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Author Topic: 5th Test vs England in Sydney  (Read 1202 times)

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Offline crashlander

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Re: 5th Test vs England in Sydney
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2018, 03:06:43 PM »
Steyn is not what he used to be. He remains a class act, but the speed he had when he was younger isn't there any more. He has had a few injuries lately (which makes him almost the same as ours, who are injury prone in the extreme). That doesn't mean he won't find another leg against us: he tried to lift for us. He also still moves the ball, and we don't play the moving ball well.
Rabada, on the other hand, has developed into a very good bowler and must be taken seriously.

Our batting: we have problems in the opening spot. Both Renshaw and Bancroft have shown more than a little, but neither is in form at the moment. Both of them could do with a great big dose of confidence and some serious technical work.
Darcy Short, anyone?

I wouldn't be saying our middle order problems are over. The Marx brothers, sorry, the Marsh brothers, have done their share, but ..... Mitch Marsh is a flat track bully: I don't like him against the moving ball at all.
And Paine has been OK, without being outstanding with either bat or keeping. Not quite a match for de Koch.

This doesn't spell disaster, but we would have to go into the series as considerable underdogs.
Live Long and Prosper!

Offline JonHenry

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Re: 5th Test vs England in Sydney
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2018, 06:04:12 PM »
Steyn is not what he used to be. He remains a class act, but the speed he had when he was younger isn't there any more. He has had a few injuries lately (which makes him almost the same as ours, who are injury prone in the extreme). That doesn't mean he won't find another leg against us: he tried to lift for us. He also still moves the ball, and we don't play the moving ball well.
Rabada, on the other hand, has developed into a very good bowler and must be taken seriously.

Our batting: we have problems in the opening spot. Both Renshaw and Bancroft have shown more than a little, but neither is in form at the moment. Both of them could do with a great big dose of confidence and some serious technical work.
Darcy Short, anyone?

I wouldn't be saying our middle order problems are over. The Marx brothers, sorry, the Marsh brothers, have done their share, but ..... Mitch Marsh is a flat track bully: I don't like him against the moving ball at all.
And Paine has been OK, without being outstanding with either bat or keeping. Not quite a match for de Koch.

This doesn't spell disaster, but we would have to go into the series as considerable underdogs.

Mitch Marsh's batting is completely different to what it was.
Much better balance between front and back foot play

Online ElwoodBlues1

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Re: 5th Test vs England in Sydney
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2018, 06:09:40 PM »
Actually, outside a few batsmen their batting isn't that strong. I reckon ours overall is better. They had no idea against the moving ball last night and that was against India's pacemen. Admittedly the pitch was juiced up just for India but their batting put themselves in a position where they could lose the Test Match. Our very aggressive bowling would kill their batting line up on those pitches as well if they juiced it up like they did for this Test again India. We always go well in SA, no reason it won't happen again. SA's not that good. They lost in England 2-1.

Yes, our catching during the series wasn't good. Dropped some shockers. You could make an argument that Smith's dropped catches in Melbourne, when Cook was just 66, cost us a 5-0 result.

SA quicks led by Vernon Philander knocked over India to win that test, hopefully the pitches are better than that one...

Online ElwoodBlues1

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Re: 5th Test vs England in Sydney
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2018, 06:21:05 PM »
Mitch Marsh's batting is completely different to what it was.
Much better balance between front and back foot play

Easy to be balanced when its only 130k coming at you dead straight.......think SA will test his new found technique. I thought he got a bit square on in
a over exaggerated way but the Poms lack of pace and movement didnt show him up.
Philander and Rabada just knocked over India for not much with good outswing bowling, be a real test for not only M Marsh but the others if thats the conditions/movement the Saffies dish up....

Offline laj

  • Assistant Coach
Re: 5th Test vs England in Sydney
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2018, 06:33:11 PM »
Steyn is not what he used to be. He remains a class act, but the speed he had when he was younger isn't there any more. He has had a few injuries lately (which makes him almost the same as ours, who are injury prone in the extreme). That doesn't mean he won't find another leg against us: he tried to lift for us. He also still moves the ball, and we don't play the moving ball well.
Rabada, on the other hand, has developed into a very good bowler and must be taken seriously.

Our batting: we have problems in the opening spot. Both Renshaw and Bancroft have shown more than a little, but neither is in form at the moment. Both of them could do with a great big dose of confidence and some serious technical work.
Darcy Short, anyone?

I wouldn't be saying our middle order problems are over. The Marx brothers, sorry, the Marsh brothers, have done their share, but ..... Mitch Marsh is a flat track bully: I don't like him against the moving ball at all.
And Paine has been OK, without being outstanding with either bat or keeping. Not quite a match for de Koch.

This doesn't spell disaster, but we would have to go into the series as considerable underdogs.

South African batting isn't that strong. They had enough trouble with the Indian pacemen so they'll have alot of problems with our attack, although it was a pretty juiced track that become juicier after it sweated under the covers on the rained day. Australia invariably play well in SA.

