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Re: Squad for JLT game named

Reply #165 –
I was at the game and concur with most of what has been said thus far. I wasn't going along to the game with great expectations but I was expecting effort. The fact that I could notice lack of effort from some very early in the game was disappointing. If this was by design then I don't get it.

A team in out situation needs to have naturally competitive players who despite any situation will provide maximum effort no matter what. It engenders an all in it together philosophy throughout the team and lets the opposition know that we're never out of it.

I can forgive skill errors and decision making but I won't accept lack of effort, especially from our recognised leaders. Murph and Gibbs were not providing the best example to our newbies and thats disappointing. By contrast I thought Simmo could say he provided maximum effort whilst on the  ground. Didn't he get the memo?

Marchbank, Fisher, Pickett gave some indication that they have something to offer going forward and Le Bois provided a nice highlight. I thought Kreuze moved well and did some good things, Weitering was solid, Ed tried with minimal impact, Charlie was OK without being spectacular. There were a lot of players that didn't contribute much. We clearly missed Crippa around the ball. Why are we persisting with Daisy?

The fact that some players can turn effort on and off and that this has been going on for too long is a worry and is one reason we've been crap for so long. I know its a pre season game in Summer and I didn't care about the result, but I expected better. Am I wrong to think this way? 

Re: Squad for JLT game named

Reply #166 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Having read all the comments on here, Bolton's after match comments, highlights and the like, I think it's obvious that the boys were just going through the motions, almost certainly under instruction. Bolton didn't sound like he cared, the boys were just jogging around etc. Minimal effort just to show up and participate.

As Lods said, different teams approach the pre season differently. The Swans under Roos were notorious for treating the pre season as a joke, and Roos made this pretty clear on a few occasions.

So if we're serving this up for pre season, fine. If this is what we bring in Round 1,  watch out.

It was all about the metrics Paul, as Craig said in his JLT preview.

One of the pleasing aspects was that blokes who haven't played much footy ran out the game and showed a bit.  Among that group, Marchbank was a stand out for me.  He started a bit slowly but found his rhythm and really started to look the part. 

On the flipside, while Thomas had a reasonable third quarter, he seems to have lost the ability to find space and time.  He seems to be always under pressure when he gets the ball and is rarely effective or creative With his use of the ball.  It was only one game but I suspect that the 5th year is looking shaky.

It was good to see Murphy back and not suffering any ill-effects from his ankle injury.  His bitch-slapping of Viney was unexpected but not unwelcome  :)
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Squad for JLT game named

Reply #167 –
My hope is that Bolts told the boys "Do what you like, just don't get reported, don't blow a gasket, and don't get injured."

My hope is that, just like the Swans under Roos, we can "flick a switch", and be ready to roll and play serious footy in Round 1, irrespective of what we dish up in the pre season. Hope springs eternal.

@SOS Rules - not wrong or right, just your perspective.

Feel bad for Gorringe. Hope, hope, hope it's only minor.

Re: Squad for JLT game named

Reply #168 –
Quote from: jeza – on
Well that was pretty rank.


POSITIVES?

IT'S ONLY PRESEASON!!!

Melbourne did play last week so they're ahead of us and looked it. Important fact. And we didn't work hard off the ball at all.

Bolton seemed to be operating his minimal bench rotations in preseason to harden everyone's running ability so this will have contributed to the exhaustion our players seemed to be experiencing - and led to fatigue and many bad decisions and poor disposal.

Pickett!
Looks fit and looks like he's got the goods. Wish he'd played the whole game and further up the ground. Yep. Agree.

Smedts was ok I thought but didn't look best suited to the tight game. I like his agility. Yep, some very good signs with this bloke.

Backline and forward line almost get a pass from me today. It was impossible to judge how good/bad they were on today's effort from the midfield who should be embarrassed by what they dished up. Bingo!

I've been saying for some time - Weitering has to play forward. It's where we most need him. He looks a natural up there for me. Kicked 1. All but kicked a second (into the breeze) and played a big part in at least 1 more. Looks so much bigger than last year. Real presence on the ground. We might be the only two who would love to see him up forward.

Fisher looks like a real get. Thank god he's short otherwise he'd never have made it to pick 25. You got it, a good number of folks in the crowd thought the very same thing. His intent, attack on the aggot and man (opposite to Cuningham) was first rate.

Marchbank looks the goods also. Was probably our best. Right on Mr B (sorry, younger cats won't get the 'Mr B' reference' - Google Brashs).

Cripps didn't play and he constitutes half our team as far as I'm concerned. SPS was also missing. I also think A Silvagni has to play. Must be so far in front of White it's ridiculous SW played. A Silvagni is a must.


NEGATIVES

We were horrible. Reminded me of the games against StK last year when we got pumped. Mids were unable to apply any pressure and when that happens Bolton's system breaks down completely.

