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Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #405 –
So as each days passes Trump back-flips on more and more of his radical proposals. By the time election day comes around he'll be a born again moderate!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #406 –
I'm not sure whether the ditching of the Muslim ban is a flip-flop rather than a decision to go for dog-whistling rather than full-on racism.

Let's face it, Trump's 'new' position may well end up being a lot like the old one.  No doubt the countries that will be targetted are Muslim countries.  And wouldn't it be a shock if a citizen of such a country could pass the vetting process by proving he or she isn't Muslim.  Presumably, Christians will be given the red carpet treatment.  Concessions may have to be made for Pakistan and Saudi Arabia because of their strategic importance to the US. 

Of course, that would pretty much put an end to any Syrian refugees entering the country unless they're Christians. 

If this system is extended to those who naturalised in other countries but were born in or are able to obtain passports in those Muslim countries, then it mops up a lot of French and Belgian Muslims.

Trump is just doing what the GOP has always done: trying to obscure his aim by saying it is something else.  The novel aspect of what he's doing is that he preceded the dogwhistle with blatant bigotry.  Previously, GOP politicians would have refused to admit their true motivation even if facing a firing squad. 

This novel aspect raises 2 questions:
1.  Will moderates be sucked in by the ditching of the explicit reference to Muslims?
2.  Will his bigoted supporters feel he has sold them out or will they accept that he has only changed his language to suck in stupid moderates but he remains every bit as bigoted as them?
 

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #407 –
Quote from: LP – on
So as each days passes Trump back-flips on more and more of his radical proposals. By the time election day comes around he'll be a born again moderate!

Typical of populist politicians - promise the world and deliver an atlas. Same thing happening now with the  Brexiteers backing away from their funding promises for the NHS.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #408 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
Typical of populist politicians - promise the world and deliver an atlas. Same thing happening now with the  Brexiteers backing away from their funding promises for the NHS.

Or clever.

He has already won the Nutter vote, now he just needs to convince a few moderates that he's marginally normal and he is in.

Although I still prefer the theory that he is sabotaging his own campaign because he doesn't really want to win, he wants power and money without responsibility.

Hard to judge what he is up to because he swings like a weather-vane.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #409 –
Quote from: LP – on
Or clever.

He has already won the Nutter vote, now he just needs to convince a few moderates that he's marginally normal and he is in.

Although I still prefer the theory that he is sabotaging his own campaign because he doesn't really want to win, he wants power and money without responsibility.

Hard to judge what he is up to because he swings like a weather-vane.

Some people call them liars.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #410 –
Hear today...

Engaland and the US are in a race to see who can stuff up their countries the most. England is winning, but the US have a Trump card.
What happened to my old profile?????

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #411 –
Quote from: blueday – on
Hear today...

Engaland and the US are in a race to see who can stuff up their countries the most. England is winning, but the US have a Trump card.

English are doing their best to bugger up our ecomomy...share market has lost 3%(panic sellers), my super has dropped off about 5K.....glad Iceland beat them in the soccer..

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #412 –
It'll be interesting to see how the Turkish airport terror attack impacts the race.  Ordinarily, it should help Trump given it should drive xenophobia.  Yet he lost ground after the Orlando shootings.  Does he fare better when these attacks happen overseas?

His first response at one of his rallies was predictably poor.  He went on about the fact that something bad, something very bad is going on and we have to figure out what it is.  This is the sort of thing you'd expect from a moron or a primary school kid.  Hmmm ... I'm thinking that everyone knows that ISIS is almost certainly involved.  Of course, he is really dog whistling to the rightwing wingnuts.  The 'something' is that Obama is a secret Muslim and Clinton is helping him orchestrate a takeover of the US by radical Islamic terrorists.  But I hope Clinton uses his words in their literal sense to show how stupid and ignorant he is, clueless about how to deal with Terrorism.  After all, he doesn't even know what's going on let alone know how to address it.  That is how he would appear to moderates and independents.  At some point, she should remind the public that Trumps only involvement with the Middle East was to fall over himself to hire out one of his properties to Gaddafi when he visited the UN in New York, and this was after the Lockerbie tragedy.

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #413 –
Quote from: Mav – on
It'll be interesting to see how the Turkish airport terror attack impacts the race.  Ordinarily, it should help Trump given it should drive xenophobia.  Yet he lost ground after the Orlando shootings.  Does he fare better when these attacks happen overseas?

His first response at one of his rallies was predictably poor.  He went on about the fact that something bad, something very bad is going on and we have to figure out what it is.  This is the sort of thing you'd expect from a moron or a primary school kid.  Hmmm ... I'm thinking that everyone knows that ISIS is almost certainly involved.  Of course, he is really dog whistling to the rightwing wingnuts.  The 'something' is that Obama is a secret Muslim and Clinton is helping him orchestrate a takeover of the US by radical Islamic terrorists.  But I hope Clinton uses his words in their literal sense to show how stupid and ignorant he is, clueless about how to deal with Terrorism.  After all, he doesn't even know what's going on let alone know how to address it.  That is how he would appear to moderates and independents.  At some point, she should remind the public that Trumps only involvement with the Middle East was to fall over himself to hire out one of his properties to Gaddafi when he visited the UN in New York, and this was after the Lockerbie tragedy.

