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Topic: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) (Read 2551488 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2866 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Why do they say he is impeached again when it didnt hold the first time?
I believe Trump wasn't impeached because the even though The House and Senate majority voted for it, the 2/3rds Senate threshold wasn't achieved because of voting along party lines.

Same will apply again today, he won't be impeached by the Senate because you need about 1/2 the Republicans to cross the floor, and so they will get a small majority decision of guilty but not enough to act on it.

I believe Murdoch media back in 2019 reported the inability to get the 2/3rds Senate threshold as Trump being acquitted, but it's hardly the same as a unanimous no vote! It's a bit like a Joe Average being found guilty by 7 out of 12 jurors and then being set free, and obviously some charges require the jury to be unanimous, but not all, many charges are just covered by a majority verdict with a similar threshold like 9/3 or 10/2. Depends on the jurisdiction, it's not universal.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2868 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
https://www.politico.com/interactives/2019/trump-impeachment-vote-count-senate-results/
Yes sorry, I had the Senate count back to front in the first impeachment.

For/Against
House = 230/197 and 229/198
Senate = 48/52 and 47/53
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2869 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Amazing

Correct me if wrong, wasnt trump acquitted the first time of his impeachment?

Why do they say he is impeached again when it didnt hold the first time?

The 'impeachment' is the House of Representative's responsibility.
So he's been impeached for a second time by the House.
It's the 'charge' part of the process.

It then goes to the senate where the 'trial' takes place

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2870 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Amazing

Correct me if wrong, wasnt trump acquitted the first time of his impeachment?

Why do they say he is impeached again when it didnt hold the first time?



A President is impeached when the House votes on the motion, so the POTUS is unique in being the only person to have been impeached twice.

The trial is another step and the Republicans are saying that it’s unlikely to go ahead before July.  That’s not necessarily a bad thing as it gives Biden a chance to work on his agenda without the distraction of the trial.

The trial could result in the POTUS being stripped of entitlements and barred from holding office so it’s still a meaningful process.

"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2871 –
At the very least, this impeachment will be a useful way of distracting Trump. Trump is monomaniacal. He’s not the 3 dimensional chess player his supporters see. He couldn’t even handle checkers let alone ordinary chess. In the salad days of his administration, while Trump fixated on his obsession du jour his minions would be working on other schemes. But alas, his minions have followed the rats as the ship of State sinks.

History tells us that threats to Trump will see him glued to live TV coverage of them. The only concern will be if he regards Mitch McConnell’s refusal to bring the impeachment trial on urgently as a victory for him. If so, his attention will immediately return to evil scheming. We’ve seen that before: when he considered he’d dodged the Mueller bullet, he immediately implemented the Ukraine strategy that would see him impeached. And after he was acquitted of that, he started pushing the big lie of the rigged election in a bid to kill early and absentee voting and lay the groundwork for baselessly challenging a Biden victory.

But can he afford to return to business as usual? McConnell has a gun to his head now. While McConnell claims it’s impossible to start a trial before Inauguraion Day, if Trump starts doing something particularly egregious, I have a feeling McConnell would be able to organise an up-and-down vote within hours. More importantly, Trump knows any new outrage will add fuel to the fire when this impeachment does come to trial and may see McConnell ordering his Senators to convict in order to kill Trump off for good.

It certainly would be an outrage if Trump pardons all the insurrectionists on the way out the door, especially as investigators are investigating the murder of the Capitol police officer who was beaten to death. Could he pardon of all crimes other than murder? The problem is that every insurrectionist could be charged with the felony-murder of that officer. Leaving murder on the table would have the perverse result of leaving prosecutors with that charge when they would have otherwise charged those who weren’t directly involved in that killing with lesser charges. Imagine if Trump pardons cop-killers ...

I reckon this impeachment was a really sensible move. It has already extracted a hostage video from Trump that will sit alongside the Johnny Depp Pistol and Boo video when it comes to insincerity.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2872 –
Quote from: Mav – on
But alas, his minions have followed the rats as the ship of State sinks.
It's a huge tell, they rode the bus and now they are throwing Trump under it!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"
 

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2873 –
Quote from: LP – on
It's a huge tell, they rode the bus and now they are throwing Trump under it!

They are all strategists.  If Trump is succesfully impeached, he can't run for the hot seat again.  Watch them all cross the floor for it this time because it guarantees one of them will get their snout in the presedential running trot and ensures Trump won't be able to ever again.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2874 –
Hmmm!
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2875 –
The other advantage of a delayed trial in the Senate is that it can ride on the coattails of FBI, police & media investigations. Imagine if they reveal that Trump had conspired with the militants who were the spearhead of the attack on the Capitol  :o

Granted, there’s no cogent evidence of this atm. But you only have to look at the behind-the-scenes behaviour of Trump and his lackeys (especially Guiliani) regarding Ukraine and Georgia to know it’s possible. Not only do those instances show that Trump is willing to resort to criminality, they also show they’re incompetent enough that they don’t cover their tracks well.

What we do know is that the attack on the Capitol was pre-planned. Substantial materiel was used in the attack: sledgehammers, ladders, loudhailers, chemical sprays, helmets, weapons and the like. Apparently, extremists left the rally early to retrieve that materiel given that they couldn’t bring them to the rally. Chatter before the attack foreshadowed the attack. On the one hand, a good lawyer would defend Trumpon this basis: extremists had pre-planned the attack, so Trump’s behaviour at the rally couldn’t have incited them. On the other, Trump’s administration must have been made aware of the threat posed by the militants and yet sent the army down to the Capitol that the extremists needed to overwhelm security.

Then there are suspicions of inside help given to the extremists. One House Democrat witnessed groups being shown around the Capitol despite public tours being suspended due to Covid. They must have been signed in by Congressional insiders. Ali Alexander, who runs Stop the Steal, says he was working with some GOP Congressmen. One moron, QAnon GOP Congresswoman Lauren Bobert, actually live-tweeted Nancy Pelosi’s whereabouts during the siege.

Investigators will be chasing down who funded the flights and accomodation for the insurrectionists. The FBI’s strong suit is following the money.

Did Trump let it be known Insurrectionists would be pardoned? The failure of many extremists to hide their faces makes you wonder.

An early trial wouldn’t allow any Senators to act on any suspicions. But investigations may well disclose evidence which will blow Trump out of the water.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2876 –
I love the meme! Though, I’m sure there was never any limit on what Rudy was prepared to do for Trump ...

Funny that reports are that Trump is now telling his minions to stiff Rudy by refusing to pay him for legal fees. Surely Rudy demanded payment up front? That’s Trump 101.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2877 –
Quote from: Mav – on
I love the meme! Though, I’m sure there was never any limit on what Rudy was prepared to do for Trump ...

Funny that reports are that Trump is now telling his minions to stiff Rudy by refusing to pay him for legal fees. Surely Rudy demanded payment up front? That’s Trump 101.

 :))  :))  :))
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2878 –
So now the lawyer for the QAnon Sharman (the guy with the headdress warpaint and carrying a big spear) has told CNN that Trump should pardon him because he was only in the Capitol because Trump had told him (as part of the crowd) to do so.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2879 –
Quote from: Mav – on
So now the lawyer for the QAnon Sharman (the guy with the headdress warpaint and carrying a big spear) has told CNN that Trump should pardon him because he was only in the Capitol because Trump had told him (as part of the crowd) to do so.

I have been wondering whether the POTUS will pardon the insurrectionists.  Surely, he is not so malevolent  :-\
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball