through a Carlton tackle in the first half of this season? They could have shown a hundred of those videos, instead they show the video that is contest free. That was disheartening, and players would drop their head and wouldn't commit, they started guarding grass which makes it even worse under the current rules, they aren't brain surgeons.
Just a bit later in the season, the errors start to diminish and the players persist, all of a sudden the media moguls claim it's a miracle, a miracle of eliminating the error every 3rd or 4th disposal / contest. We can call it "The miracle of the skills!" or "The miracle of the effort!"
btw., How much of the dropping of Hewett contributed to that new found player motivation, did someone pull just the right lever?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: DJC on July 08, 2026, 05:43:12 pm
I think that Vossy himself identified a critical factor; he felt the players needed a circuit breaker and his resignation provided it.
Of course there are positional changes, selection changes, more input from the coach during warm up drills at training, etc, but don't downplay what's going on between the ears.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Shakin77 on July 09, 2026, 05:37:10 pm
Cmon Shakin, if it was as simple as 1 thing, then Voss and the club is an idiot.
But those who are anti-voss are making it out as if there was only 1 change that 'solved' everything, Fraser. Surely you can see that is not true.
Fixture, IMO, is the most important factor. Cripps' form is not a coincidence. Our best 2 games under voss was the 2 games Cripps got votes....and he has votes in every game since.
So ignoring those 2 things, which Fraser boosters continue to do, is my gripe. Similarly, people gave Fraser credit for bringing George back, playing Wilson, playing Harry in the ruck.....all occured before he took over.
Credit where credit is due, sure. I've got no issue with Fraser. I've got issues with people proclaiming he can walk on water and has the midas touch.
In terms of your CBA's, can you include the figures for Lord?
IMO thats been a huge difference. I copped some flack for questioning his long term future and him being too similar to our better mids. Initially i think he was playing a wing role that Cerra took over. He was playing midfield when we gave him a chance to lock it down with George out of the side. Eventually, Lord was forced out of the side through injury and hasn't (as yet) returned to the seniors, despite going ok in the 2's.
There is a lot of cause and effect, and correlation, and people not understanding the difference.
Just looking at Jagga for an example, he started in the midfield. Then plenty were suggested he looked tired and sore and might need a run in the 2's. Was moved out of the guts at the same time. Got himself back up to speed and was moved back in as a result. Is that Fraser being a genuis? Is it Voss looking after his young player so he doesn't break him??
You've got me wrong.
I actually thought we were doing a lot right under Michael Voss, and that our results were often a poor reflection of where we were as a football club.
The frustration was that under Voss we could play brilliant football for a half, then follow it up with football that looked like Under 12s at Diamond Creek.
Unfortunately, I think Voss will be remembered as the coach who couldn't stop momentum swings. This wasn't just a three-game issue or even a one-season issue. You said it yourself when you told your son to pick any score worm from the last 24 months—you'll almost always find a Voss-coached Carlton side conceding multiple unanswered goals.
Our worst performances this season highlighted that perfectly:
Second half vs Sydney Second half vs Richmond (Round 1) Second half vs Melbourne Last quarter vs North Melbourne Second half vs St Kilda Round 13 vs Essendon Round 17 vs Richmond
We all knew this was the issue that had to be fixed. We had an entire pre-season to address it, only to dish up the same thing again and again. Fast starts, no finish.
So now we're meant to believe we suddenly flicked a switch over the last three games and solved it?
I agree Voss leaving acted as a circuit breaker, but history tells us these sugar hits can be short-lived.
I liked Voss as a communicator and a leader. Where I was less convinced was his tactical coaching. Too often he struggled to stop opposition momentum or adjust during games, and I thought he was regularly beaten in the coaches' box. I was hoping the club would bring in someone like Adam Simpson to complement him with that tactical layer, but it never really happened.
Now, the wins over Geelong, the Western Bulldogs, plus away victories against Port Adelaide and GWS are all quality wins. They were games we weren't expected to win. The match committee deserves plenty of credit, particularly for responding when both Geelong and GWS got on top after we'd built healthy leads. Those are exactly the sort of games we would have lost previously.
Was the old game plan simply too taxing? Why couldn't we consistently run games out under Voss?
