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Topic: The Third Test in the Ashes Series - WACA (14 December) (Read 49175 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: The Third Test in the Ashes Series - WACA (14 December)

Reply #30 –
Quote from: maxm68 – on
I  wish Dean Jones + Brad Hodge ( And now Maxwell ) got the same chances back in the day.

There is a power of players who never got equivalent opportunities.

Clarke made an interesting comment, he described the Marsh's as ripper blokes, the sort you want to have around the team. Hardly a reason for test selection, maybe that can keep them around like Nugget!

I may have told this story before but nepotism in cricket is very real, and not always the way you think. A friends son was blatantly blackmailed three years ago, threatened by a state cricket official, told to leave home and play grade cricket in NSW or he'd never pull on the baggy green even though he had represented his State and Australia multiple times at junior level. He declined and the abuse and interference became so bad, abusive txts and phone calls, hassling his parents, hassling his club and coach, that in the end he gave the game away and chose football!

The NSW official turned out to be a relative of a high ranking Australian and NSW cricket official, it seems they were making the you'll play for us or nobody scenario very real! They were in effect standing over kids in other states to move to NSW grade clubs or else.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: The Third Test in the Ashes Series - WACA (14 December)

Reply #31 –
Quote from: crashlander – on
I would not have selected Mitch Marsh.
In his favour, he is a big, athletic lad who hit the cover off the ball and bowl about the pace of the present English bowlers. That is not a bad set of traits to have.
However, as a bowler he does not tend to move the ball in the air or off the pitch enough. Too many of his balls come through gun-barrel-straight! That is not good for an international bowler.
Secondly, as a batsman he does not deal well with a moving ball. This means he has periods of low scores against pace or spin.
These weaknesses are not the things to bring into test cricket, especially against the Poms.

It has been a LONG time since we had a true allrounder in the side. In the '70's, almost every player could and did bowl a bit. Keith Stackpole had a pretty good leg break in his arsenal. Ian Chappell bowled some leggies. Greg Chappell was a medium pacer who could move ht eball either way. Doug Walters was the official 'patnership breaker'.
After that we still had guys who were wickettakers as bowlers. Simon Katich bowled chinamen and bowled them well. Injury restricted his bowling, but he took 6 wickets in a innings. Bevan was an unreliable bowler, but his left arm wronguns simply couldn't be read. He got a lot of wickets, and had he better contro he would have made the team as a bowler.
Now we don't have that. Warner and Smith can bowl leggies, but they rarely do.

We need a batsman who can bowl properly. Not many of them around.

If Marsh is going to bat in the top 6 his strength needs to lean towards his batting. He's always going to be the 5th bowler, and a very handy one he is, always good for a wicket or two, but importantly we need him to make run. His bowling is going to be more relief.

Outside of a pure genuine all rounder probably the ideal type you were talking about was Andrew Symonds. A genuine batsman that averaged over 40, who was a more than proficient bowler that could provide relief.

Re: The Third Test in the Ashes Series - WACA (14 December)

Reply #32 –
Quote from: laj – on
If Marsh is going to bat in the top 6 his strength needs to lean towards his batting. He's always going to be the 5th bowler, and a very handy one he is, always good for a wicket or two, but importantly we need him to make run. His bowling is going to be more relief.

Outside of a pure genuine all rounder probably the ideal type you were talking about was Andrew Symonds. A genuine batsman that averaged over 40, who was a more than proficient bowler that could provide relief.

The problem is Marsh is nowhere near good enough to bat at 6 in a Sheffield Shield team.

Is Marsh a good enough bowler to be selected as a bowler in the Test team?  No, definitely not.

You don't even have to think about whether his batting is good enough.

An all rounder must be good enough to earn a place in the team as a batsman or as a bowler.  Marsh misses out on both counts and his inclusion in the Test squad is inexplicable.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: The Third Test in the Ashes Series - WACA (14 December)

Reply #33 –
It's amazing how the most emotive debates seem to form around players who are a compromise.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: The Third Test in the Ashes Series - WACA (14 December)

Reply #34 –
Quote from: DJC – on
The problem is Marsh is nowhere near good enough to bat at 6 in a Sheffield Shield team.

Is Marsh a good enough bowler to be selected as a bowler in the Test team?  No, definitely not.

You don't even have to think about whether his batting is good enough.

An all rounder must be good enough to earn a place in the team as a batsman or as a bowler.  Marsh misses out on both counts and his inclusion in the Test squad is inexplicable.

He's had a good FC season with the bat this year so hopefully that is going to carry over to the Test arena. His last 6 innings 95, 28, 141, 11, 43 and 38no. Let's hope it carries over as he has never filled me with confidence. Only bright side is that he couldn't bat worse than Handscomb right now plus he'll bowl.

Can only reward form but that being the case Maxwell must consider himself very unlucky.

Re: The Third Test in the Ashes Series - WACA (14 December)

Reply #35 –
Quote from: laj – on
He's had a good FC season with the bat this year so hopefully that is going to carry over to the Test arena. His last 6 innings 95, 28, 141, 11, 43 and 38no. Let's hope it carries over as he has never filled me with confidence. Only bright side is that he couldn't bat worse than Handscomb right now plus he'll bowl.