I think it is wrong to assume he is stupid, perhaps he is just pandering to stupid people?

The media will come out and call him an idiot, and the true idiots will view that as media telling them how to think which only reinforces their support for Trump.

The media think labeling Trump an idiot helps Clinton, it's like the UK media labeling the Brexit foolish. The outcome may be the exact opposite of what they desire.

If the media do not want Trump, the media need to highlight to the voters that Trump is manipulating them. But I fear with their early grab for ratings through pandering to Trump's largess they may well have shot themselves in the foot. God help the media if Trump is in charge, they may have some real conspiracies to look out for, or he may just shot a few of them dead in the street and keep on walking.!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #414 –
Quote from: LP – on
I think it is wrong to assume he is stupid, perhaps he is just pandering to stupid people?
I explained that he is mostly dogwhistling and his feigned ignorance is just a device to avoid going nuclear with his secret Muslim conspiracy theory.

But Clinton and the media have to avoid being duped.  If they think it will help Trump if they point out his lies and ignorance because calling him out will make him stronger, he will win.  That's the mistake that the other Republican candidates made.  They realised too late that they needed to attack him rather than play nice.  The press were also slow in realising that they had to point out that the Emperor was wearing no clothes.

With Brexit, the economic argument mounted by the Leave campaign was mostly rebuffed by economists and the campaign then switched to an anti-immigration platform.  That doesn't prove that rational argument is pointless.  It appears the Remain campaign blundered by not making it sufficiently clear that the UK might have to agree to the free flow of EU workers if it wants to gain access to the single market, just as Norway does.

I reckon the obvious way to confront Trump is to draw him out.  Don't leave him talking generalities and promising that he'll fix everything if he wins.  His stumbles have occurred when the press has forced him to follow the logic of his positions to their logical conclusion.  For instance, he ended up conceding that pregnant women should be prosecuted if they sought abortions, a position Right to Lifers well know is politically toxic.  The Muslim ban has also drawn much criticism because it is obviously impossible to implement as much as for its racism.  Attack Trump on his ignorance about Terrorism and he won't be able to stop himself from taking the bait.  He'll go berserk at some rally or make an ill-considered late night tweet and frighten the horses to his own detriment.

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #415 –
I don't think Trump is stupid, but he is strikingly inarticulate for someone running for public office.

He may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer but he does have his share of rat cunning and dog whistling to the conspiracy theorists and right wing nut jobs is to be expected.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #416 –
Quote from: DJC – on
I don't think Trump is stupid, but he is strikingly inarticulate for someone running for public office.

He may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer but he does have his share of rat cunning and dog whistling to the conspiracy theorists and right wing nut jobs is to be expected.

It's interesting. Is he a complete lone wolf or is there an organised group, maybe even of conspiracy theorists, behind the scenes and he is only their front man pushing its agenda?
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #417 –
You don't have to go undercover to find conspiracy nuts.  They're only too willing to share their views on the net and even in commercial broadcasts.  Fox News is happy to peddle various conspiracy theories, as is the GOP.  Both are happy to state as fact that Clinton sacrificed Americans in the Benghazi Consulate attack, that the Clintons murdered Vince Foster or that Obama is a foreign Muslim who forged his birth certificate.

But there are right-wing shock jocks who take it to a whole other level.  Alex Jones is way out there and propogates more conspiracy theories than anyone else, unifying them by reference to the New World Order.

Has anyone watched Fox News?  It's amazing how smoothly conspiracy theories and baseless assertions are stated as indisputable fact and they just form the baseline for further discussions.  I can imagine it is effective brainwashing for ignorant or uncritical viewers.

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #418 –
If you think Trump has no chance you need to look at this video and know that these witch's views are reflective of what a lot of Americans think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIvAgKrq4tc
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #419 –
That's a typical Fox News segment, though, and the sort of nonsense I've been talking about.  At least Andrea Tarantaros got the bullet, but it had nothing to do with her twisted views.  The gossip is that a book deal she struck ran foul of Roger Ailes, the all-powerful boss of Fox News.

The theme of that segment is repeated many times a day on Fox News and Trump is firmly on the bandwagon.  Obama is a very rational guy - he's very much like Mr Spock.  He is of the belief that a key to confronting terrorists is to avoid being drawn into incendiary reactions, whether in words or military actiouns.  What Fox News wants him to do is to declare a Holy War against Radical Islamic TerrorTM and blow a lot of crap up in the Middle East.  Many counter-terrorism and Middle East experts agree with Obama's approach as it doesn't create the impression of the US attacking Muslims which ISIS can use as a recruiting tool.  But to Fox News and Trump, this can only be a sign that Obama is a secret Muslim who is either soft on terrorism or complicit in it.