Under Josh Fraser we're clearly playing differently. We're less contest-focused, we retain possession more, and we're generating more metres gained by both hand and foot. Whether people think the changes are significant or subtle doesn't really matter—the numbers are what they are. They're not made up to annoy LP.
The game style has changed.
Harry McKay is probably the best example. If you're Michael Voss, you'd be wondering where this version of Harry has come from. After nine rounds, his season looked like it was heading towards "trade him for a late second-round pick." Since then, he's completely turned it around. Is it confidence? A different role? Better ball movement? Probably a combination of all three. He's just one example of several small changes that seem to have injected more energy into the side and allowed us to apply pressure for longer.
Now, could it simply be that:
George Hewett was dropped and got the kick up the backside he needed? Patrick Cripps is finally fully fit? The fixture has been favourable, with Richmond, Essendon and West Coast all struggling? Cerra moving to the wing, along with the Ainsworth and Smith changes, were already Voss ideas?
Absolutely. All of those factors have played a part.
I'm somewhere in the middle.
But to suggest there have been no changes in the way we're playing, or that the game style is exactly the same, is ridiculous in my opinion. Whether those changes are subtle or significant is open for debate, but pretending they don't exist ignores what we're seeing on the field and what the statistics are telling us.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Shakin77 on July 09, 2026, 05:38:10 pm
Lord CBA's Voss R0 to R5: 13% Voss's Last 3: 61% Under Fraser: 0%
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Sexybronco on July 09, 2026, 06:18:39 pm
Back to the game, 1 change for this week: In: Dean Out: Young (inj)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on July 09, 2026, 06:22:32 pm
Cmon Shakin, if it was as simple as 1 thing, then Voss and the club is an idiot.
But those who are anti-voss are making it out as if there was only 1 change that 'solved' everything, Fraser. Surely you can see that is not true.
Fixture, IMO, is the most important factor. Cripps' form is not a coincidence. Our best 2 games under voss was the 2 games Cripps got votes....and he has votes in every game since.
So ignoring those 2 things, which Fraser boosters continue to do, is my gripe. Similarly, people gave Fraser credit for bringing George back, playing Wilson, playing Harry in the ruck.....all occured before he took over.
Credit where credit is due, sure. I've got no issue with Fraser. I've got issues with people proclaiming he can walk on water and has the midas touch.
In terms of your CBA's, can you include the figures for Lord?
IMO thats been a huge difference. I copped some flack for questioning his long term future and him being too similar to our better mids. Initially i think he was playing a wing role that Cerra took over. He was playing midfield when we gave him a chance to lock it down with George out of the side. Eventually, Lord was forced out of the side through injury and hasn't (as yet) returned to the seniors, despite going ok in the 2's.
There is a lot of cause and effect, and correlation, and people not understanding the difference.
Just looking at Jagga for an example, he started in the midfield. Then plenty were suggested he looked tired and sore and might need a run in the 2's. Was moved out of the guts at the same time. Got himself back up to speed and was moved back in as a result. Is that Fraser being a genuis? Is it Voss looking after his young player so he doesn't break him??
You've got me wrong.
I actually thought we were doing a lot right under Michael Voss, and that our results were often a poor reflection of where we were as a football club.
The frustration was that under Voss we could play brilliant football for a half, then follow it up with football that looked like Under 12s at Diamond Creek.
Unfortunately, I think Voss will be remembered as the coach who couldn't stop momentum swings. This wasn't just a three-game issue or even a one-season issue. You said it yourself when you told your son to pick any score worm from the last 24 months—you'll almost always find a Voss-coached Carlton side conceding multiple unanswered goals.
Our worst performances this season highlighted that perfectly:
Second half vs Sydney Second half vs Richmond (Round 1) Second half vs Melbourne Last quarter vs North Melbourne Second half vs St Kilda Round 13 vs Essendon Round 17 vs Richmond
We all knew this was the issue that had to be fixed. We had an entire pre-season to address it, only to dish up the same thing again and again. Fast starts, no finish.
So now we're meant to believe we suddenly flicked a switch over the last three games and solved it?
I agree Voss leaving acted as a circuit breaker, but history tells us these sugar hits can be short-lived.
