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Topic: Australian Cricket - Crisis, What Crisis ?? (Read 761044 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Australian Cricket - Crisis, What Crisis ??

Reply #2205 –
Quote from: LP – on
I don't consider Curtley Ambrose, Joel Garner or Jeff Thompson less skilled than James Anderson, they just have different skills!

In contrast I could probably claim that recent events and rule changes limiting short pitched bowling, to make the game friendlier to participate in at lower levels, have left batsmen less skilled in dealing with it. What would Ian Chappell, Gordon Greenidge or Viv Richards have done to Wagner, Kim Hughes even and Kim was hardly a hard man of the game?

That doesn't make the Wade / Wagner tussle less interesting, it just makes it different from the norm and somewhat extending the range of Test Cricket beyond modern vanilla!

I'll disagree on Anderson and the those three former quicks...the latter were intimidators who banged it in short to hit batsman, Thommos variation was the sand shoe crusher.
Anderson has to be more skillful because he lacks the height and pace so needs to be doing more with the ball, sure bowling a good bouncer takes some skill but not really at the same level as
bowling a genuine outswinger when conditions dont suit IMHO.
Kim Hughes actually commented when he played that Australia should comb the beaches to find tall athletic specimens that could match the Windies tall rangy quicks...

Wade and Wagner are hardly Lillee and Viv, its a boring contest between two average cricketers, watching Wade body up to Wagner's harmless 130k rubbish doesnt exactly get the juices flowing.Wagner has achieved notoriety and a high world ranking for bowling a short carp line at inept batsman but skillful I dont call him, I call Boult and Southee skilled. I'll agree the batting skill in playing short pitched bowling is poor overall these days compared to the past and that viewing persistent short pitched bowling is different in a novelty way but its not quality cricket that I enjoy. Broad to Warner or Hazlewood to Root is what I would rather watch..

Re: Australian Cricket - Crisis, What Crisis ??

Reply #2206 –
I don't get the big deal about "boring 130kph", ......... that's Glenn McGrath's speed range.

I was a bowling all-rounder, I could swing the ball either way, bowl leg and off cutters, knuckle balls and toe crushers, but for life of me with all my skills and practice I couldn't bowl 145kph(90mph). 130kph(80mph) no problems, that extra 10kph is nearly impossible for all but a very select few.

Bowling fast is a skill on it's own, but it doesn't make for good cricket.

Bowling at 130kph(80mph) is neither slow bowling nor bad cricket.

I gather this idea that 130kph is boring and slow comes from armchair critics who have never faced an 80 mph bowler.
(btw., For non-cricketing followers of this debate, or just cricket watchers, a 130kph bowler would be faster than nearly all club cricketers, many or most sub-district or even district 2nd, 3rd or 4th cricketers. There is nobody you've watched in the local nets or park that is likely to be bowling 130kph or faster.)

I think Wagner getting a bunch of 130kph balls on the money at any length is far superior to Tait bowling one extraordinary unplayable delivery out of every hundred!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Australian Cricket - Crisis, What Crisis ??

Reply #2207 –
Quote from: LP – on
I don't get the big deal about "boring 130kph", ......... that's Glenn McGrath's speed range.

I was a bowling all-rounder, I could swing the ball either way, bowl leg and off cutters, knuckle balls and toe crushers, but for life of me with all my skills and practice I couldn't bowl 145kph(90mph). 130kph(80mph) no problems, that extra 10kph is nearly impossible for all but a very select few.

Bowling fast is a skill on it's own, but it doesn't make for good cricket.

Bowling at 130kph(80mph) is neither slow bowling nor bad cricket.

I gather this idea that 130kph is boring and slow comes from armchair critics who have never faced an 80 mph bowler.
(btw., For non-cricketing followers of this debate, or just cricket watchers, a 130kph bowler would be faster than nearly all club cricketers, many or most sub-district or even district 2nd, 3rd or 4th cricketers. There is nobody you've watched in the local nets or park that is likely to be bowling 130kph or faster.)

I think Wagner getting a bunch of 130kph balls on the money at any length is far superior to Tait bowling one extraordinary unplayable delivery out of every hundred!
NZ selectors have decided to go with 2 metre uncapped Kyle Jamison as a replacement for Lachie Ferguson, 5 wickets so far in the NZ domestic season so he hasnt been picked on over whelming form and its fairly obvious why he has been picked....I rest my case.
 

Re: Australian Cricket - Crisis, What Crisis ??

Reply #2208 –
LP is on the money.   I've been to sub district level net sessions with the radar guns set up etc and very very few district level blokes exceed 120.  And at that level,  for a bloke who batted at ten or eleven, that's bloody quick.  How guys make it look easy smashing the likes of Starc square when he's a bees whatsit off in line or length at 145 plus is amazing.   The test level blokes are so good it's not comparable to us mortals.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Australian Cricket - Crisis, What Crisis ??

Reply #2209 –
Quote from: Professer E – on
LP is on the money.   I've been to sub district level net sessions with the radar guns set up etc and very very few district level blokes exceed 120.  And at that level,  for a bloke who batted at ten or eleven, that's bloody quick.  How guys make it look easy smashing the likes of Starc square when he's a bees whatsit off in line or length at 145 plus is amazing.   The test level blokes are so good it's not comparable to us mortals.