Can only reward form but that being the case Maxwell must consider himself very unlucky.

Averages around 21 with the bat at test cricket...he would probably bat at No 3 for England ;) but here in Aus you need to be at around 35-40 IMO  even batting at six to earn your money. Maybe they might bat Paine at six if Marsh plays....

Re: The Third Test in the Ashes Series - WACA (14 December)

Reply #36 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Averages around 21 with the bat at test cricket...he would probably bat at No 3 for England ;) but here in Aus you need to be at around 35-40 IMO  even batting at six to earn your money. Maybe they might bat Paine at six if Marsh plays....

Hopefully 2nd time round that will improve. Of that glorious Australian sides through the late 90's/2000s every batsman was dropped at some stage. They were much better then 2nd, even 3rd time around. Symonds was once considered a professional fieldsman at one stage then eventually went on to be pretty good.

M.Marsh's recent form has been good and this summer picking blokes in good FC form like Bancroft, S.Marsh and Paine has been a success so far.

I say that out of hope as having two Marsh's in the side scares me, although we certainly can't complain about Shaun's form.

Re: The Third Test in the Ashes Series - WACA (14 December)

Reply #37 –
Maxwell is in better form and scoring more runs than M Marsh

Re: The Third Test in the Ashes Series - WACA (14 December)

Reply #39 –
Quote from: Jack Burton – on
Maxwell is in better form and scoring more runs than M Marsh
Apparently that doesn't matter, coach has declared Mitch has earned his spot so that's that. Handscome will have to work hard to get back in this side but he's done for this series I reckon.
The Ox is slow but I'm running out of patience.

Re: The Third Test in the Ashes Series - WACA (14 December)

Reply #40 –
If Marsh has "earned his spot" .... I call bulldust.

Maxwell should be pretty aggrieved right now, maybe he should change his surname to Marsh and move to NSW to ensure selection.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: The Third Test in the Ashes Series - WACA (14 December)

Reply #41 –
Kevin Pietersen has got it right, England are a fecking embarrassment and after the latest incident where they were out on the piss fighting again its clear some of their blokes are just here for a holiday and couldnt be bothered trying, he named Cook as being finished and not trying anymore and I reckon he missed a few others in the same category. They sent Ali out as captain in the latest tour match and didnt even bother selecting anyone else from the test team and its not like their batsman dont need the practice..
Was going to go the Test in Melbourne but I couldnt be bothered spending my money on a game where only one team are trying...hopefully we smash them in Perth and they send some of these slack ar$e players home and get some new ones who can behave properly,make a contest and give the public their moneys worth...

Re: The Third Test in the Ashes Series - WACA (14 December)

Reply #42 –
Quote from: Professer E – on
If Marsh has "earned his spot" .... I call bulldust.

Maxwell should be pretty aggrieved right now, maybe he should change his surname to Marsh and move to NSW to ensure selection.
Just quoting the coach justifying his selection, Mitch will play no doubt about it.
The Ox is slow but I'm running out of patience.

Re: The Third Test in the Ashes Series - WACA (14 December)

Reply #43 –
Quote from: Professer E – on
If Marsh has "earned his spot" .... I call bulldust.

Maxwell should be pretty aggrieved right now, maybe he should change his surname to Marsh and move to NSW to ensure selection.

Maxwell needs dual citizenship like some of our politicians, he would get a game for NZ...
Plenty of cricket heavyweights dont like Maxwell and are critical of his selfish " its all about me" approach, Haddin(didnt want him in NSW and said so) Warne, Berry all slagged him off over the Wade debacle and Lehmann and Smith took to the public forum to criticise him which isnt the norm.
He isnt popular and thats the bottom line, he will need 200 every innings to force his way back...unlike the Marsh bros who are popular with their peers and as we have seen with Shaun get plenty of love from their team-mates especially when they do well...

Reminds me of Jamie Siddons ex Vic and SA state cricketer, should have played for Aus during the Waugh years but I heard didnt get on with Steve Waugh in particular and didnt get a look in at test level.

Re: The Third Test in the Ashes Series - WACA (14 December)

Reply #44 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Kevin Pietersen has got it right, England are a fecking embarrassment and after the latest incident where they were out on the piss fighting again its clear some of their blokes are just here for a holiday and couldnt be bothered trying, he named Cook as being finished and not trying anymore and I reckon he missed a few others in the same category. They sent Ali out as captain in the latest tour match and didnt even bother selecting anyone else from the test team and its not like their batsman dont need the practice..
Was going to go the Test in Melbourne but I couldnt be bothered spending my money on a game where only one team are trying...hopefully we smash them in Perth and they send some of these slack ar$e players home and get some new ones who can behave properly,make a contest and give the public their moneys worth...

Absolutely agree EB. I haven't seriously followed cricket for many years - I was right into it at the time when the WIs were riding high and I used to love it then. It's become a pale shadow these days and England are an absolute disgrace. They should be told to feck off home IMO since they are only here it seems to party and cause trouble and embarrassment. I could understand some celebration if they were actually winning but they are an embarrassment to the sport on field as well. I wouldn't shell out one cent to watch tbh, England are scornful of the paying public, and it will be interesting to see what happens in the Boxing Day test.  >:(
Reality always wins in the end.