Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) (Read 841186 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 28 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2145 –
Quote from: Mav – on
If she’s further left than Bernie ... Good Heavens ... that would mean she’s like Paul Keating or Bob Hawke! How appalling!

Next thing you know, she’ll bring in a single payer system like Medicare as those Commos did (with a hat tip to Gough’s Medibank).

Good to see you haven't changed your spots.
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2146 –
There may be that closeness in certain sections of both parties at the political level...
What needs to be factored in is that the Trump years have changed the dynamics in many respects.
Trump is almost a third party in his own right and has captured a lot of the hearts and minds of many sections of the Republican party and maybe even some who would  normally vote Democrat.
He's an entity that bears the title  Republican but is actually alien to many sections of that party.
That's where the fraction occurs.
And that's the problem for any post -Trump 'healer.'
There is a real hatred and divide.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2147 –
I think their differences are mainly in the commercial / corporate world, not so much the social world although Trump is clearly more narcissistic.

Which doesn't mean Biden isn't narcissistic, before the Trump boosters go on the attack!

However, in terms of enforcing some corporate and commercial social responsibilities they are clearly different. Trump is fundamentally happy to allow the commercial world to burn society in an attempt to make a profit as long as they make a profit, if they don't succeed he'll throw them to the wolves retrospectively claiming they were irresponsible, but that is long after the social and natural damage is done! For those that succeed, Trump will of course claim to be the primary cause/trigger!

Biden isn't prepared to allow the corporate greed to burn society in the attempt to make a profit, he is much keener on a slower more responsible approach to capitalism, it's a key difference!

Of course that makes Biden enemy No.1 amongst the megalomaniacs and corporate psychopaths, they want to make hay before there is no longer sunlight to make it by!

I put Murdoch in this category, he seems hell bent on making as much profit as quickly as possible and at any cost, before he shuffles off! He's almost moving towards the "Head in the Jar" category of Bond type villains!

"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2148 –
Quote from: LP – on
Which doesn't mean Biden isn't narcissistic, before the Trump boosters go on the attack!

Just as an aside...
One of the strange things about this thread is that you can write a dozen lines of criticism of one candidate and include one negative post about their opponent and it's that one negative aspect that will be zeroed in on, depending on the reader's political bent.
It's a subject that 'triggers' people.
The thing is that folks minds are pretty well made up, set in stone and no opinions are changing.

It's "Biden", "Trump" or "It's all going to hell anyway whoever wins"


Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2151 –
LP, I wouldn’t necessarily go too far down the “Biden stands against corporate greed” line. I’d put him around John Howard on the Australian political spectrum. It’s just that Trump’s at the Pauline Hanson/Mark Latham extreme that makes Biden look left-wing.

Remember that Biden was a Senator from Delaware. Delaware just happens to be like the Lichtenstein of US States. It has lax corporate laws so a stack of corporations with no natural link to Delaware domicile there. Any Senator from Delaware has to keep them happy, so in a sense you can’t blame him from doing so (though he could have moved to another State to avoid that influence). Elizabeth Warren and Biden squared off over bankruptcy laws back in the early 2000s. There were 2 forms of bankruptcy. Chapter 7 bankruptcy that allowed people to do something like corporate liquidation: sell off non-protected assets, distribute them to creditors and extinguish the remaining debts. Chapter 13 bankruptcy is more like a payment plan in which the debt continues until it’s paid. The Banks and credit card companies of course didn’t like the Chapter 7 bankruptcies and Biden as lead Democrat on the Judiciary Committee pushed legislation to limit access to that form of bankruptcy. Warren and Biden have been frosty since.

Perhaps Biden is now free of that sort of corporate influence. Sure as hell, he won’t run for the Senate in Delaware no matter what happens. Perhaps he can make amends by giving Warren a Cabinet position or role in an agency from which she can promote consumer protection. But he ain’t an enemy of capitalism.

