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Re: Carlton 2017 - Review

Reply #45 –
If you look at the ladder, there is four teams at the top, seven teams fighting for positions 5 to 11, three teams in the also rans, and four teams at the bottom, which include us. I thought this year we would finish at the top of the also rans, so I don't think we have achieved what I think we could have. Part of the reason for this is that Bolton at times have played games in a manner which were geared to the future rather than the present. I think we have nailed the past two drafts by getting Silvagni, Samo, McKay, Plowman, Marchbank, Weitering, Fisher, Cunningham, McCreadie, Curnow, Williamson and Pickett. I am hopeful on Polson, Phillips and Kerr and with Cripps, Docherty Byne and Jones, I think we have a pretty solid list for the future. We also have five senior professionals, Murphy Gibbs, Simpson, Kreuzer & E.Curnow. We need to nail this years draft again to really consolidate the future. There are other players on our list such as Graham, Kerridge and Lamb and maybe Smedts and Boekhurst, who could provide backup, while players like Wright, Rowe, A.Silvagni, White and Lamb will always give you 100%

Re: Carlton 2017 - Review

Reply #46 –
10 wins 2018 or questions will be asked.

Re: Carlton 2017 - Review

Reply #47 –
Quote from: pinot – on
10 wins 2018 or questions will be asked.

Only by the idiots.

7 or 8 will be fine. Specially if we recruit like we have in the last 2 years.

We are part way through.
a genuine rebuild.

2019 should see some real improvement I rekon.
I spent most of my money on Women and grog.
The rest I just wasted.

Re: Carlton 2017 - Review

Reply #48 –
Yeah

No, we're tracking well for a final about 2022 ::)

Re: Carlton 2017 - Review

Reply #49 –
Quote from: sandsmere – on
Only by the idiots.

7 or 8 will be fine. Specially if we recruit like we have in the last 2 years.

We are part way through.
a genuine rebuild.

2019 should see some real improvement I rekon.

It appears certain that we will buy one or two top line mids, add that to organic growth, the improvement cab be rapid and significant.

No reason why a top 8 berth is out of the question in 2018.

It's all about mids, mids and mids - and Ben Saunders!
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Carlton 2017 - Review

Reply #50 –
Quote from: sandsmere – on
Only by the idiots.

7 or 8 will be fine. Specially if we recruit like we have in the last 2 years.

We are part way through.
a genuine rebuild.

2019 should see some real improvement I rekon.

Pull your head in and stop stalking

I will ask why the slow progression with 20-21 year olds.
 

Re: Carlton 2017 - Review

Reply #51 –
Nice article by Daisy Pearce over at The Rage.

Nine Win Season for Carlton
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Carlton 2017 - Review

Reply #52 –
The "Jones one" is something I'm still struggling a bit with.

Yes we've found a gem...and kudos to those responsible.
But why did it take us so long to identify that this is a key defender not a forward?
He was nearly "out the door" before he was given his opportunity.

My hope is that this signifies a greater awareness and an improvement in our major deficient area "Development".
Whether we got lucky with one smart fellows observations, or it's a new era in player development is yet to be determined...and the proof of the pudding will be in performance not potential (I'm a bit over the Nostradamus.... "Don't worry, he'll be right" approach...because we don't know ::) )

We've identified some likely prospects but we need to see "Charlie Curnow" like progress, not second and third year blues.
Many of these blokes are high draft picks...not rookie picks, and the expectations should be high.

Re: Carlton 2017 - Review

Reply #53 –
Quote from: Lods – on
The "Jones one" is something I'm still struggling a bit with.

Yes we've found a gem...and kudos to those responsible.
But why did it take us so long to identify that this is a key defender not a forward?
He was nearly "out the door" before he was given his opportunity.

My hope is that this signifies a greater awareness and an improvement in our major deficient area "Development".
Whether we got lucky with one smart fellows observations, or it's a new era in player development is yet to be determined...and the proof of the pudding will be in performance not potential (I'm a bit over the Nostradamus.... "Don't worry, he'll be right" approach...because we don't know ::) )

We've identified some likely prospects but we need to see "Charlie Curnow" like progress, not second and third year blues.
Many of these blokes are high draft picks...not rookie picks, and the expectations should be high.

I have a theory.

In all walks of life, some people have aspirations to become something.

Jones aspired to be an AFL key position forward.

We all saw that he couldnt do it, but he was determined to try and make it.  So he battled away at the task for 12 months or so under Bolton and they were willing to see where it went.

Sure enough it wasnt proving fruitful. Yet, he continued plugging away at it, until someone may have pulled him aside and said to him, how would you feel about a change?

Change can be very turbulent, and accepting that what you want to do, and what you can do are two very different scenarios, it can be difficult to nudge people in the right direction.

The fact that Liam knows how to play as a forward (somewhat) is helping him as a defender, and at some point I have no doubt we will put him forward again and he will be better at it for the experience of playing down back.