I liked Voss as a communicator and a leader. Where I was less convinced was his tactical coaching. Too often he struggled to stop opposition momentum or adjust during games, and I thought he was regularly beaten in the coaches' box. I was hoping the club would bring in someone like Adam Simpson to complement him with that tactical layer, but it never really happened.
Now, the wins over Geelong, the Western Bulldogs, plus away victories against Port Adelaide and GWS are all quality wins. They were games we weren't expected to win. The match committee deserves plenty of credit, particularly for responding when both Geelong and GWS got on top after we'd built healthy leads. Those are exactly the sort of games we would have lost previously.
Was the old game plan simply too taxing? Why couldn't we consistently run games out under Voss?
Under Josh Fraser we're clearly playing differently. We're less contest-focused, we retain possession more, and we're generating more metres gained by both hand and foot. Whether people think the changes are significant or subtle doesn't really matter—the numbers are what they are. They're not made up to annoy LP.
The game style has changed.
Harry McKay is probably the best example. If you're Michael Voss, you'd be wondering where this version of Harry has come from. After nine rounds, his season looked like it was heading towards "trade him for a late second-round pick." Since then, he's completely turned it around. Is it confidence? A different role? Better ball movement? Probably a combination of all three. He's just one example of several small changes that seem to have injected more energy into the side and allowed us to apply pressure for longer.
Now, could it simply be that:
George Hewett was dropped and got the kick up the backside he needed? Patrick Cripps is finally fully fit? The fixture has been favourable, with Richmond, Essendon and West Coast all struggling? Cerra moving to the wing, along with the Ainsworth and Smith changes, were already Voss ideas?
Absolutely. All of those factors have played a part.
I'm somewhere in the middle.
But to suggest there have been no changes in the way we're playing, or that the game style is exactly the same, is ridiculous in my opinion. Whether those changes are subtle or significant is open for debate, but pretending they don't exist ignores what we're seeing on the field and what the statistics are telling us.
Couple things....
1. re Harry....biggest change was getting moved into 2nd ruck roll. The same thing that rejuvinated him previously. Same thing plenty on here were suggesting happen. Harry seems to get in his own head when left to shiver up forward. Keeping him in the contest up the ground as a ruck does him the world of good. Yes, that (re)started under Voss
2. Are we meant to believe 3 weeks flicked a switch? Yes. It was said by every man and his dog, including Voss, Fraser, Wright and Davies....and the players. This is not my words, this has come from the club. You don't want to believe, nothing i can do to change your mind.
Nobody is doubted there was problems. Nobody is doubted there were fadeouts. The devil is in the detail as to when things changed. Plenty of people were absolutely wrapped with our performance against the lions and saying that should be the new standard......it has been. Vossy's timing couldn't have been worse, announcing his departure to the club before the game that turned our season around.
Again, i want to stress that i've got no issue with Fraser as coach.
My eagerness to back up Voss and explain our season turnaround is to highlight that it is 100% possible that our turnaround is not because of Fraser. Appointing Fraser (like Teague before him) simply because results improved in the meantime could actually hurt the club long term.
I've had long discussions with Lods about 'the sky is falling' comments in regards to this years expectations. That always came with the - I expect results to improve by staying the course, its just a matter of when. I think it'll be a year, perhaps 2, but it may turn sooner Does that mean we've turned the corner already? No, but there are a few things that have fast tracked that and exceeded everyones expectations. Namely Jagga and Dean. Hands up anyone who thought they would be 2 of the top 3 in the rising star betting at this stage? They have exceeded all expectations and definitely fast tracking this turnaround.
Ultimately my argument is this. Don't get sucked into W/L results and appoint Fraser without going through a proper process and analysing the situation and the resons for the turnaround. Doing so is wrong. That doesn't mean Fraser isn't the best......just don't use the W/L column as justification.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: madbluboy on July 09, 2026, 07:15:34 pm
I predicted us to be bottom 4 and was happy that we were competitive even when we were 1-8.
Obviously happy with the "turn around" but not getting carried away until we either win this week or next.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: kruddler on July 09, 2026, 07:19:52 pm
I predicted us to be bottom 4 and was happy that we were competitive even when we were 1-8.
