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Topic: Rd 16: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Melbourne (Read 42719 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Rd 16: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #90 –
Quote from: blue4life – on
If Cripps had stayed on the ground we would have, it's just the luck of the draw.

Yeah I hear you.

But no Viney and Tyson and reckon that was the best movement of the ball we have had all year in the first half.

Just frustrating, I am not about wins and losses this year, but we should be at least 7-8 wins already.

 
"We are a club in a hurry"

#united #reset

Re: Rd 16: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #91 –
Quote from: jeza – on
I love your comparison.

Jack Silvagni has kicked 15.14 for the year (most of those misses were from set shots - many of them very gettable). He also hoiked one out on the full which you didn't mention.

Cas has kicked 23.13 for the year. So a full 30% better at shooting for goal than Jack.

Cas is also number 1 in the league for contested marks. Yep - number 1. Yet he's in your view a "stop gap"?

If we lost him to free agency it would be an unmitigated disaster.

I don't get your hatred of Casboult. I had him in our best 2 or 3 players yesterday and top 5 in our B&F.

Firstly,
Jack Silvagni is 18yo.
Levi Casboult is 27.
As such, we expect more from Levi than we do a teenager. Levi didn't play a game until he was 22.

Secondly,
Your %'s are out of whack. AFL website includes missed shots altogether.
Jack (15.14.4(oob) = 45.5%
Levi (23.13.7(oob) = 53.5%

8% difference between them, not 30.

Thirdly,
I've pointed out that it was one of Casboults best games. I have often said that he has the best hands in the league. When i evaluate him, i take all that into account.
2 things really rub me the wrong way with him.
 - He's been in the system for long enough now. He is still struggling with the basics of the game. Mental or otherwise.
 - He simply cannot be relied upon with the ball in his hands to win you the game. Who was the last bloke with a shot on goal for us yesterday? Could've put us 9 points up deep in the last quarter.

Finally,
There is no hatred of him.
Just want for the best for the club. Having a below par key forward will not take us to the ultimate success.

Re: Rd 16: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #92 –
Quote from: jeza – on
Cas is also number 1 in the league for contested marks. Yep - number 1.

I was just checking out the stats and noticed the Docherty is No. 1 for marks this year - 148, 25 ahead of Jeremy Howe on 123.

How the hell did Brisbane Lions let this guy go?!?  :o
Keyboard warrior #24601

Re: Rd 16: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #93 –
Quote from: IvanAwfulbigone – on
I was just checking out the stats and noticed the Docherty is No. 1 for marks this year - 148, 25 ahead of Jeremy Howe on 123.

How the hell did Brisbane Lions let this guy go?!?  :o

For pick 33 no less!
It was a wonderful trade for us, one of the few pluses of the Malthouse years along with the drafting of Cripps. 
Liam Jones could well become another one.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: Rd 16: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #94 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Firstly,
Jack Silvagni is 18yo.
Levi Casboult is 27.
As such, we expect more from Levi than we do a teenager. Levi didn't play a game until he was 22.

Secondly,
Your %'s are out of whack. AFL website includes missed shots altogether.
Jack (15.14.4(oob) = 45.5%
Levi (23.13.7(oob) = 53.5%

8% difference between them, not 30.

Thirdly,
I've pointed out that it was one of Casboults best games. I have often said that he has the best hands in the league. When i evaluate him, i take all that into account.
2 things really rub me the wrong way with him.
 - He's been in the system for long enough now. He is still struggling with the basics of the game. Mental or otherwise.
 - He simply cannot be relied upon with the ball in his hands to win you the game. Who was the last bloke with a shot on goal for us yesterday? Could've put us 9 points up deep in the last quarter.

Finally,
There is no hatred of him.
Just want for the best for the club. Having a below par key forward will not take us to the ultimate success.

This is not a whack at Silvagni - I know he's 19. You're selectively choosing what to compare though to suit a completely bogus argument is what I'm talking about. Ignore the good - embellish the bad.

SOSOS: 29 shots for 4 oob = 12% of his shots go oob
Cas: 43 shots for 7 oob = 16% of his shots go oob

3 oob's in front but has taken 14 more shots... but who really cares when you're leading the comp for contested marks - except some real misery guts with an ax to grind.

Lastly - I know you hate Casboult. I can tell because instead of just acknowledging an excellent performance and leaving it at that you can't help but pick out an irrelevant rubbish stat to make a case against him. He's not perfect but he'd get a game at any other club in the comp right now and if he wasn't there we'd be properly stuffed.
 