But thats the thing, mortals like us view 130k as quick but to Smith, Warner, Williamson and the other test batsman etc thats medium pace and a free hit unless its got something on it....
I watched Brett Lee bowl to one of the English media in a net session and he was just rolling his arm over but it was scary stuff how rapid the ball got to the batsman so I get it but you cant tell me
Travis Head was out to high quality pace bowling for example, he played a crape shot to a crape ball that a player like Gilchrist would have hit out of the stadium.

Re: Australian Cricket - Crisis, What Crisis ??

Reply #2210 –
I remember that EB.  Brett took it easy on him and he learnt a good lesson

Re: Australian Cricket - Crisis, What Crisis ??

Reply #2211 –
130-135 is plenty quick enough if you've got the control to go with it & are either hitting the seam, or getting late swing. As we've seen in the past, our batsmen have very little idea on how to play the moving ball...no matter what speed its delivered at !

As for rules on short pitched bowling leading to poor technique in recent years.....I'd go even further back to the development of protective equipment (helmet really).  Batsmen are quite prepared to wear a knock on the scone these days as they know (mostly) they're going to be protected.  This has led to a lot of players having very little idea of how to counter attack, or even evade the bouncer.   I'm certainly not suggesting that helmets are a bad thing, they had to happen, but we see less & less players who are great instinct players of the short ball (the likes of Ponting).



Life is pain....... anyone who says differently is selling something.

Re: Australian Cricket - Crisis, What Crisis ??

Reply #2212 –
Bad technique and habits start early,  because kids,  even with all the gear,  are crapping themselves about getting hit and invariably you see kids back pedalling towards leg.... When all you have to do is step the other way and get your body inside the line. We have only one kid at the club with an idea about short pitched stuff and he isn't scared and his footwork is good.

Personally I don't think Head is up to it.  All his recent dismissals have been soft.   Chipped drive to cover... I'd give my kids in U13s a chat over that one.   Nicks behind or catches square happen,  but an upped drive? 
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Australian Cricket - Crisis, What Crisis ??

Reply #2213 –
Quote from: Professer E – on
Bad technique and habits start early,  because kids,  even with all the gear,  are crapping themselves about getting hit and invariably you see kids back pedalling towards leg.... When all you have to do is step the other way and get your body inside the line. We have only one kid at the club with an idea about short pitched stuff and he isn't scared and his footwork is good.

Personally I don't think Head is up to it.  All his recent dismissals have been soft.   Chipped drive to cover... I'd give my kids in U13s a chat over that one.   Nicks behind or catches square happen,  but an upped drive?

How Wade and Head are in before Carey is baffling

Re: Australian Cricket - Crisis, What Crisis ??

Reply #2214 –
Wade seems to have got himself into a pickle with the Kiwi quicks ... and it could be career ending.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Australian Cricket - Crisis, What Crisis ??

Reply #2215 –
Should have enforced the follow on.

Re: Australian Cricket - Crisis, What Crisis ??

Reply #2216 –
Quote from: capcom – on
Should have enforced the follow on.

Agree, I'd be going hard at NZ and finishing them off, they look down and disinterested. I often wonder if the lack of follow on's these days has more to do with money than winning games. If games finish early its probably not that good for the bottom line of the game with gate receipts down and advertisers not getting their 5 days worth. It also kills off interest in the series,
Pakistan and NZ have been terrible this season and one sided cricket doesnt help the game. Michael Vaughan was right when he said the test ratings are rubbish and NZ are not the No 2 team in the world. Clearly with Smith and Warner back we are the No 2 team just behind India...

Re: Australian Cricket - Crisis, What Crisis ??

Reply #2217 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Agree, I'd be going hard at NZ and finishing them off, they look down and disinterested. I often wonder if the lack of follow on's these days has more to do with money than winning games. If games finish early its probably not that good for the bottom line of the game with gate receipts down and advertisers not getting their 5 days worth. It also kills off interest in the series,
Pakistan and NZ have been terrible this season and one sided cricket doesnt help the game. Michael Vaughan was right when he said the test ratings are rubbish and NZ are not the No 2 team in the world. Clearly with Smith and Warner back we are the No 2 team just behind India...
Given the trouble the Aussies have had over the years with keeping their fast bowlers fit, i think NOT enforcing the follow on is simply a way of giving them a break from bowling for 2-3 days straight!

Re: Australian Cricket - Crisis, What Crisis ??

Reply #2218 –
H
Quote from: DJC – on
Wade seems to have got himself into a pickle with the Kiwi quicks ... and it could be career ending.
His talent, or lack of, will be career ending

Re: Australian Cricket - Crisis, What Crisis ??

Reply #2219 –
Quote from: Professer E – on
Bad technique and habits start early,  because kids,  even with all the gear,  are crapping themselves about getting hit and invariably you see kids back pedalling towards leg.... When all you have to do is step the other way and get your body inside the line. We have only one kid at the club with an idea about short pitched stuff and he isn't scared and his footwork is good.

Personally I don't think Head is up to it.  All his recent dismissals have been soft.   Chipped drive to cover... I'd give my kids in U13s a chat over that one.   Nicks behind or catches square happen,  but an upped drive? 

Head is up to it enough to get a ton Prof.
I spent most of my money on Women and grog.
The rest I just wasted.