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Topic: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday (Read 131631 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #390 –
We played the conditions better than the saints.

We did have home ground advantage to assist in this though.

...and its JLT.

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #391 –
St Kilda kicked appallingly, straighten that up and I think they would’ve won.
I liked our endeavor and increased tempo, bring on the real stuff !
Let’s go BIG !

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #392 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
When i say that i'm not talking simple about height and weight.

I've got no doubt that taking Weitering was the right thing to do.
But as an example in regards to the difference between U18s and AFL.
First game i saw of Bryce Gibbs was when he playing for SA. 3/4 time the commentators were pumping him up. Bryce has had 30 possessions, kicked 3(?) goals and is now going to have a rest at CHB.
Bryce Gibbs is a gun player, best we could've taken at that pick and despite being one of the youngest drafted, was still beating up on kids. An AFL CHB option he clearly is not.
Paul Bower was AA CHB in U18's.

Whatever they were before is irrelevent. How they perform at AFL level is what matters now.

Jones, Marchbank and Plowman are simply performing better than Weitering has been in defence.

Why are people trying to paint this as something other than that.

You know what, Lockett, Ablett and Dunstall didn't make the AA teams every year because you can't fit them all in the side at once. That doesn't diminish their talent!

Errrr.... weitering hasn't played a game yet.

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #394 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Peter Ryan has an article in today’s Age in which he analyses St Kilda’s options for “taking the next step”.  He effectively dismisses their loss to us with the statement:

Yes, we did adapt quickly and our defenders playing several metres in front of their opponents in the first quarter led to many intercept possessions and forward thrusts.

It is true that the Saints outscored us - by five points - but that has little meaning when you are trying to make up a 27 point deficit.  The fact that we outscored them in the last quarter - against the wind - is pertinent.

I’m not really sure that they “controlled plenty of play” either.  They certainly strung together some good passages of play, and we did get a couple of goals against the flow, but I reckon we were more in control.

I guess it’s a reasonable article but why dismiss what was well planned and well executed victory?

"Forget the result" says Peter Ryan - I'd accept that if they'd played their kids or threw them around positionally. But they didn't - and they really wanted to win. They seemed to throw everything at that game and had their first choice midfield in the middle for the bulk of the game. We seemed to be putting time into some experimental centre square setups with Cripps often absent - and we had 2 fewer players!

"Forget the result"... I'm sure Richardson won't be.

They got beaten by a team that was pulling away (against the wind).

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #397 –
Quote from: jeza – on
"Forget the result" says Peter Ryan - I'd accept that if they'd played their kids or threw them around positionally. But they didn't - and they really wanted to win. They seemed to throw everything at that game and had their first choice midfield in the middle for the bulk of the game. We seemed to be putting time into some experimental centre square setups with Cripps often absent - and we had 2 fewer players!

"Forget the result"... I'm sure Richardson won't be.

They got beaten by a team that was pulling away (against the wind).

Not quite.

I noticed jack Steven spent most of the first half as a forward.   He went into the guts after half time and had a big impact which coincided with our fade out.

It's jlt.   We are a young side probably in going as well as it will go for most of the year and our kids are still getting the hang of it.  I estimate we'd be at our "best" for 2018 now, whilst the more mature sides might be training harder now, and might also be going through the motions a little on game day until "the real stuff" starts.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #398 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Big kid, picking on smaller kids. AFL level is a different kettle of fish.
Quote from: kruddler – on
When i say that i'm not talking simple about height and weight.

I don't think I need to debate that one, you've put it quite succinctly! ;D

Quote from: kruddler – on
He's played forward and done ok a couple times....and gone completely missing other times.

He may well turn out to be better than Harry up forward, but he is not great on the lead, isn't as good of a contested mark and doesn't have the same kinda aggression as Harry does.

Firstly, that'll be a couple of more times than Harry so far, but I'm not going to get drawn into a debate about who is the best forward because that is just you trying to justify your comments that there is no spot for Weitering, which is just a completely ludicrous statement!

Claiming Weitering is not as good of a contested mark, that's just a sign of desperation or deflection!

Quote from: kruddler – on
I've got more question marks over Harry than i do over Weiters, but if both lived up to their potential as a forward, i can't see Weiters being better than Harry. Of course, living up to the potential is the key. Plenty don't.

We had first pick in the 2015 national draft, don't take offence Kruddler but I think I'll trust SOS and Bolts on this one they have a pretty reasonable track record going on as far as recruitment is concerned, and they took Weitering ahead of both Harry and Charlie. That's a hell of a tell!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #399 –
Quote from: jeza – on
"Forget the result" says Peter Ryan - I'd accept that if they'd played their kids or threw them around positionally. But they didn't - and they really wanted to win. They seemed to throw everything at that game and had their first choice midfield in the middle for the bulk of the game. We seemed to be putting time into some experimental centre square setups with Cripps often absent - and we had 2 fewer players!