He has some serious credits in the bank when it comes to race relations as he was an enthusiastic underling to Obama. I’d imagine a closet racist would have kept his distance from Obama as Vice-Presidents can easily do but he was keen to be of service. He was also humanised by his son Beau’s death from brain cancer: he was obviously shattered by it on top of the death of his 1st wife and daughter in a car crash and it has made him a much more empathetic man than Trump could very be. But don’t expect him to be a democratic socialist.

I’d compare Harris to Julia Gillard on the Australian political spectrum.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2152 –
Great point Lods.

I'm married to an American from a far left democrat aligned state.  Have been for many years.  She certainly liked Obama and has totally shifted her position (no influence at all from me) to Trump, but only after seeing the way our political system works with heavy political back biting and her knowing the state of America is in needing much of the same analysis.  We're way better than the U.S. in that we'll collectively go after anybody from either side when called for.  They don't and the simmering volcano lies not far beneath the surface.  Been there many times and across many states.  Strange place at times.   

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2153 –
@ Capcom

Interesting post Cap. I was reading about the Dems a few days ago and of the factions in play within the party. According to the writer there are loosely three major factions, the Obamas who are currently dominant, the Clintons whose star has recently fallen somewhat and George Soros. Joe is the Obamas man and probably just a place holder. Interestingly, according to the writer,  Hillary looked upon Obama as a placeholder for her but he eventually completely outmanoeuvered her, to the point where she may being set up to take the fall for Russiagate crimes, should they ever  get pursued. That won't happen of course if Biden wins.Be interested in your comments.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2154 –
Quote from: Mav – on
LP, I wouldn’t necessarily go too far down the “Biden stands against corporate greed” line.
But I didn't write that, I wrote he wasn't prepared to let corporate greed burn society.

As you point out,

Quote from: Mav – on
He has some serious credits in the bank when it comes to race relations as he was an enthusiastic underling to Obama. I’d imagine a closet racist would have kept his distance from Obama as Vice-Presidents can easily do but he was keen to be of service. He was also humanised by his son Beau’s death from brain cancer: he was obviously shattered by it on top of the death of his 1st wife and daughter in a car crash and it has made him a much more empathetic man than Trump could very be. But don’t expect him to be a democratic socialist.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2155 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
@ Capcom

Interesting post Cap. I was reading about the Dems a few days ago and of the factions in play within the party. According to the writer there are loosely three major factions, the Obamas who are currently dominant, the Clintons whose star has recently fallen somewhat and George Soros. Joe is the Obamas man and probably just a place holder. Interestingly, according to the writer,  Hillary looked upon Obama as a placeholder for her but he eventually completely outmanoeuvered her, to the point where she may being set up to take the fall for Russiagate crimes, should they ever  get pursued. That won't happen of course if Biden wins.Be interested in your comments.
I think it's too easy to go a step too far in all this analysis, like the Russiagate conspiracies that want a domestic actor as a facilitator.

A nefarious 3rd party does not need domestic assistance, they act in ways that serve their own purpose anyway. Not to say that some domestic source can't align themselves or feed off those nefarious actions. Both sides do this equally, the joke is claiming one isn't!

I listened to a political and economic analysis from some students a while back, the claim was Trump's anti-China huff and puff is contradicted by his actions, in that domestically he has made himself look to the US public like the Gold Star Sheriff by arresting some bit playing stooge like Huawei, but globally this is a drop in the ocean when you look at food, oil, minerals, etc., etc.. Overall he's actually assisting China in the long term with many of his policies that will hurt the people who vote for him while lining the pockets of his billionaire associates with gold.

As an aside banning the likes of Huawei actually assists Russia, it was something the Russian's had already been exposed as actively pursuing behind the scenes because basically Russia is broke and cannot afford to keep up the countries infrastructure in the face of the 5G technology race. Not Russia specifically against Huawei, but to slow the growing technology gap in general. Russia needs progress in China, India and the USA to be slowed so it has a chance to catch up.