Thought Paine did a really good job with the gloves. Actually never realised he has an average of 40 with the bat until I just looked it up, albeit from 9 Tests stretched apart..

Offline laj

  • Assistant Coach
Re: 5th Test vs England in Sydney
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2018, 06:39:05 PM »
Easy to be balanced when its only 130k coming at you dead straight.......think SA will test his new found technique. I thought he got a bit square on in
a over exaggerated way but the Poms lack of pace and movement didnt show him up.
Philander and Rabada just knocked over India for not much with good outswing bowling, be a real test for not only M Marsh but the others if thats the conditions/movement the Saffies dish up....

Indian pacemen knocked SA over for bugger all too. If they use tracks like that no side will make over 200 for the whole series. Our aggressive bowlers could kill someone on those tracks. Tracks will be nothing like that when we come over. SA aren't stupid. Be just like the regular ones we have batted and bowled well on in the past. Be nothing like the movement seen in this Test. I think both our batting and bowling are better and we handle genuine fast bowling well. Philander tends to falls away mentally if there's not so much in the track. A few opposition batsmen have actually pointed that out.

Online ElwoodBlues1

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Re: 5th Test vs England in Sydney
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2018, 06:49:11 PM »
Indian pacemen knocked SA over for bugger all too. If they use tracks like that no side will make over 200 for the whole series. Our aggressive bowlers could kill someone on those tracks. Tracks will be nothing like that when we come over. SA aren't stupid. Be just like the regular ones we have batted and bowled well on in the past. Be nothing like the movement seen in this Test. I think both our batting and bowling are better and we handle genuine fast bowling well. Philander tends to falls away mentally if there's not so much in the track. A few opposition batsmen have actually pointed that out.

Their bowlers swing and seam the ball more IMO...ours tend to get more bounce and life out of flat wickets but apart from Starc dont really bowl the big boomerang swingers.
I reckon they would rather low scores on dodgy wickets and take their chances rather than giving us more roads that only our blokes can get any life out off.....
They will have watched the series out here and seen how hard players like Smith are to remove on flat true wickets and I cant believe they would be silly enough not to add some extra spinach to their pitches...
Still think we will win but I'd expect SA to be far more competitive than the English who were more like a National Lampoons holiday team.....

Offline laj

  • Assistant Coach
Re: 5th Test vs England in Sydney
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2018, 07:34:05 PM »
Their bowlers swing and seam the ball more IMO...ours tend to get more bounce and life out of flat wickets but apart from Starc dont really bowl the big boomerang swingers.
I reckon they would rather low scores on dodgy wickets and take their chances rather than giving us more roads that only our blokes can get any life out off.....
They will have watched the series out here and seen how hard players like Smith are to remove on flat true wickets and I cant believe they would be silly enough not to add some extra spinach to their pitches...
Still think we will win but I'd expect SA to be far more competitive than the English who were more like a National Lampoons holiday team.....

South African pitches usually gives the batsmen and bowlers an even chance. Not alot of roads there. Best pitches around in my opinion. We bat well on it as the ball on to the bat nicely and doesn't swing and seam like in England but will do something, and bowl well on it because they are quick, hence means our bowlers are suited. Means simply if you play good cricket you do well.

Not sure they'll risk juiced up green top which bounce and seam alot. Cummins and Hazelwood can nip it off the seam quite a bit, which will be very handy there. Hazelwood will love it there and we've seen Cummins there before as an 18yo dominate. Our bowlers always bowl well in South Africa. Even going back quite a few years, Johnson, Siddle and Hilfenhaus used to love their pitches and bowled us to victory only to struggle in England a few months later. McGrath and Stuart Clark loved it there too. Neither barely swung a ball in their lives but could seam it and make it bounce.

Online Professer E

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Re: 5th Test vs England in Sydney
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2018, 09:56:20 PM »
Cummins was bowling outswing when he took six for in Sth Africa.  He doesn't move the ball out with his revamped, more square on action.  Starc was very disappointing as the series continued, has fear factor and bowls the odd jaffa but a lot of trash as well.

Our second opener is a real weakness ATM.  Elgar and his mate clearly outrank us there.  They also bat to number 10, we don't.

Early on day four Anderson was moving the ball around and neither Marsh played it well.  Crane also made Mitch look very leaden footed and he was guessing, not batting, more than once.  I can't recall what Marahraj bowls but Mitch and Usman need to study the footage.

DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Offline flyboy77

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Re: 5th Test vs England in Sydney
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2018, 10:29:41 PM »
Rubbish.

Cummins is getting better and better, Starc should not have played the final test, clearly hampered.

Sure, Bancroft had a lean trot but he stuck around a time..... he grew up on the WACA, plays better against real pace.....whether he retains his spot is the question....

For al the hype on Rabada, he's only taken 110 wickets from 24 tests.

Cummins. for example, 44 wickets from 10 matches!

to say SA bat to 10 is to say we bat to 10. Cummins at 8 averages more than Philander.

As others have said, the pitches the Saffers prepare for us will be miles different than what the Indians have faced....

Otherwise, we'll murder them.