Obviously happy with the "turn around" but not getting carried away until we either win this week or next.
This week, sure. Next week, no. We almost beat them with 17 blokes....i expect to win that this time with 18.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on July 09, 2026, 07:40:34 pm
With regards to the pre-season expectations (and discussions) If we match our last season tally of 9 wins or go better. I wont be doing the I told you so's Let's call it a draw.
It's a pretty convoluted sort of season. We've played some excellent football when we've lost...and played some ordinary football when we've won.
I actually think the rest of the year is going to be pretty tough. I expect no more than we'll end up about the same as last year in terms of wins (maybe one or two more) or ladder position (maybe one or two rungs lower).
The rest of the season will give us a true idea of where we sit going into 2027.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Shakin77 on July 09, 2026, 11:14:52 pm
2. Are we meant to believe 3 weeks flicked a switch? Yes. It was said by every man and his dog, including Voss, Fraser, Wright and Davies....and the players. This is not my words, this has come from the club. You don't want to believe, nothing i can do to change your mind.
You have mentioned this a few times.
But I wouldnt hold any weight to these comments. I mean what do you expect these guys to say? They like Voss. The players liked Voss. He is a likeable person. The bloke has just been given the arse. Why would anyone speak poorly of him? For what purpose? He did some good things and lets celebrate them but lets not speak ill of the departed. It would be a poor look
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: kruddler on July 10, 2026, 07:58:46 am
2. Are we meant to believe 3 weeks flicked a switch? Yes. It was said by every man and his dog, including Voss, Fraser, Wright and Davies....and the players. This is not my words, this has come from the club. You don't want to believe, nothing i can do to change your mind.
You have mentioned this a few times.
But I wouldnt hold any weight to these comments. I mean what do you expect these guys to say? They like Voss. The players liked Voss. He is a likeable person. The bloke has just been given the arse. Why would anyone speak poorly of him? For what purpose? He did some good things and lets celebrate them but lets not speak ill of the departed. It would be a poor look
Ok so lets ride your train of thought and assume everyone complety made it up, ill even borrow LPs tin foil hat for the journey, how do you explain all the statiatical evidence that was floated at the time showing a shift in oir game plan? Did we conspire with the media as well and champion data as well?
Failing all that, just have a look at the brisbane game and how we played.
I even made a comment the week after saying that i saw no difference from the brisbane game to the dogs game apart from the opposition and others agreed.
But if you wanna put it all down to fraser and the circuit breaker, be my guest, i wont be agreeing with you. Ill back the clubs comments, the statistical evidence and my own eyes instead.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on July 10, 2026, 08:10:39 am
Often the movement of one player depends on the form of another, just one player rising or falling can have a cascading effect.
Fans tend to look at the end result and identify it as the cause, but often the cause is something that happened much earlier in the background. An example hypothesis, maybe it was shifts in the form of McGovern, Kemp, Dean and Newman, and maybe Kemp and McGovern improving in F50, is caused by the contribution and eventual integration of Hayward, Florent, Evans and Ainsworth. That ultimately enable McKay to spend more time in the ruck, a cascade of small steps leads to a better overall outcome. I'd assert my hypothesis is much closer to reality than the "Fraser did it!" crew!
It's not lost on me that earlier in the season a lot of fans on here declared Hayward, Ainsworth and Florent a bust, many of the same critics are now Fraser boosters. Fans that cited poor disposal, bad decision making, errors, etc., etc., etc. as the reason for a bust. But it was obvious to anyone watching they were all winning plenty of footy, doing so surrounded by what at AFL standard was effectively a crew of strangers, a new team! Halfway through the season, it's all changed, and apparently "Fraser did it!"
It's not the single big miracle move that fans cling to, they see that after the fact, it's a bunch of small incremental changes over weeks that leads to the ultimate outcome.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Sexybronco on July 10, 2026, 09:16:20 am
But I wouldnt hold any weight to these comments. I mean what do you expect these guys to say? They like Voss. The players liked Voss. He is a likeable person. The bloke has just been given the arse. Why would anyone speak poorly of him? For what purpose? He did some good things and lets celebrate them but lets not speak ill of the departed. It would be a poor look
Ok so lets ride your train of thought and assume everyone complety made it up, ill even borrow LPs tin foil hat for the journey, how do you explain all the statiatical evidence that was floated at the time showing a shift in oir game plan? Did we conspire with the media as well and champion data as well?