Docherty was absolutely putrid. If he did one good thing for the day I missed it. Dropped easy marks and generally played like he was wearing a pair of oven mittens. Was my worst on the ground mostly because I know he can be so much better. 100% agree, he caused many groans in the crowd, doubt we'll ever see a game like that again from the Doc.

Thomas is officially done. Close to Docherty in the 'putrid' stakes.

Kerridge is waaaay too slow as is Curnow, White, Wright and Gibbs and we can't play them all together. Guys like Polson / Williamson / Pickett should be played in front of the Kerridge/Thomas types. Tick.

Cunningham worries me. He has an unhappy knack of playing entire quarters with zero pos. Did start to look better late in the game but was COMPLETELY anonymous in the first 3 quarters. Lacks intent and that's been my knock on him since watching him in the twos. Does some nice things but then retires for a hour or so.

LeBois is still some way off (despite his goal of the year) but Pickett is way in front of him based on today.

Gibbs had little impact and Murphy less than zero. There has always been something uninspiring about those 2.

Cripps & Weitering should be our leaders sooner rather than later. Yep.

Well said. I don't know if you were at yesterday's game but it sure sounds like you were at the same game I was!

Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Squad for JLT game named

Reply #169 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Well said. I don't know if you were at yesterday's game but it sure sounds like you were at the same game I was!

Agree with the sentiments re. Weitering. We desperately need someone with some real footy nous in our F50 (as well as the ability to kick goals) and perhaps he'd be able to direct some of the lesser lights there as to what to do and where to go? Depends who we've got coming through for the defensive roles but we know that Marchbank and A. Silvagni are two options.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Squad for JLT game named

Reply #170 –
Hard to not be really disappointed and frustrated by what they served up yesterday - but it's only mid Feb and our first proper hit out.

The good;
- Levi looked fit and mobile, took some nice marks and the kicking looked better
- Matt K competed well and worked hard around the ball. With Gorringe & Philipps injured he has a massive load to carry.
- Marchbank looked really poised.Got better as the game went on.
- Pickett showed some glimpses. Given how poor our forward line was he can only help
- Harry moved well, showed intent and looks like a footballer
- Charlie C kept at it and got a few nice touches when he went in the middle. He has a crack.
- Fisher showed he has some spark and good skills
- Simmo kept trying, but some of his disposal and being such a one sided player hurt his teammates

The bad;
- Daisy. Started like he finished last year. Intent on avoiding tackles and doesn't set up play like you want from a player with his experience [and coin]
- Gibbs & Murphy. Provided zero leadership or presence on the game. Strolled around and gave shi**y handballs to guys under pressure. Contrast their games with what Jones, Viney and Lewis served up for Melbourne. If those 2 don't play well we are not competitive, as we saw at the back end of last year.
- Tackle pressure was atrocious. 15 players had 1 tackle or less. They basically did what they wanted with the ball.
- We look soft and small around the ball. We just got pushed around by the Melbourne bigger bodies. Cripps can't do it all, and our lack of hard midfielders is going to hurt us
- The forward line is STILL a shambles. 6 marks inside 50 for the game [vs 21 for Melbourne]. We had 3 talls fly for the ball at times, we were constantly outnumbered when the ball hit the ground, tackle pressure was poor and they moved the ball from their kickouts with ease.
- Buckley and White. I still have no idea why these 2 guys are on the list. They have shown so little over such a long period, and they continue to dish up the same dross but keep getting a game. Complete non events yesterday.
- Cunningham and Silvagni. Wanted to see a lot more intensity and effort from 2nd year players who are trying to cement a spot. Both had zero impact on the game.

I have predicted all along we will be bottom 4 because we have limited midfield depth and no forward line, and nothing I saw yesterday tells me differently. Given our structural and personnel issues the only way we will cause problems for other teams is if we play with manic intensity and effort, and what I saw yesterday was a mile away from that. I can't imagine how that could have been an instruction from the coaches.

Melbourne have got a very balanced side now, and when they aren't under pressure [like yesterday] they look very good. There midfield is much deeper and stronger than ours, and they have a pretty potent forward line with good balance - they could easily make the 8 this year.



Re: Squad for JLT game named

Reply #171 –
They're all fair points sbf.

It's the example that always get trotted out in these circumstances, but if you cast your mind back to 2005, we won the pre season comp, then won the spoon. Conversely the Swans have never played in a pre season final, and they've done ok in the h/a season.

In fact, as someone else suggested, you can find every pattern imaginable if you do a historical comparison of team performance in the ps v h/a.

The long and short - what happens in the p/s has little bearing on what happens in the h/a.

No doubt yesterday was yucko. I don't have an issue with this in the p/s, but if this is a portent of what to expect in the h/a, then it will be an awful season.

Remember also, we have the highest number of u/21's on our list (I think Emily or Grace said 13), so this may also be a factor. Young bodies IMO can't be relied upon week in week out (through no fault of their own), and this, for the present, contributes to a lack of depth. They will tire as the season progresses, and their bodies won't stand up to the rigours of footy for an entire season. Which then means the senior players carry more load, which then etc..............

