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Topic: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) (Read 843006 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2970 –
Voter fraud, Russian interference. Same crap.

People pick their team and barrack for them.

2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2971 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Voter fraud, Russian interference. Same crap.

People pick their team and barrack for them.

Weren't both of those intended to help Trump win ? They were both intended to spread false information and / or baseless claims, to sow the seeds of doubt and inhibit the Dems chances of victory. And the latter is, from what I can tell, now accepted as either historical fact or very likely to have occurred.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2972 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Voter fraud, Russian interference. Same crap.

People pick their team and barrack for them.

I seriously doubt that after nearly 200 pages in this thread there have been many (if any) who have swapped sides on the basis of the points made.
Interesting discussion but not really influential.
Some opinions might have 'hardened' but not many switches.

You know the bizarre thing...If Biden hadn't lost his son, and motivation, and had been the Democratic candidate in 2016 this thread would have probably ended 4 years ago.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2973 –
Why would we want to change minds? Few if any of those who have posted in this thread can vote in US elections and I doubt search engines would have funnelled American internet surfers our way or else I’d have been inundated with death threats.

But don’t treat it like whether you like Star Trek or Star Wars or vanilla over pistachio ice cream. This wasn’t just a litmus test regarding political attitudes. Trump was clearly unfit to be a national leader, especially of the most powerful country in the world. He was capable of inflicting great harm on everyone, not just Americans. That we largely escaped unharmed wasn’t due to any moderation on his part. If he’d been able to steal this election, he would have smashed the few chains that stopped him from being a dictator.

At least Germans after the war mostly disowned Hitler and denied having supported him. Those who continue to support Trump after he went full-on fascist by inciting an insurrection should do some soul-searching. Trump did us a favour by saying the quiet part out loud so no one can pretend he was just misunderstood.

Here’s a tip going forward. When the next aspiring tyrant has a psychologist niece who warns s/he is a malignant narcissist who is incapable of compassion or empathy but derives sadistic satisfaction from hurting others and other psychiatric experts echo that warning, maybe don’t cheer him/her on  ::)

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2974 –
Quote from: Mav – on
Why would we want to change minds? Few if any of those who have posted in this thread can vote in US elections and I doubt search engines would have funnelled American internet surfers our way or else I’d have been inundated with death threats.

But don’t treat it like whether you like Star Trek or Star Wars or vanilla over pistachio ice cream. This wasn’t just a litmus test regarding political attitudes. Trump was clearly unfit to be a national leader, especially of the most powerful country in the world. He was capable of inflicting great harm on everyone, not just Americans. That we largely escaped unharmed wasn’t due to any moderation on his part. If he’d been able to steal this election, he would have smashed the few chains that stopped him from being a dictator.

At least Germans after the war mostly disowned Hitler and denied having supported him. Those who continue to support Trump after he went full-on fascist by inciting an insurrection should do some soul-searching. Trump did us a favour by saying the quiet part out loud so no one can pretend he was just misunderstood.

Here’s a tip going forward. When the next aspiring tyrant has a psychologist niece who warns s/he is a malignant narcissist who is incapable of compassion or empathy but derives sadistic satisfaction from hurting others and other psychiatric experts echo that warning, maybe don’t cheer him/her on  ::)

We all have different levels of perception of the last four years...You're definitely not a fan, and there are many who agree with you some even more fanatically....but that's your feelings.
Others feel similar, but slightly less intense (that's probably where I fit) .
Then there are others who regard Trump as pretty hard done by.

Not many come to these discussions without a pre-conceived bias, and once here rarely change their minds.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2975 –
Quote from: Mav – on
Why would we want to change minds? Few if any of those who have posted in this thread can vote in US elections and I doubt search engines would have funnelled American internet surfers our way or else I’d have been inundated with death threats.

But don’t treat it like whether you like Star Trek or Star Wars or vanilla over pistachio ice cream. This wasn’t just a litmus test regarding political attitudes. Trump was clearly unfit to be a national leader, especially of the most powerful country in the world. He was capable of inflicting great harm on everyone, not just Americans. That we largely escaped unharmed wasn’t due to any moderation on his part. If he’d been able to steal this election, he would have smashed the few chains that stopped him from being a dictator.

At least Germans after the war mostly disowned Hitler and denied having supported him. Those who continue to support Trump after he went full-on fascist by inciting an insurrection should do some soul-searching. Trump did us a favour by saying the quiet part out loud so no one can pretend he was just misunderstood.