Failing all that, just have a look at the brisbane game and how we played.
I even made a comment the week after saying that i saw no difference from the brisbane game to the dogs game apart from the opposition and others agreed.
But if you wanna put it all down to fraser and the circuit breaker, be my guest, i wont be agreeing with you. Ill back the clubs comments, the statistical evidence and my own eyes instead.
It's the respectful thing to do is to give Voss his credit and he deserves it. The bloke is a champion of the AFL. It would be a terrible look for anyone to say "oh yeah. Fraser has been amazing and the changes he has made since we got rid of Voss has turn this ship around"
Like I said Voss did a lot right (for a half a game anyway) and the Lions game was another example of that. We trailed by 49 points with the Lions in complete control. Watching the game, I can't help think they took the foot of the gas and their players joked about this after the game. Bit like the Demons and Hawks game of last week, just how much can you take from a half of football when the game has been pretty much put to bed. The Lions then went on to lose the next 3 including their worst performance of the season against GWS. I guess we can put down this decent result down to fixturing and catching the Lions in the flat period.?
Not sure of the statistical change either:
Brisbane Game: Metres Gained from Handball down 80. 88 up under Fraser. Contest Possessions: Down -6.25 Uncontested Marks: No Change. Up 22.32 with Fraser. Tackles: 38 (Season Low)
Flowers for Voss: D50ToScore: Round 0 to 5: 4.78 D50ToScore: Round 6 to 9: 15.97
I was never anti Voss. He deserves credit. As does Fraser for the changes that he has made.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on July 10, 2026, 12:13:55 pm
@Shakin77 Being respectful is too simplistic, there are many perspectives in this debate, people with widely varied belief systems that influence personal perception.
The players involved can't just "be respectful" at any cost, they have to be referentially consistent and grounded in reality with peers and associates. Sometimes that reality doesn't agree with 3rd party external observations, and it's too easy for 3rd parties to just write off the information shared because it doesn't fit a personal belief or persepctive.
The people directly involved have to have integrity and respect, to themselves, and to those around them, they can't just state whatever the like publicly it must be consistent with the group experience. If they don't, to peers they be categorised like Trump and nothing they say will ever be trusted.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on July 10, 2026, 12:46:11 pm
That's true... And yes, we'll all put our own bias and interpretation on what's said and why.
I'm guessing most, if not all of those that have spoken in support of Voss were genuine in their comments and there is a certain consistency of message. There would be no doubt the club would have spoken to players about that consistency of message to keep everyone on the same page. The club would want this change to be seen as smooth, without any major discontent and division of opinion. For all parties it would have been 'club before individual'...and that seems to have worked pretty well in the general football world.
If I was the boss of the club my advice to the players after the departure would have been along these lines.
"Michael Voss is a highly respected figure in the AFL world. He's done a good job in often trying circumstances however we've decided to go in a different direction. At the same time we need to acknowledge his contribution. If you're asked feel free to give your opinion, but keep in mind that any negative aspects you mention will probably reflect more on you than they will on Voss. Keep it positive both in terms of the stucture that Voss established and the continuity under Fraser."
And within that framework players would be free to put it in their own words reflecting the strength of their own feelings.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on July 10, 2026, 12:50:07 pm
I'm guessing most, if not all of those that have spoken in support of Voss were genuine in their comments and there is a certain consistency of message.
On this, I'm not so much a Voss booster but a bullsh1t debunker, and some people take that debunking as Voss boosting because it doesn't fit their beliefs. But beliefs need not be founded in reality.
No matter what the players are advised or instructed to say, it has to retain integrity because insiders know and are not guessing. Much like this forum, there will be those for and against on the inside as well, but a more informed for and against, and that is normal for any footy club suburban or AFL. If you broadcast bullsh1zen, your enemies within have you cornered.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: kruddler on July 10, 2026, 03:16:21 pm
Funnily enough, the above is accurate to me as well.
BS debunker.