Re: Squad for JLT game named

Reply #172 –
Quote from: jeza – on
Bolton seemed to be operating his minimal bench rotations in preseason to harden everyone's running ability so this will have contributed to the exhaustion our players seemed to be experiencing - and led to fatigue and many bad decisions and poor disposal.

We used 22 players in each half (21 after Gorringe went off) while Melbourne used all 26 players.  While that gave Melbourne an advantage, I think Bolton is on the right track in using the pre-season games as preparation for the real thing. 
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Squad for JLT game named

Reply #173 –
The good from yesterday was that it did shine a light on the plodders we have in midfield.

Our best team needs a lot more pace than what we had in yesterday.

SPS is quick. Pickett has to play up the ground more. Armfield should be ahead of quite a few slower players. Fisher has to play.

Pick one of Curnow, Kerridge, Wright and Thomas. Don't play them all in the same team.

Re: Squad for JLT game named

Reply #174 –
jeza,
Curnow and Wright are both in our best 22 IMO. Would both be among the first picked every week.

Re: Squad for JLT game named

Reply #175 –
Nowhere in the press of on the club website, did I see that we have had a full on intra club hit out. Also the 'number of games played together' stat, if one exists, would show that we have an exceptionally high number of players who yesterday would have played 5 or less games together as a group.

Need game time and plenty of it.

Re: Squad for JLT game named

Reply #176 –
I seem to remember that the very first game we played last year was against Drug Cheats FC and they absolutely pantsed us with half a list missing and a bunch of top-ups who had done no preseason.

We didn't do much better in the next two games either.

And then, should really have won in Round 1.

As they say in the classics, 4 weeks is a long time in footy.

I will only get worried if we see the same lack of effort in the real thing.

BTW Melbourne used 8 interchange players throughout the game, while Carlton only used the 4 (as per the normal season).
This is now the longest premiership drought in the history of the Carlton Football Club - more evidence of climate change?

Re: Squad for JLT game named

Reply #177 –
Quote from: jeza – on
The good from yesterday was that it did shine a light on the plodders we have in midfield.

Our best team needs a lot more pace than what we had in yesterday.

SPS is quick. Pickett has to play up the ground more. Armfield should be ahead of quite a few slower players. Fisher has to play.

Pick one of Curnow, Kerridge, Wright and Thomas. Don't play them all in the same team.

Each of those 4 players have some serious issues with their games [either pace, foot skills, tackle pressure, decision making or a combination of all].

But Curnow is the hardest running and fittest midfielder we have who never stops trying and can play a shut down role, and Wright is our smartest small forward and highest goal kicker - so they both get picked each week for the forseeable future.

Kerridge is honest and runs hard, but is pretty slow and his kicking skills and decision making are pretty ordinary. He does put in a solid 4 qtr effort each week, but has serious limitations. He had 20 disposals in half a game yesterday so was far from our worst, but he doesn't really hurt the opposition much. He provides midfield depth, but ideally you don't want him playing every week.

Daisy is a shot duck IMO. I just don't know what role he can play for the team. They seem to have tried him in 3 or 4 different roles last year with very limited success. They might try him as a running HBF now Tuohy has gone, but his pace is gone and he kicks it sideways about 20m. I'd cut my losses on him for sure.

The reality is unless Lamb, Boek, SPS, Cunningham, Charlie C can take a big step up and become consistent midfielders or role players then we left with at least 3 or these in our best 22. I hope like hell that 3 out of those 5 work out, or else we are in deep you know what.

Re: Squad for JLT game named

Reply #178 –
In the real season work rate and experience defeats speed, it's pointless being fast if you do not get the right spots at the right time.

That is why the older smarter guys keep getting games, they do the work to get in the right spot or dispose of an opponent before the ball gets in the area. It's how guys like Gibbs keep racking up 30 possessions a game.

SPS, Pickett, Le Bois, Fischer would just be chasing tails all season because they cannot work their way through the game, where to be and when they have to be there.

Weitering is such a stand out for this reason, he looked smart and ready to work from day one, but by late last season opponents started putting doubt in his head and we saw him caught out of position.

It's naive to think pace is all you need to be a better football option, guys like Mitchell, Lewis, Hodge, Gibson, Viney, Cripps make a mockery of that idea. Betts had plenty of pace his whole career at Carlton, has probably lost some pace now, and is becoming a far better footballer.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"
 

Re: Squad for JLT game named

Reply #179 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
jeza,
Curnow and Wright are both in our best 22 IMO. Would both be among the first picked every week.

Ed Curnow would be in "The 22" of most AFL teams based on recent seasons.

I remember a lot of posters on here telling everyone how bad Laidler was and how he wouldn't get a game at any other club!

How about those who claimed Betts wasn't worth more than $350k, and all but accused him of highway robbery?

The message from those posters seems the same diatribe for just about every player who isn't a flash in the pan speedster or goal kicker.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"