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Topic: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) (Read 798292 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #3510 –
MBB and Spotted One... little point trading blows on who is more to blame, Trump or Biden. Bottom line is that it is a US cultural thing and each, in his own way, has done more to inflame than unite.

The wheels of revolution and more violence are rolling in the US (when have they not!), so the bigger question is who can step in and unite? Dig up Abe?
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #3511 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
People are free to make their own direct / indirect causal links between words and actions, but facts are facts. Only one of Biden and Trump have regularly and consistently called for violence against those they either don't like or perceive to be their enemies.
The victims will mostly be collateral damage, someone walking down the street with their child, surely the nutters aren't so stupid to believe it can't be themselves!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #3512 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
MBB and Spotted One...
There are no blows being traded here, .............. just disclosure.

What's happened is a disgrace, but the root cause is unequivocal, and some posts are just a confirmation.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #3513 –
The level of abuse isn't confined to one side.
Since Trump first entered the Presidential races back in 2016 it's been constant from both sides.
Biden doesn't use the same vitriol as Trump but his underlings and supporters certainly do.



Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #3514 –
American idiot?
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #3516 –
Quote from: Lods – on
The level of abuse isn't confined to one side.
Since Trump first entered the Presidential races back in 2016 it's been constant from both sides.
Biden doesn't use the same vitriol as Trump but his underlings and supporters certainly do.
Very true, however I'd assert a couple of things;
- It's the person in the leadership role that really matters, 1000x more than others.
- The vitriol is largely asymmetric.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #3517 –
Trading a few insults and barbs has been part of the political landscape since forever. That has nothing to do with a systematic and persistent campaign to incite violence, which is almost exclusively coming from one side.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #3518 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
That has nothing to do with a systematic and persistent campaign to incite violence, which is almost exclusively coming from one side.
@Lods is correct, it's not exclusive it does come from both sides, but the sheer volume of vitriol from one side of the debate is so extreme it seems like it is exclusive.

Today they claim "God saved him!", but if you truly believe in God you cannot cherry pick Gods word, and apparently God also taught "You reap what you sow!"

They will reap what they sow, my problem with that is the collateral damage to many many innocent individuals that is coming, and ironically it will be the financially weak and battlers that it bites the most, yet they are also the ones clinging to the shallow and hollow promises.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #3519 –
Quote from: LP – on
@Lods is correct, it's not exclusive it does come from both sides, but the sheer volume of vitriol from one side of the debate is so extreme it seems like it is exclusive.

Today they claim "God saved him!", but if you truly believe in God you cannot cherry pick Gods word, and apparently God also taught "You reap what you sow!"

They will reap what they sow, my problem with that is the collateral damage to many many innocent individuals that is coming, and ironically it will be the financially weak and battlers that it bites the most, yet they are also the ones clinging to the shallow and hollow promises.

You can google "History of Trump inciting violence", then do the same for Biden. Then take the individuals out of it and substitute "Democrats" and "Republicans". I'll let you draw your own conclusions. Whilst I understand what you're saying, it's not Democrat supporters who are tearing the joint down and calling for bloodshed. The data simply does not support the "two sides contribute" idea.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #3520 –
Quote from: LP – on
@Lods is correct, it's not exclusive it does come from both sides, but the sheer volume of vitriol from one side of the debate is so extreme it seems like it is exclusive.

It probably does, but is that a view we form because of where we source our news?
I made a joke about watching Fox, CNN and MSNBC in equal measures the other day so that I could get a 'balanced view'.
It's actually true that I do switch around a bit of a morning and it's funny watching the same piece of news being treated totally differently by competing organisations.
I've seen may examples of over the top comments by Democrats that rival some of the things Trump says....and the strange thing is that's usually on the left leaning networks.

Folks who follow Trump arent just the rusted on MAGA folk as we saw last election when he got nearly half the vote.
Those people aren't all Right Wing Nut Jobs.
They are more likely, as we move to the centre of the spectrum, just middle of the road folk who slightly favour one side.
There's a great divide in that country.
Words matter and they trigger both left and right.
The further left and right the greater the trigger...and the greater the potential for extreme reactions.

The problem is that the genie is out of the bottle.
There may be a pause, but in a week or two normal hostilities will be renewed.
Already there is criticism of Biden's speech that was meant to smooth the waters this morning,
 

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #3521 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
You can google "History of Trump inciting violence", then do the same for Biden. Then take the individuals out of it and substitute "Democrats" and "Republicans". I'll let you draw your own conclusions. Whilst I understand what you're saying, it's not Democrat supporters who are tearing the joint down and calling for bloodshed. The data simply does not support the "two sides contribute" idea.

The problem is that "Google" is a tool for bias.
And it's dependent on how you 'word' your search.
You can find whatever you want to support a point of view.
Google "Trump is not my President 2016" and you'll find Democrats lining up to say there is no legitimacy to his initial Presidency.

Let me emphasise, I'm no fan of Donald Trump.
I see serious issues for not just America, but the World, especially Ukraine, if he is elected.
If I was a voter in America I'd be voting for the Democrat, even if it was Biden, who I have serious reservations regarding his deteriation issues.
But the causes of the divide in the USA is not just one sided.
We'll have to agree to disagree as to the balance.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #3522 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
The data simply does not support the "two sides contribute" idea.
I don't think anyone has claimed the insults and accusations are the same or equivalent from both sides, but both sides do contribute in their own way quite differently. It's a more general commentary about the USA as a society.

I've mentioned before, across many facets they seem to accept the philosophy of redemption, and to be redeemed you must first lose your way. Both sides do not hesitate at throwing the first stone, it seems to be the USA's accept path to being saved, and it's not just a Christian phenomenon.



"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #3523 –
Quote from: Lods – on
The problem is that "Google" is a tool for bias.
And it's dependent on how you 'word' your search.
You can find whatever you want to support a point of view.
Google "Trump is not my President 2016" and you'll find Democrats lining up to say there is no legitimacy to his initial Presidency.

Let me emphasise, I'm no fan of Donald Trump.
I see serious issues for not just America, but the World, especially Ukraine, if he is elected.
If I was a voter in America I'd be voting for the Democrat, even if it was Biden, who I have serious reservations regarding his deteriation issues.
But the causes of the divide in the USA is not just one sided.
We'll have to agree to disagree as to the balance.

I'm not sure we're discussing the same thing. I was more about the words and rhetoric coming from Trump and other Republicans (too many to mention) designed to incite violence. The divisions, problems and disintegration in America, at least my mind, is a whole other topic.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #3524 –
The Democrat/Republican thing in one respect is difficult for us in Oz to grasp. In the US, whether you're a Democrat or Republican is like what football team you barrack for. Bluntly, they're nuts for one or another for about 70 or 80% of the population.

In Oz if either of our major party leaders presented like Biden at the moment and/or Trump... they wouldn't last a week. Yes, our system affords us that luxury. Most Democrats and Republicans make all manner of way out excuses for their leader, even when they're clearly not fit to lead a penguin parade, such is their welded on barracking. So where do you go from there!!
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17