Credit where credit is due, but don't try and rewrite history in the process.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on July 10, 2026, 08:19:01 pm
@kruddler Unlike that libellous Cripps, spreading his destabilising disinformation!
Quote
Speaking exclusively to news.com.au, Kayo SPORTS ambassador Cripps said: “A lot of the stuff we worked on in the pre-season and at the start of the year is starting to come out into our game now. There hasn’t been any massive, drastic shift but we’ve made a few little marginal tweaks.
“But I think the other thing you can’t underestimate is the confidence of the players as well. That has a big impact and sometimes you need a win or two to feel that.”
I can only assume he's got it in for Fraser!
But then again, Fraser has it in for Fraser apparently! ::)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: PaulP on July 10, 2026, 08:40:46 pm
The whole article referred to by LP is worth a read :
The whole article referred to by LP is worth a read : https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/carlton-captain-patrick-cripps-stuns-with-strong-michael-voss-comments-after-coachs-exit/news-story/d9497a95f46bf103f8b04c1c16725518
No chance that they'll read or accept it, The Wise Monkeys rule!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: kruddler on July 11, 2026, 07:58:57 am
For a club that is often pulling in 2 different directions, its ironic that the one time everyone appears to be on the same page and singing from the same hymn book has supporters crying 'conspiracy'.
Something that hasn't got enough attention is that at no point has anyone questioned the mood of the group or if the coach 'lost the players'. Thats gotta be a first as well.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Baggers on July 11, 2026, 09:51:51 am
The whole article referred to by LP is worth a read : https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/carlton-captain-patrick-cripps-stuns-with-strong-michael-voss-comments-after-coachs-exit/news-story/d9497a95f46bf103f8b04c1c16725518
No chance that they'll read or accept it, The Wise Monkeys rule!
I read the article. It's a rehash of two months ago. Maintaining a vigil for someone who's gone serves no useful purpose, other than to show respect for the departed which is obviously a policy set by the communications/pr dept at the club. And that's a decent thing to do.
But it is well past the time now to just move on. Some of us have. We have an interim coach who is giving his all and deserves acknowledgement and respect for his efforts, not to be constantly reminded of how great his predecessor was... Again, raking over Vossy's coals serves no useful purpose for the now and future of our club.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 11, 2026, 09:54:57 am
Still no explanation on the massive turn around in Cripps and Walsh's form/fitness in particular, the captain couldnt run out of sight on a dark night during last quarters under Voss and looked like the next club he would be playing for would be the Arcare or Aveo old boys.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: DJC on July 11, 2026, 10:09:43 am
I’m sure that there’s no official line or, if there is, individuals are going off script.
Davies claimed that Vossy wouldn’t play the youngsters and Russell quite rightly contradicted him a day or so later.
Perhaps the club has just encouraged players and coaches to be open and truthful 🤔
And, speaking of open and truthful, Sam Walsh’s interview about his 150th is a ripper!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on July 11, 2026, 10:12:20 am
We've actually done this to death. And no one is going to change their minds...it'll just be a rehash of the same material. Voss get's credit for the lead up work. Fraser gets credit for the wins, even if it just a continuation of Voss's work. Who gets the blame if it suddenly goes pear-shaped ?
The season is a lot more complex than what's being presented....
Events-coach change, a different voice. Interim coach v permanent coach Quality of opposition. Injuries at different times to key players and our ability to cover those. Different structures Young players being given an opportunity Form fluctuations Different roles Lapses v lack of lapses. Expectations v lack of expectations. Confidence-getting back that winning feeling.
I suspect there are still a few twists and turns in this season.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Professer E on July 11, 2026, 10:18:45 am
Getting back to the game.... We don't have much viable depth running around in the twos, gees we're skinny on in the specialist positions.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on July 11, 2026, 12:48:02 pm
Still no explanation on the massive turn around in Cripps and Walsh's form/fitness in particular, the captain couldnt run out of sight on a dark night during last quarters under Voss and looked like the next club he would be playing for would be the Arcare or Aveo old boys.
It's been explained frequently by many of us, some are not absorbing that discussion because it contradicts their personal beliefs. Fraser is not a messiah, yet too many Carlton fans seem addicted to the concept. I'll summarise for you;
Early in the season Cripps and Walsh were cooked in last quarters because too many were sitting back letting too few do the heavy lifting, there was no load sharing. Hewett and Cerra were playing like receivers, skirting packs, waiting for cheap possessions, Voss dropped Hewett because of it and he returned renewed, that's called a wake up call.