Re: Rd 16: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #95 –
Quote from: jeza – on
This is not a whack at Silvagni - I know he's 19. You're selectively choosing what to compare though to suit a completely bogus argument is what I'm talking about. Ignore the good - embellish the bad.

SOSOS: 29 shots for 4 oob = 12% of his shots go oob
Cas: 43 shots for 7 oob = 16% of his shots go oob

3 oob's in front but has taken 14 more shots... but who really cares when you're leading the comp for contested marks - except some real misery guts with an ax to grind.

Lastly - I know you hate Casboult. I can tell because instead of just acknowledging an excellent performance and leaving it at that you can't help but pick out an irrelevant rubbish stat to make a case against him. He's not perfect but he'd get a game at any other club in the comp right now and if he wasn't there we'd be properly stuffed.

I'll forgive your 'knowing i hate casboult', because your comprehension skills are not great. Here's why.
Jack is 18, not 19.

More of Casboults shots go OOB, yes he's taken more, but more go OOB. Your own %'s tell you that. What you are saying suits MY argument, not yours.

I don't buy the rhetoric that Casboult would get a game at any other club or that we'd be stuffed without him. That was the same talk we had when we were going to get rid of Fev. Our best season in recent history came the exact year after we ditched him.

Acknowledging, repeatedly, that Casboult is the best mark in the game is hardly ignoring the good you accuse me of.

Casboult played well. Haven't seen many better games from him.

Answer me this. If a team has their key forward play one of the best games they've had him play. How often does that team lose? How often does that player end up with only 1 goal to his name? The problem i have is that we are celebrating mediocrity.

Casboult tries his guts out more often than not and while he continues to do that i will pick him every game. Same reason i prefer White, Daisy, Fisher types who may not have a complete skill set. That doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for better....and there are better out there.

Re: Rd 16: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #96 –
I think as with all on our list, we celebrate the good, and recognize the bad with Cas.

And our best season since 2002 was 2011 - Fev was sacked at the end of 2009.

Re: Rd 16: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #97 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
I think as with all on our list, we celebrate the good, and recognize the bad with Cas.

And our best season since 2002 was 2011 - Fev was sacked at the end of 2009.

Sorry, you are correct.

We equalled our output in 2010 without fev. (made finals, lost 1st week interstate by under 10 points)
Exceeded the following year.

Re: Rd 16: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #98 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
I think as with all on our list, we celebrate the good, and recognize the bad with Cas.

And our best season since 2002 was 2011 - Fev was sacked at the end of 2009.

Fev was a drunken yobbo but he was four times the footballer Casboult is.
Levi's played every one of his 90 odd games at full forward, averages a tick over a goal a game and has never kicked more than four in a match.
In fact in about 35 of his 90 odd games he's scored donuts.
I couldn't care less if he's a better mark than Sticks Kernahan, a full forward's job is to hit the scoreboard.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: Rd 16: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #99 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Sorry, you are correct.

We equalled our output in 2010 without fev. (made finals, lost 1st week interstate by under 10 points)
Exceeded the following year.

No worries - there are many facts and figures to keep track of, we all get things mixed up sooner or later.

Re: Rd 16: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #100 –
If we kept Fev we could have won the flag in 2011.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Rd 16: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #101 –
Quote from: blue4life – on
Fev was a drunken yobbo but he was four times the footballer Casboult is.
Levi's played every one of his 90 odd games at full forward, averages a tick over a goal a game and has never kicked more than four in a match.
In fact in about 35 of his 90 odd games he's scored donuts.
I couldn't care less if he's a better mark than Sticks Kernahan, a full forward's job is to hit the scoreboard.

Not sure that I'd call Fev a drunken yob, but yes he is 4x the player Casboult is - but then, Fev is 4x better than most forwards.

A rather unfair comparison IMO.

Re: Rd 16: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #103 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Not sure that I'd call Fev a drunken yob, but yes he is 4x the player Casboult is - but then, Fev is 4x better than most forwards.

A rather unfair comparison IMO.

It wasn't meant as a 1 to 1 comparison.

It was about replacing an important part of your structure.

The fact we were essentially able to replace a guy of Fevs talents, should make people more agreeable when it comes to replacing/upgrading Casboult.

Re: Rd 16: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #104 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Not sure that I'd call Fev a drunken yob, but yes he is 4x the player Casboult is - but then, Fev is 4x better than most forwards.

A rather unfair comparison IMO.

Why is it unfair?
Heck, Setanta O'Hailpin played a season and a half at full back and another in the ruck and his goal average was only marginally less than Casboult's, and Brad Fisher's was a fair slice better.
We aren't talking about gun players here.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.