Ironically, while watching the F1 in Sochi I was reminded of this by some spurious comments made by the commentators about the quality of local technologies and media services, visiting the Olympic town was like visiting the 70s or 80s. A 2020 skin on 1980s bones. Keep in mind, Sochi was the bleeding edge of Russian progress just a handful of years back!

Think also about the Huawei ban locally, in light of the position of some involved in that recent decision in relation to early opposition or support for technologies such as the NBN a decade ago. Some see this technology race ideologically as a waste of money, the return does not justify the cost, but perhaps some see the cost and think we cannot afford to race!

When you combine these observations it's clear domestically one US person cannot act in favour of both, yet there are real world actions and events in play. The only sensible explanation is that there are a bunch of disparate actors combining to deliver these outcomes in a chaotic fashion. If you look at the events with any pre-existing political or social bent you will find a perspective that reinforces your pre-existing bias. It's very easy to cherrypick and come to a conclusion that only fits a small part of the observed behaviour.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2156 –
Trump’s problems with China started with his reflexive rejection of the TPP. IMO, the TPP was a geopolitical rather than an economic pact. If it had come to fruition, it would have brought Asian and Pacific countries into the US sphere and stymied China’s attempts to expand its influence. The hope had been that China would then negotiate to gain access to that market.

China has expanded its Belt and Road program into the pacific and has managed to persuade Solomon Islands and Kiribati to cut diplomatic ties with Taiwan. This was a diplomatic black eye for Taiwan even if those islands were hardly big trading partners.

Trump has never cared for multilateral partnerships, so he was reduced to starting a trade war whose costs dwarfed any supposed losses that the US would have experienced under the TPP. He found that telling other countries to keep away from China without offering them incentives didn’t achieve much.

Trump was lucky, though, that President Xi showed he’s as belligerent as Trump which has limited the benefit China has accrued. Traditionally, China has preferred to use soft power but Xi has preferred to throw his weight around. His attempts at dominating the South China Sea have alarmed countries with competing claims such as Vietnam and the Phillipines, the border skirmishes with India have forced the Indians closer to the US, the trade bans against Australia haven’t done it any favours, and the crackdown in Hong Kong has limited the political inroads it could make in Asia and the Pacific.
 

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2157 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
@ Capcom

Interesting post Cap. I was reading about the Dems a few days ago and of the factions in play within the party. According to the writer there are loosely three major factions, the Obamas who are currently dominant, the Clintons whose star has recently fallen somewhat and George Soros. Joe is the Obamas man and probably just a place holder. Interestingly, according to the writer,  Hillary looked upon Obama as a placeholder for her but he eventually completely outmanoeuvered her, to the point where she may being set up to take the fall for Russiagate crimes, should they ever  get pursued. That won't happen of course if Biden wins.Be interested in your comments.

@ Cookie2

On the surface, not a great deal I'd disagree with but if I let you what the better half thinks (and knows with her daily interactions with folks at home over many years) about Hilary and the Clinton foundation and their history, it'd scare most.  

I'd not believe George Soros is out of the picture just yet either.  There are skeletons in closets right throughout both parties.  

I wanted to emigrate there and the third degree they put me through with no criminal record whatsoever, health clearances (and married to a woman who has always held an American passport) was unimaginable ... thousands of emails.  Literally.

I'm glad I never went.  So is the good wife :))  Thanks mate

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2158 –
Quote from: capcom – on
@ Cookie2

On the surface, not a great deal I'd disagree with but if I let you what the better half thinks (and knows with her daily interactions with folks at home over many years) about Hilary and the Clinton foundation and their history, it'd scare most.  

I'd not believe George Soros is out of the picture just yet either.  There are skeletons in closets right throughout both parties.  

I wanted to emigrate there and the third degree they put me through with no criminal record whatsoever, health clearances (and married to a woman who has always held an American passport) was unimaginable ... thousands of emails.  Literally.

I'm glad I never went.  So is the good wife :))  Thanks mate

Thanks Cap. Yes I think you and your wife made the right choice for sure. The future there looks very uncertain at the moment.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2159 –
Russiagate :) I needed a good laugh.