This claimed "massive turned around" is a mirage, we've been steadily building over the whole season. The conversion of losses to wins is just a swing of a handful of points, swings that result from a handful turnovers in our favour and less errors executing the very same game plan we've played all season.
The majority of it is a consequence of sharing the load, allowing our best players to be fresher at the final siren.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Professer E on July 11, 2026, 01:09:20 pm
FFS let it go
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Shakin77 on July 11, 2026, 01:44:06 pm
Still no explanation on the massive turn around in Cripps and Walsh's form/fitness in particular, the captain couldnt run out of sight on a dark night during last quarters under Voss and looked like the next club he would be playing for would be the Arcare or Aveo old boys.
Shhhh. Add McKay
We can't talk about these things. Fixture the only difference between Rounds 0-7 and the Fraser Era.
I am here to call out the BS that there has been "zero" change to the game style, pressure, player role changes and that we we have been working on it all pre-season and in season it was there to see in the 2nd half against the Lions.
Only a change in fixture. Everything else the same.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: madbluboy on July 11, 2026, 02:28:32 pm
We'll see tonight hey.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: kruddler on July 11, 2026, 02:45:07 pm
Still no explanation on the massive turn around in Cripps and Walsh's form/fitness in particular, the captain couldnt run out of sight on a dark night during last quarters under Voss and looked like the next club he would be playing for would be the Arcare or Aveo old boys.
Shhhh. Add McKay
We can't talk about these things. Fixture the only difference between Rounds 0-7 and the Fraser Era.
I am here to call out the BS that there has been "zero" change to the game style, pressure, player role changes and that we we have been working on it all pre-season and in season it was there to see in the 2nd half against the Lions.
Only a change in fixture. Everything else the same.
Pretty sure McKay has been covered a few times, but i can't make you read it.
But tell me.....what exactly has Fraser done to Cripps....removed the Voss shaped kryptonite from around his neck?
He was back in the coaches votes for the first time since R1 richmond game. How did we conspire to give him votes that game (and every game since) given that not only do we need to rig our votes, we need to rig the oppositions votes as well. This conspiracy goes deeper and deeper the more you look! We've got the whole AFL to work together on undermining Vossy now.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on July 11, 2026, 03:55:26 pm
The very first part of correcting previous errors is admitting them, as a club we've been making the same error for 20 years, burning all the good from the past and repeating the same mistakes, and when fans cling to this messiah Fraser notion that is denying the successes and errors of the past.
You have to learn from the past to move forward, all of it, good and bad. Surely as a club we aren't so stupid as not to have learned anything in two decades? Who the feck are we, CheatsFC!
Carlton fans should be happy about the reports coming from Fraser, Cripps, Walsh, etc., etc., about building on the successful execution of tactics started weeks and months ago, because it puts us further down the track than the stupidity of a full reset that would send us back to square one, yet again.
That's my FFS, fans gobbling the knobs the media types better remember being an AFL Media type is basically the career path for Past Player Clark Kents who are otherwise shizen at coaching! ;)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Shakin77 on July 11, 2026, 03:57:35 pm
We can't talk about these things. Fixture the only difference between Rounds 0-7 and the Fraser Era.
I am here to call out the BS that there has been "zero" change to the game style, pressure, player role changes and that we we have been working on it all pre-season and in season it was there to see in the 2nd half against the Lions.
Only a change in fixture. Everything else the same.
Pretty sure McKay has been covered a few times, but i can't make you read it.
But tell me.....what exactly has Fraser done to Cripps....removed the Voss shaped kryptonite from around his neck?
He was back in the coaches votes for the first time since R1 richmond game. How did we conspire to give him votes that game (and every game since) given that not only do we need to rig our votes, we need to rig the oppositions votes as well. This conspiracy goes deeper and deeper the more you look! We've got the whole AFL to work together on undermining Vossy now.
Cripps (and Walsh and McKay) have all been remarkably better since Voss left. Fact we all agree on.