"Forget the result"... I'm sure Richardson won't be.

They got beaten by a team that was pulling away (against the wind).

Well said.

I don't buy the 'it's only JLT' stuff. Yes, sides might experiment a little here and there but they all want to win. Plus there's only 2 matches this year so sides really want to hit the ground running for the season proper.

In the same game last year the Aints beat us by almost 100 pts, that's after the D's also gave us an almighty thrashing at Casey Fields.

The win had genuine merit. The Aints threw everything at us after half-time and I suspect they fully expected win/over run us. But we held our nerve, absorbed their surge and went on to win. Yes, we jumped them but we protected that 3-4 goal jump for the game.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #400 –
Quote
The win had genuine merit. The Aints threw everything at us after half-time and I suspect they fully expected win/over run us. But we held our nerve, absorbed their surge and went on to win. Yes, we jumped them but we protected that 3-4 goal jump for the game.

Absa bloody lutely.

Sure we jumper them, but that was because we startred with a patch of darn good footy and they simply weren't good enough to stem the flow.

Heck, if Murphy had slotted that easy goal (one which he'd normally nail 9.9 out of 10) the lead could hve been even more substantial at quarter time (and someone elsed missed a gimme too).

THe win would have given the lads immense self belief (especially given the manner of the Saints smashing us in recent years).

Think we'll take care of the Dawks very comfortably.
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #401 –
The idiots can talk us down as much as they like. If some other clubs believe the 'scribes', then we have a chance to rub their noses in it. After all, wins talk much better than honourable losses.
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #402 –
Quote from: crashlander – on
The idiots can talk us down as much as they like. If some other clubs believe the 'scribes', then we have a chance to rub their noses in it. After all, wins talk much better than honourable losses.

Agreed - since when does anyone listen to the press?  They are only good at stating the bleeding obvious after everyone else has already noticed, and as for predictions, they will spend most of the year giving excuses as to why their prognostications were miles off the mark.

TBH, a season with limited expectations and the chance to try some more free-wheeling football may be just what this group needs at the moment.  And we have already seen in the last couple of seasons that if a bunch of young guys get on a roll, anything can happen.
This is now the longest premiership drought in the history of the Carlton Football Club - more evidence of climate change?
 

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #403 –
Quote from: LP – on
I don't think I need to debate that one, you've put it quite succinctly! ;D

I'm talking mentally as well. Which i thought was clear from the Gibbs comparison. Both are smarter than the blokes they played against underage. More disciplined. More level headed. More focussed.

Quote from: LP – on
Firstly, that'll be a couple of more times than Harry so far, but I'm not going to get drawn into a debate about who is the best forward because that is just you trying to justify your comments that there is no spot for Weitering, which is just a completely ludicrous statement!

Claiming Weitering is not as good of a contested mark, that's just a sign of desperation or deflection!

McKay outmarked Casboult a couple of times against the saints. He is very physical in the air. Is taller and more physical in contests. Weitering is a better reader of the ball. Both are good, but McKay is a better pack mark. Weitering might be a better 1 on 1, might.

Quote from: LP – on
We had first pick in the 2015 national draft, don't take offence Kruddler but I think I'll trust SOS and Bolts on this one they have a pretty reasonable track record going on as far as recruitment is concerned, and they took Weitering ahead of both Harry and Charlie. That's a hell of a tell!

...and i've already said i would've done the same. At the time we didn't have Jones, Marchbank or Plowman dominating.

Its a bit like when we took Kreuzer with #1 pick. At the time, we lacked a #1 ruckman. However, Sauce Jacobs, Hampson and even Warnock all came on to some extent which meant we had an embarrassment of riches in that area at the time. Obviously they all couldn't play. Obviously, we ended up letting Jacobs go because he wasn't getting a game.

As with Weitering, Jacobs leaving had nothing to do with talent. It had to do with where he was in the pecking order.
I have absolutely nothing against Weitering. I love him as much as the next bloke. I just feel that him playing, in certain situations, may work into the oppositions hands if there is no matchup for him.

Answer me this.
Who does he play on against Richmond?

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #404 –
I can see the point kruddler is making. Apple Computer developed Mac OS X to the point where it could run on both PowerPC and Intel processors - Steve Jobs said (something like) "we now have options, and as anyone will tell you, it's good to have options."

Our back 6, or back 15 or whatever the number is, has enough personnel to give us some good flexibility, and good options, which on paper and in theory, may mean that at certain times, Weets won't be one of those defenders. But in reality, I think the club will play him, no matter what.