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Topic: Murphy to lead again in 2017 (Read 34201 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Murphy to lead again in 2017

Reply #60 –
That's a most extraordinary interpretation of events.

Re: Murphy to lead again in 2017

Reply #61 –
Malthouse believed he had the expertise in house and he did to a certain degree in some of his assistants. 

My son is a leadership development professional and his offsider is a former AFL coach who got his job partly on the basis of his work with Leading Teams - a very highly regarded organisation.  I can't divulge his name but I have had some interesting insights into what went on at our club.  To say that Malthouse weeded out undesirables is gilding the lily.

Anyway, the discussion is not about Malthouse, it's about how seriously Bolton takes leadership development and I think he is streets ahead of all of our past coaches.

It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Murphy to lead again in 2017

Reply #62 –
Leading Teams is something I cant get a handle on in terms of results...Geelong attribute their early success in their recent premierships in part to Leading teams yet a club like Melbourne went through the same program and had no success especially in developing leaders etc.
I remember Jason Akermanis writing articles and saying it was a negative experience and only got players offside when they received frank assessments from team-mates....Gary Ablett jr wasnt a fan either and I thought straight away about his father and how he would have coped...
Not sure how Leading teams has evolved in delivering their programs and if they do cater for Individuals like Aker, Ablett etc but it wouldnt be an easy tasks with all the different personalities that go to make up a football club.
I'm of the opinion Leaders are born Leaders rather than created through intense development programs etc...sure you can make them better by training but there is something intrinsic that Leaders have in their makeup that Non Leaders dont IMO...
I dont see Marc Murphy as that natural born leader...

Re: Murphy to lead again in 2017

Reply #63 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Leading Teams is something I cant get a handle on in terms of results...Geelong attribute their early success in their recent premierships in part to Leading teams yet a club like Melbourne went through the same program and had no success especially in developing leaders etc.
I remember Jason Akermanis writing articles and saying it was a negative experience and only got players offside when they received frank assessments from team-mates....Gary Ablett jr wasnt a fan either and I thought straight away about his father and how he would have coped...
Not sure how Leading teams has evolved in delivering their programs and if they do cater for Individuals like Aker, Ablett etc but it wouldnt be an easy tasks with all the different personalities that go to make up a football club.
I'm of the opinion Leaders are born Leaders rather than created through intense development programs etc...sure you can make them better by training but there is something intrinsic that Leaders have in their makeup that Non Leaders dont IMO...
I dont see Marc Murphy as that natural born leader...

I suspect that's old thinking EB.

Many years ago the green machine tried to make me a leader and came up short.  I remember my guidance officer saying that I readily assumed a leadership role when playing footy or basketball but it wasn't evident when leading men in combat (thankfully only ever with blanks).  Fast forward ten years and the fundamentals of leadership started to take shape.  With training and experience I became a more than competent leader of a diverse and quite challenging team of 50 people; not bad for a shy introvert lacking in self confidence.

I think that many folk have the potential to be leaders but need some work before they can realise that potential.

From what I'm hearing, Murphy is a born leader who has thrived under the leadership development program.  John Murphy wasn't a bad skipper and, whether it's nature or nurture, that seems to have given Marc a head start.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Murphy to lead again in 2017

Reply #64 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
That's a most extraordinary interpretation of events.

That's quite an understatement  :)
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Murphy to lead again in 2017

Reply #65 –
Kruddler is spot on. Mick actually started the "reset".
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Murphy to lead again in 2017

Reply #66 –
Clearly the current fashion for fake news and fake reality is sweeping through CSC. 

Re: Murphy to lead again in 2017

Reply #67 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Kruddler is spot on. Mick actually started the "reset".

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

I've always been of the opinion that our players have been our major issue. Time and time again their lack of effort and dedication has seen our coaches sacked.

People have been calling Gibbs soft and lazy since he started. Looks disinterested and goes missing too often. He has been one of our leaders at the club, even since the Pagan days. What kind of role model has he been?

Murphy voted in as captain is another questionable choice. Supposedly the club made the call on that one, not the coach - who if rumours are correct, wanted Carrazzo as captain (or was it Simpson?). In any result, Murphy would've been my 3rd choice. I think this stunt by the club was good for marketing, not for the team.

-Waite as our key forward who gets suspended for stupid things each and every year, tried chasing money/years despite having a failing body. Bye.
-Laidler was a solid player who didn't want to add another string to his bow to help him get more game time, cracked the sads mid-season, publicly. See ya later.
-Henderson was a bloke who had a lot of potential, but lost his internal drive and commitment and put in some of the worst performances in final year. Checked out mentally too often. See ya later.
-Yarran had about as much talent as anyone, but playing football seemed to become his second priority.  Clearly evident since his departure from AFL altogether.
-Betts by his own admission was doing the wrong things. He needed a change of scenery to get himself out of the rut he was in.
-Robbo couldn't adjust to the public life of a professional footballer and found himself in trouble repeatedly. So much so that he was almost lost to the AFL altogether. Lions gave him a late second chance.
-Garlett seemed to lose his internal drive that saw him come from sleeping in his car to an AFL rookie playing in his first year. Off-field issues hurt his football which included lying to his club and teammates.