You can assume that it's changes that Voss had made that hadn't kicked in yet, the fixture and a recovery to the body greater than Lazarus.
Or it's more help on this inside in Hewett, Ainsworth and Smith and less Contests. Maybe a less taxing game plan and holding on the ball a little bit to slow down momentum? Maybe neither of these things?
The real reasons? You don't really know. None of us do.
If you want to give Fraser 0% credit for any changes regardless of how small that's ok.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Shakin77 on July 11, 2026, 03:59:25 pm
Re: The conspiracy stuff with the Cripps?
Did you borrow LP's Tin foil hat? Bizarre take
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on July 11, 2026, 04:00:30 pm
Cripps (and Walsh and McKay) have all been remarkably better for longer since Voss left. That's a fact.
Corrected for accuracy.
They been better over a full 4-qtrs instead of just 3-qtrs, and that makes all the difference when you have a history of losing games by just a goal or two!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Thryleon on July 11, 2026, 05:36:06 pm
I still maintain that our 0 and 7 record was not as bad as advertised and that we lost a few games in critical moments where a few individuals lost rheir heads than anything greatly changed.
Irrespective like Lods no one is going to change their minds, but you dont build big scores and hold teams to 0 goals for half a gane by poor coaching. The momentum swinging away at critical moments an obvious problem that seems to be fixed now which has persisted a long time. Ive not seen enough footy to see the in game trend myself but we seem to have gone into finishing stronger in games.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 11, 2026, 05:41:38 pm
Still no explanation on the massive turn around in Cripps and Walsh's form/fitness in particular, the captain couldnt run out of sight on a dark night during last quarters under Voss and looked like the next club he would be playing for would be the Arcare or Aveo old boys.
It's been explained frequently by many of us, some are not absorbing that discussion because it contradicts their personal beliefs. Fraser is not a messiah, yet too many Carlton fans seem addicted to the concept. I'll summarise for you;
Early in the season Cripps and Walsh were cooked in last quarters because too many were sitting back letting too few do the heavy lifting, there was no load sharing. Hewett and Cerra were playing like receivers, skirting packs, waiting for cheap possessions, Voss dropped Hewett because of it and he returned renewed, that's called a wake up call.
This claimed "massive turned around" is a mirage, we've been steadily building over the whole season. The conversion of losses to wins is just a swing of a handful of points, swings that result from a handful turnovers in our favour and less errors executing the very same game plan we've played all season.
The majority of it is a consequence of sharing the load, allowing our best players to be fresher at the final siren.
Cripps was capped at 80% time on ground under Voss and has played more under Fraser 80-85% . I actually think Voss went out of his way to look after his main man... Bont averages about 83.8 % time on ground and Nick Daicos 87%...so Im not buying workload for such a dramatic change in form/fitness...
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on July 11, 2026, 06:11:08 pm
Cripps was capped at 80% time on ground under Voss and has played more under Fraser 80-85% . I actually think Voss went out of his way to look after his main man... Bont averages about 83.8 % time on ground and Nick Daicos 87%...so Im not buying workload for such a dramatic change in form/fitness...
Cripps was running dry, I doubt it means much because TOG isn't a measure of influence. Early in the season he and Walsh toiled relentlessly but in the later stages having zero impact. They aren't humanly capable of maintaining such a solo effort for 4-qtrs, nobody is!
They needed help.
The other thing that gets them fresher to the end of games is improved efficiency, less wasted effort, so less fatigue. Now we see blokes persisting until we win the footy, not surrendering after a 3rd or 4th effort, and not turning it over on the 2nd or 3rd possession in the chain. Practise makes perfect, it's not a miracle!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: kruddler on July 11, 2026, 06:57:24 pm
Which makes the position of some fans even more bizarre, you can clearly see from this forum that many fans hold beliefs not consistent with the messages delivered by the players.
Even their heroes telling them events are otherwise cannot persuade them to let go of the messiah or miracle synopsis. The fans even assert the players are telling a rehearsed lie to justify those personal beliefs.
I'd prefer to think that Occam's Razor applies.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Thryleon on July 11, 2026, 11:07:42 pm
Then I see a scoreline like today, and wonder, without seeing it, is it REALLY any different?