Here’s a tip going forward. When the next aspiring tyrant has a psychologist niece who warns s/he is a malignant narcissist who is incapable of compassion or empathy but derives sadistic satisfaction from hurting others and other psychiatric experts echo that warning, maybe don’t cheer him/her on  ::)
I'd suggest Hitler and more importantly the Nazi ideology had plenty of support after the war, the allies tried to employ denazification but didnt have the resources to carry it out as member/affiliated numbers were too high. Anti Communism was the theme that allowed the Hitler and the Nazis to gather support and that was even more prevalent when the war finished.
Patriotism was the only factor in the USA entering WWII after it was attacked by the Japanese, before that it was happy to stay out of it and make money selling transport/arms.
Trump with his anti China us vs them theme sold Patriotism as well, make America great again, think Adolf had the same line with make Germany great again or words to that effect. Trump got in on the back of his selling the Patriotic dream like Hitler did and it took a world war and a world pandemic to get rid of both of them but the hard core support was always there and always will be IMHO.
 I worked with some German Engineers who were kids during the war and they still believed in some of the Nazi concepts and ideals....There is always someone willing to buy what a tyrant is selling when they promise a better life and have the right sales pitch.
 

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2976 –
It's probably stating the obvious, but I think Howie Hawkins is right. The 2020 election was a referendum on Trump, nothing more and nothing less. There was precious little time devoted to policy or any other substantive issues. 4 years wasted watching this complete train wreck and oxygen thief of a human lurch from one trash tweet /statement/ action to the next. It's a sad day when the greatest triumph of this election is getting rid of one individual.

I also agree with Hawkins that the honeymoon under Biden will be short lived.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2977 –
In my life time Obama is the only president who hasn't been a joker.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2978 –
EB, yep, no doubt there wasn’t an overnight 180. But it was useful that most Germans wanted to deny that they had personally supported the Nazis even if they were in it up to their eye balls. The ban on display of Nazi paraphernalia and the prohibition on Holocaust denial helped too. In contrast, the US has allowed the Deep South to repackage the Confederacy as the noble Lost Cause, ended reconstruction by allowing Jim Crow laws to practically enslave Black Americans, and allows the racists to pretend the Confederacy was just defending State rights rather than trying to perpetuate slavery. No doubt the racists plan on whitewashing Trump’s legacy too.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2979 –
His baptism of fire in only just beginning.  He already knows his mandatory 100 day wearing of masks will fail (but fine because he's at least trying) but the challenges on the international front will give him major headaches, tempered somewhat by the fact they're in similar trouble.  Poking the bear that is the second impeachment is plain dumb.  That's far from "healing", just more provocation.

 

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2980 –
There’s an incredibly high bar, it seems, when it comes to assessing provocative behaviour in the US. And no doubt the impressive right-wing capacity to forget outrages will mean no long-term damage will be done.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2981 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
In my life time Obama is the only president who hasn't been a joker.
And yet I have US friends and colleagues (not Trumpets) who say he was one of the worst. I don't follow US politics at all, he seemed like a very smart and personable guy to me. Some of the others have come across as jokers as you say.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2982 –
What I find most depressing is the fact that when faced with the clearest choice at the election between a candidate promising to restore normality to the country and a self absorbed, lying, narcissistic president clearly prepared to tear up the constitution to remain in power, more than ninety million voters could not be bothered getting off their backsides to cast their vote.

When that number is added to the seventy million angry white, gun toting, illiterate and semi-literate Trumpers , the magnitude of the task facing Biden appears almost insurmountable.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2983 –


[/quote]
Quote from: Macca37 – on
What I find most depressing is the fact that when faced with the clearest choice at the election between a candidate promising to restore normality to the country and a self absorbed, lying, narcissistic president clearly prepared to tear up the constitution to remain in power, more than ninety million voters could not be bothered getting off their backsides to cast their vote.

When that number is added to the seventy million angry white, gun toting, illiterate and semi-literate Trumpers , the magnitude of the task facing Biden appears almost insurmountable.

It's not a clear choice, that's the problem.

I post on an American sports forum and last election a poster there who was one of the first members of the BLM group shocked the whole forum by saying he couldn't vote for Hillary as she was despicable and that he wasn't voting. Another member asked gun to your head Trump or Clinton and he said Trump.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2984 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
It's not a clear choice, that's the problem.
In an absolute frame perhaps it's a lesser of two evils, but in a relative frame between those two candidates there is no contest.

So I'm clearly in agreement with @Macca37‍.

That is the problem with Trump's apologists, they claim one is just as bad as the other but that would be relative to what or who, Mother Teresa, Gandhi, etc., etc..?

Claiming Trump's behaviour is equivalent to anybody, is clearly an absurdity that makes further debate moot, like comparing the murder of Victor Chang to that of Muammar Gaddafi
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"