This isnt a game, where you put some ticks regarding developement around a player and watch their stats increase, or write their name down on a different part of the paper and watch it yield rewards.

This is real life, where people are stubborn, have emotions and sometimes getting them to the point where they become open to change is necessary.  Dont look at the two years he spent with us playing forward as time wasted.  Its all part of the journey.

Mind you, that last part is what makes me believe that our club is in good stead moving forward.  We have embraced the journey aspect of decision making and how players developement wont be linear.  Some will grow year upon year, others will have set backs along the way, but the setbacks dont matter, its how you respond that counts.  Liam has absolutely been rewarded.  The same opportunity is there for everyone, but they have to be open to it.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Carlton 2017 - Review

Reply #54 –
If he was allowed to dictate where he played for a few seasons that's a bit of a concern.

Yep
This is real life
....and in real life you can't predict the future.
Which is why I have a bit of a problem with the "everything will be alright" approach.
It's much better to be on the edge.
Appreciate the things that are going well but keep a strong eye on where things aren't quite up to scratch and keep working on them.

Maybe that's exactly what is happening but it just strikes me that there are areas, such as player development, where we cant yet say for sure ..."This is an area where we've definitely improved."
We've identified some talent....it's what happens next that counts.

Re: Carlton 2017 - Review

Reply #55 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Yeah

No, we're tracking well for a final about 2022 ::)

Cmon Lods, you're normally the level headed one.

I was labelled as 'negative' for suggesting the season we've had was what i expected.
To go with that was my expectation that once the the table does turn, it will turn very quickly. My expectation was for it to start next season. Now, that is of course dependent on what happens in the trade/draft period. If we ignore our key forward area like we have in the past i reserve the right to adjust my predictions.

If nothing else, we have become MORE of a destination club than we have in the past. Bolton hasn't been around long enough to make any enemies, and not too many people have a bad thing to say about it. We have enough young blokes, who apply enough pressure, for people to realise we are building to something...and they will want to jump on board.

To quote Field of Dreams - "If you build it, they will come"
In this case, we are building a new culture.

Re: Carlton 2017 - Review

Reply #56 –
That comment of mine you quoted was actually in response to the suggestion that anything more than 7 or 8 wins would be above expectations for 2018.
It was a bit of sarcasm...
If 7 or 8 wins are all we're looking at in 2018 then at that rate finals are well off.

In reality like you I believe things can turn quickly.
Unlike you I thought it would be this year....but it became apparent once the season started that results we're secondary to experimentation and getting games into young kids.
Whether that will prove beneficial or detrimental to some will be determined down the track.

One area of concern for me is that, also like you, I started the year with concerns about our forward line.
That concern still exists but now it's exacerbated by what has proven to be some major problems in the midfield.

This next draft/trade period is vitally important.
Whether or not we really are a destination club will be interesting to see.



Re: Carlton 2017 - Review

Reply #57 –
I agree with Neil Craig in regard to this comment;

Quote from: Neil Craig
“So I understand a certain amount of criticism but that’s where, when you’ve been in the game for a long period of time, I understand it but I disagree with it. I’ve seen first-hand here the development and the direction and I see huge development.”

For me our Player Development looks 1000% better than it has been in the past which is why I changed my forum signature a while back.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Carlton 2017 - Review

Reply #58 –
Quote from: LP – on
Nice article by Daisy Pearce over at The Rage.

Nine Win Season for Carlton

Listened to the Andy Maher Carlton podcast (sometimes too positive even for a Carlton supporter) and he pointed out the difference between this article - a really balanced view that had some in depth research and no biases,  v John Ralph's piece that just sh@t on Carlton from above, and took the "fewer wins, can't kick a score, therefore a diaster" trek - that would have taken him about 5mins to write

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/carlton/denis-pagan-calls-for-carlton-to-attack-more-as-the-blues-face-fifth-spoon-in-16-years/news-story/f8fd5c65ff35e1647a51dc1e05c5c750

Guess which way most journos go, when they write/talk about Carlton!!

Re: Carlton 2017 - Review

Reply #59 –
Quote from: Milhanna13 – on
Listened to the Andy Maher Carlton podcast (sometimes too positive even for a Carlton supporter) and he pointed out the difference between this article - a really balanced view that had some in depth research and no biases,  v John Ralph's piece that just sh@t on Carlton from above, and took the "fewer wins, can't kick a score, therefore a diaster" trek - that would have taken him about 5mins to write

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/carlton/denis-pagan-calls-for-carlton-to-attack-more-as-the-blues-face-fifth-spoon-in-16-years/news-story/f8fd5c65ff35e1647a51dc1e05c5c750

Guess which way most journos go, when they write/talk about Carlton!!

If Pagan or some journalist had made this call six months ago it might have relevance in the current circumstance, but blind Freddy can see the direction our club is heading and making these sorts of statements now is like calling the race from a video replay!

Can we have a past coach or past player come out and tell Carlton problem is that it should win more games! That would cap things off nicely, especially when they claim it was all their idea after it happens! ;D
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"