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Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game)

Reply #165 –
Quote from: blue4life – on
Pagan had North in the finals for 12 consecutive seasons and won two flags, at a club with no money, bugger all members and crap facilities, yet he somehow lost all his ability as a leader of men the minute he walked in the door at Princes Park.
Odd, to say the very least.
I've had a gutfull of sacking coaches and looking for the next quick fix, it's got nothing to do with Malthouse in fact I've never particularly liked the bloke.
If we sack Malthouse we're officially a basket case, beyond help.
o
With old coaches, especially Pagan, the game passes them by. By the time he got to us he was trying to play a by-gone game plan. He was still running 30 interchanges when everyone else was running 100. As for Mick, why play so many behind the ball and have such a negative game plan when he's seen time and again we do better when we are allowed to get numbers forward and run, as happened late last year. Not mention other games previous years where we've been a mile behind where he's changed the played, allowed us to run and we've fought back quickly. When he coaches like that he does a good job but why no do it all the time if you're a smart coach. Terrible last night to see players run to the middle and have no-one there or ahead of them to pass to by hand or foot. A coach worth his weight in salt coaches a side to their strengths, not their weaknesses. It why Ratten did well. While it wasn't totally flawless he coached the side to their strengths and got results from not necessarily a brilliant list. He was stiff to be chopped if you want to talk about changing coaches.

Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game)

Reply #166 –
Quote from: blue4life – on
.
If we sack Malthouse we're officially a basket case, beyond help.

That's already the case whether we sack MM or not. Our recruiting of recent times has left us with a team that would struggle against the Carlton teams post salary cap sanctions. We are in for a Game  of Thrones style winter.  :(
IN WADA WE TRUST

Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game)

Reply #167 –
I think that all parties at the club are at fault and are the cause of our predicament.  All need to take a bloody hard look at themselves and all need to start pulling on the same rope... a rope connected to the concept that this club needs to rebuild everything form the ground up.

1.  The players.  Well we have the list we have because our list management, recruiting and development are back in the 1960's, so any improvement in those areas will translate directly into better onfield results.  However, the players themselves have to share the burden because of a variable and sporadic work rate, which everybody agrees has been a significant issue for far too long.  Too many blokes have, as Mr Judd succinctly put in this morning, been satisfied with just getting a game and have not been 100% committed to winning at all costs...  "paying the price" as he put it.
2.  Selection.  Too frequently we make mystifying and unjustifiable selections and don't put a side on the park that gives us a chance of winning - too many games are lost on Thursday night.  Too frequently we don't pick balanced sides, or sides with gaping deficiencies that the opposition exploit.  We do not appear to do our homework on the opposition e.g. tagging DeLedio is the first thing 16 other clubs do against Richmond.
3.  Coaching.  Includes development, instruction and game plan IMO.  Slow ball movement is death in football, and the good sides own the corridor... or you employ a defensive gameplan based upon team defence and manic defensive pressure.  We do neither... yet play everybody behind the ball and seem to rely upon slow ball movement outside the corridor with inside 50 invariably a bomb to a key forward.  Why Mick continues with this plan, which clearly doesn't work, is bewildering.

So quite frankly;
1.  recruiting and development must improve (not really possible until EOS).
2. The wheat needs to be sorted from the chaff re the playing list - either you're in and committed or you can leave.  That said, we must commit to players that buy in.
3.  I'm happy for Mick to continue but on the condition that he starts rebuilding the list and starts developing a realistic gameplan suited to modern football, not 1985.  Wins are immaterial right now - its how (and who) they play between now and the end of the year that should dictate Mick's future.  And this should be communicated to all parties.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game)

Reply #168 –
Quote from: Rational_Expectations – on
I think some posters have gone early on Whiley. I'm prepared to give the kid a bit more time.

x2....Was playing at VFL pace and looked slow, Pendlebury is probably the best mid in the comp at the minute given Ablett is out and it was a tough ask coming in cold.
Worst thing we can do is drop him, I might have tempted to play him off half back after half time and let him take a lesser opponent to build some confidence...

Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game)

Reply #169 –
Elwood, that would be an excellent option. Playing him at half back flank, and helping to get the ball out of defence. While Whiley wasn't great, he did start to get the ball and was getting better. He needs a few games to get a feel for the pace of the game for certain.
This digital world is too much for us insects to understand.

Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game)

Reply #170 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
x2....Was playing at VFL pace and looked slow, Pendlebury is probably the best mid in the comp at the minute given Ablett is out and it was a tough ask coming in cold.
Worst thing we can do is drop him, I might have tempted to play him off half back after half time and let him take a lesser opponent to build some confidence...

I like (sarcastically) how we put him on Pendlebury first game. Who was the bright spark that thought of that idea.
 

Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game)

Reply #171 –
Quote from: laj – on
I like (sarcastically) how we put him on Pendlebury first game. Who was the bright spark that thought of that idea.

I suggested and endosed that move would happen pre game given Whiley had done a good job on Ablett when playing for GWS....it was good in theory but Whileys lack of senior match practice
really had him off the pace even though he had form in the VFL. I would have moved him off Pendlebury earlier when he was getting towelled up, thought Mick left him there too long and his confidence like his fitness expired. Was better after half time but he was shot mentally...needs some more game time and I think he will be ok, he doesnt shirk contests and is a willing worker and we need to persist with him.

Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game)

Reply #172 –
Quote from: Juddkreuzer – on
That's already the case whether we sack MM or not. Our recruiting of recent times has left us with a team that would struggle against the Carlton teams post salary cap sanctions. We are in for a Game  of Thrones style winter.  :(

Our recruiting has been poor for a very long time and we are paying the price.
We never took the draft seriously in Elliott's day and traded picks willy nilly, we've never really got the hang of it or invested enough resources into identifying young talent.
I remember watching Luke Livingstone's first game and wondering what it was about him that made the club think he was worth our first pick, I've had the same feeling watching the likes of Bootsma, Hampson and Watson in more recent times.
Shaun Burgoyne, Daniel Kerr, Drew Petrie, Kane Cornes, Dom Cassisi, Scott Thompson, Josh Hunt, Graham Johncock and Ted Richards all went after our first three picks in that 2000 draft, we took Livingstone, Trent Sporn and Simon Wiggins in the first 15, Ash McGrath went at 13.
We took Sporn the pick before Burgoyne back then, and a few years ago we took Lucas the pick before Talia, we've just never got it right.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game)

Reply #173 –
Quote from: blue4life – on
Our recruiting has been poor for a very long time and we are paying the price.
We never took the draft seriously in Elliott's day and traded picks willy nilly, we've never really got the hang of it or invested enough resources into identifying young talent.
I remember watching Luke Livingstone's first game and wondering what it was about him that made the club think he was worth our first pick, I've had the same feeling watching the likes of Bootsma, Hampson and Watson in more recent times.
Shaun Burgoyne, Daniel Kerr, Drew Petrie, Kane Cornes, Dom Cassisi, Scott Thompson, Josh Hunt, Graham Johncock and Ted Richards all went after our first three picks in that 2000 draft, we took Livingstone, Trent Sporn and Simon Wiggins in the first 15, Ash McGrath went at 13.
We took Sporn the pick before Burgoyne back then, and a few years ago we took Lucas the pick before Talia, we've just never got it right.

The 2000 draft was a shocker...to be fair to Livingston he had a serious abdominal injury and never really recovered......

Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game)

Reply #174 –
Our picks are a little bit more than just bad luck here and there. We really haven't found any gems in years. While other clubs have picked like specialists. Our trade with players hasn't been great, and then we have lost players for nothing. This is probably where our troubles have begun in the first place. No wonder our stocks look cheap at best. Sure we have had a few good decisions, but few and far between. I still can't see what we have in Dick, Tutt and Jones. I know I should give them a chance and I will do so. If we had Laidler, Betts and Waite, I am convinced we would not have as many problems as we do at the moment. Lucas is another one I shake my head at daily. What a bad week to give up smoking.
This digital world is too much for us insects to understand.

Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game)

Reply #175 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
The 2000 draft was a shocker...to be fair to Livingston he had a serious abdominal injury and never really recovered......

There are players from that draft still playing top football, Burgoyne played in a premiership side last year and Thompson won Adelaide's B&F and has been AA, we would have killed for Drew Petrie or Ted Richards at any time in the last 10 years.
The only current ten year players we have drafted are Simmo and Walks, the rest have disappeared without a trace.
We might have finally got one right with Cripps but I'm not convinced that trading pick 7 for Jacksch was good value, time will tell.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game)

Reply #176 –
Zero chance Richards would still be playing AFL if he was at Carlton

Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game)

Reply #177 –
Quote from: blue4life – on
There are players from that draft still playing top football, Burgoyne played in a premiership side last year and Thompson won Adelaide's B&F and has been AA, we would have killed for Drew Petrie or Ted Richards at any time in the last 10 years.
The only current ten year players we have drafted are Simmo and Walks, the rest have disappeared without a trace.
We might have finally got one right with Cripps but I'm not convinced that trading pick 7 for Jacksch was good value, time will tell.

Jaksch, Whiley and Boekhorst for pick 7 is one that will create a fair few threads in the future either way it works out......I supported the trade and still do.
All three have their issues to overcome but as Meatloaf said  two out of three aint bad and I reckon thats what you are hoping for in that type of deal.

Jaksch vs White was a draw, Whiley had a shocker first up and poor Boekhorst came on when we were getting pumped and while he tried hard he was just
swept aside in the avalanche of Collingwood players getting numbers to the footy...
Reckon Jaksch and the Boeky man can be useful players if we can get them settled.....Whiley may take a bit longer to rebuild his confidence...
I like Boekhorst forward and reckon he could be the crumbing goalkicker  we need if Mick could settle him there...

Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game)

Reply #178 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Jaksch, Whiley and Boekhorst for pick 7 is one that will create a fair few threads in the future either way it works out......I supported the trade and still do.
All three have their issues to overcome but as Meatloaf said  two out of three aint bad and I reckon thats what you are hoping for in that type of deal.

Jaksch vs White was a draw, Whiley had a shocker first up and poor Boekhorst came on when we were getting pumped and while he tried hard he was just
swept aside in the avalanche of Collingwood players getting numbers to the footy...
Reckon Jaksch and the Boeky man can be useful players if we can get them settled.....Whiley may take a bit longer to rebuild his confidence...
I like Boekhorst forward and reckon he could be the crumbing goalkicker  we need if Mick could settle him there...

Yes, putting Whiley on Pendlebury first game didn't exactly smack of intelligence.

Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game)

Reply #179 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on

Reckon Jaksch and the Boeky man can be useful players if we can get them settled....

You could be right Elwood but what would you rather, two useful players or one top liner?
There have been some awfully good footballers drafted around pick 7, Yarran was 6.
A win in this trade for me would mean that at least one of them plays 150 games.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.