There was also a clear shift in the type of players we were drafting.
I think one year we drafted 4 or so players who were captains of their respective teams. Nick Graham year from memory. There are other examples of players who were kept over others who were delisted which fits the above narrative.

When Malthouse got to the club, i wanted him to go through the place with a broom and weed out the players who didn't want to be there. In his time in charge he got rid of half the list and started shaping it into a list that had the right character on it. Unfortunately that meant we lost a large amount of talent along with it....and the trigger happy Carlton folk couldn't wait to pull the trigger. The external pressure was too great. He'd lost the media, and that led to a loss of support from everyone at Carlton from supporters to the board. At the end of the day he didn't do himself any favours in that regard and he had to go. No issue here.

But still....the groundwork had been done.
White and Armfield types were regulars who, unlike Laidler, were willing to play wherever was best for the team and were doing their role well. This continues to this day and Bolton has ran with it.

No issues with what Bolton has done in terms of leadership, but he was clearly giving a head start with what Malthouse had done.
 

Re: Murphy to lead again in 2017

Reply #68 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Clearly the current fashion for fake news and fake reality is sweeping through CSC.

I think its pretty hard to argue otherwise.

It wasnt done well, and we have had to clear a few that we recruited under Malthouse, but to quote Carrots "mick gutted the list".

That effectively began our rebuild, like it or hate it.

We have definitely sorted out who wants to be here vs who doesn't as part of that process.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Murphy to lead again in 2017

Reply #69 –
Hard core Pravda journalists would be envious of some of the propaganda on here.

Malthouse's time at Carlton = nothing priced like something.

Re: Murphy to lead again in 2017

Reply #70 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
I find the idea that Malthouse was/is considered a zealot of club culture ludicrous...he had different rules for different players at Collingwood and had clear barriers develop between his younger and older players.

...yet none of this is relevant to his time at Carlton.

Do you disagree that he had a large part in shaping the list?

Re: Murphy to lead again in 2017

Reply #71 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Hard core Pravda journalists would be envious of some of the propaganda on here.

Malthouse's time at Carlton = nothing priced like something.

Someone can not be wrong 100% of the time, just as someone can not be right 100% of the time.

Your anti-mick stance is such that you believe  everything he ever did was wrong and to suggest otherwise is wrong.

Mick won us a final...and did other good things as well. The sooner you accept it the better off we'll be.

Re: Murphy to lead again in 2017

Reply #72 –
The unraveling of the old bad culture at CFC is certainly a non-trivial exercise which will continue to test our current coaching and recruitment staff for a year or two yet. However, I'm pretty happy with what we've seen so far and confident that they will eventually be successful, but ask me again at the end of 2017!

As far as previous regimes are concerned, and without subscribing to a particular ideological position, the appointment of MM was, as it turned out, based on a completely erroneous assessment as to where we were at as a club at the time. In short, the wrong coach for the wrong time. As far as list changes were concerned, I think that despite the loss of certain well regarded players (by some) we needed rejuvenation, come what may. When an organisation becomes stale, changes in personnel become vital  - if you want people to change you have to change the people. Not true maybe in every case, some are more amenable than others and you have to be good at making the right changes!
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Murphy to lead again in 2017

Reply #73 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
...yet none of this is relevant to his time at Carlton.

Do you disagree that he had a large part in shaping the list?

Going over old ground here but I'll play..Dont agree..I think its relevant to his time at Carlton, he was happy to go with his old ways and  the Navy Blue rat pack initially when he was promising premierships and Nirvana to the faithful when he arrived at the club....agree?
Mick the Re-Builder/Shaper appeared after he had to admit he mis-judged the capabilities of the list and he was looking for a get out of jail card to save his job and try and get an extension, he did start shaping the clubs list by getting rid of players.. some who deserved it and some who didnt...Bolton and SOS have had to fix the list he miss-shaped....IMO.

Re: Murphy to lead again in 2017

Reply #74 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Someone can not be wrong 100% of the time, just as someone can not be right 100% of the time.

Your anti-mick stance is such that you believe  everything he ever did was wrong and to suggest otherwise is wrong.

Mick won us a final...and did other good things as well. The sooner you accept it the better off we'll be.

On a personal level, I've never liked Mick, but that's neither here nor there. I wanted him to succeed at CFC more than you will ever realize.

His coaching record includes 3 flags. Whether this is considered an under or over or fair achievement, I will leave for others to debate. His record at the Dogs, Weagles and Pies was fair enough. I don't begrudge him that.

His record at our club stank to high heaven.

Every new coach that arrives at a club will seek to remake the list in their own image. Whether they do this straight away, or wait a season will vary. Lists are gutted all the time. I fail to see why he or any other coach should get credit for a process that is almost routine.

The players that many on here consider lacking commitment, lacking talent, head cases etc. has us regularly in finals. Malthouse supposedly replaced these players with players that had the right attitude - like Dre Everitt, Kristian Jaksch, Clem Smith, Jayden Foster, Dillon Viojo-Rainbow and Blaine Boekhorst. All recruited under Mick's watch. All except Boeky have done zilch.

I have no personal issue with Daisy, but his time at the club has been an epic fail. He was brought to the club against the advice of the club doctor, as our friend Jofo will attest.

Mick was given carte blanche when he arrived to do as he pleased. Whatever good things he did during his time here are not apparent to me.