GF in 2019, then 3 flags back to back!

Online Professer E

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Re: 5th Test vs England in Sydney
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2018, 06:08:19 AM »
I didn't say anything about Cummins not being any good, I just commented on his more chest on action which means he bowls a lot of off cutters instead of outswing (which has a different wrist position and needs a side on action).   His back went because of the classic action, as has Pattinson's.

You're entitled to an opinion but in this case, your comment is ill considered.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Offline laj

  • Assistant Coach
Re: 5th Test vs England in Sydney
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2018, 05:25:40 PM »
Cummins was bowling outswing when he took six for in Sth Africa.  He doesn't move the ball out with his revamped, more square on action.  Starc was very disappointing as the series continued, has fear factor and bowls the odd jaffa but a lot of trash as well.

Our second opener is a real weakness ATM.  Elgar and his mate clearly outrank us there.  They also bat to number 10, we don't.

Early on day four Anderson was moving the ball around and neither Marsh played it well.  Crane also made Mitch look very leaden footed and he was guessing, not batting, more than once.  I can't recall what Marahraj bowls but Mitch and Usman need to study the footage.

Cummins seamed it this series. Traditionally Australian bowlers are inclined to seam more than swing the ball given the conditions here, until the ball is reversing. As Healy used to say, McGrath never swung a ball after the 3rd ball of the innings, he used to seam it. We get too preoccupied recently with trying to swing it, which will never be a strength in Australian conditions. It never use to help Johnson for years and certainly didn't help Hazelwood in England last time. Once the likes of Johnson bowled to his strengths he was a nightmare.

As for Starc, at the end of the series he didn't play in the 4th Test and certainly wasn't fit in the 5th Test, as we saw by his bowling speeds in the first innings.

As for their openers outranking us i'm not so sure. Elgar's not that good, and his partner is a newbie with 4 Tests. Their batting isn't that strong. Reckon ours is better. Our batting has been alot stronger since the disaster in Hobart. Way more value on their wickets. They have a couple of very good ones but that's it. With the Marsh's the thing is they survived. If you survive Anderson moving the ball about then that can only be a good thing as there is no better exponent of swing. Their spinner is left arm orthodox so don't have to worry about a leg spinner.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 05:27:47 PM by laj »

Online ElwoodBlues1

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Re: 5th Test vs England in Sydney
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2018, 05:39:05 PM »
Cummins seamed it this series. Traditionally Australian bowlers are inclined to seam more than swing the ball given the conditions here, until the ball is reversing. As Healy used to say, McGrath never swung a ball after the 3rd ball of the innings, he used to seam it. We get too preoccupied recently with trying to swing it, which will never be a strength in Australian conditions. It never use to help Johnson for years and certainly didn't help Hazelwood in England last time. Once the likes of Johnson bowled to his strengths he was a nightmare.

As for Starc, at the end of the series he didn't play in the 4th Test and certainly wasn't fit in the 5th Test, as we saw by his bowling speeds in the first innings.

As for their openers outranking us i'm not so sure. Elgar's not that good, and his partner is a newbie with 4 Tests. Their batting isn't that strong. Reckon ours is better. Our batting has been alot stronger since the disaster in Hobart. Way more value on their wickets. They have a couple of very good ones but that's it. With the Marsh's the thing is they survived. If you survive Anderson moving the ball about then that can only be a good thing as there is no better exponent of swing. Their spinner is left arm orthodox so don't have to worry about a leg spinner.

Tend to agree on Elgar , averages 41 which is ok but Warner is a more destructive match winning player...Elgar is more orthodox and from memory did a Kade Simpson and had three ducks in his first three test innings...
Love to take Darcy Short  to SA just for the experiment, reminds me of Warner but I think has a better technique than the early Warner.....dont see Bancroft working out, if you cant make runs on our roads vs a pitiful attack I dont see much future vs SA...think he toured there with Aus A but dont know how he went...



Offline laj

  • Assistant Coach
Re: 5th Test vs England in Sydney
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2018, 05:57:12 PM »
Tend to agree on Elgar , averages 41 which is ok but Warner is a more destructive match winning player...Elgar is more orthodox and from memory did a Kade Simpson and had three ducks in his first three test innings...
Love to take Darcy Short  to SA just for the experiment, reminds me of Warner but I think has a better technique than the early Warner.....dont see Bancroft working out, if you cant make runs on our roads vs a pitiful attack I dont see much future vs SA...think he toured there with Aus A but dont know how he went...

Bancroft looked ok at times but that flaw in his technique was horribly exposed. He had periods he batted for a long time got to 25 then that flaw got him out. He'd need to correct that and until then he won't survive in SA. Sort that out and he'll go ok but he'll need to go back to first class cricket. Won't be the first batsman to be dropped, come back and become a star but he has work to do first. We'll probably have to go with Renshaw. He looks to have a good technique and values his wicket. We'd just have to gamble his form slump was just a good old fashioned run of outs and he comes good. Even if he makes 20 he'll take 70 balls and take the shine off the ball.

 

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