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Re: Team selection disection

Reply #60 –
Maybe I should have said that in my opinion a player can't be classed as elite without superior foot skills, which definitely applies to Martin, Dangerfield, Selwood and Franklin.
Greg Williams was slow but also an elite player, due in no small part to his skill by hand and foot, Sam Mitchell likewise.
Cripps is a very good and very valuable player, but not in the top bracket.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: Team selection disection

Reply #61 –
Quote from: blue4life – on
Cripps is a very good and very valuable player, but not in the top bracket.

Give him time B4L.

Even though Diesel was a prolific ball winner, and had extraordinary handball skills, it was probably 4 or 5 years into his career before Diesel became know for that elite kicking either side of his body.

Sam Mitchell was similar, a prolific ball winner, great with handball, not much good at kicking (probably below average) until perhaps even 5 or 6 years into his career! I know Dawks fans that had labeled him a turnover merchant and did not want him as captain when he was first named!

Cripps shows all the signs of being on the right trajectory.

AFL Coaches have a funny way of looking at this, they all share a universal outlook which you can basically summarise as follows;

"I can teach a Super Athlete to be a AFL Footballer, but I cannot teach a natural Footballer to be a Super Athlete!"

I call it the AFL coaches megalomania, it's like a disease, and they truly believe it.

I supposed that they have to believe it or they wouldn't be in the job! That perspective also explains much of the drafting and trade recruitment that occurs, they all think they can fix some players broken skills, but they cannot fix someone who doesn't have the natural physical attributes. It is a sort of common coaching arrogance they all share!

Cripps will get better, then the shortcomings will start to evaporate, the things that he lacks are all coach-able except for speed! But we know from Williams and Mitchell that speed is not a requirement. When his kicking improves they won't be able to leave him alone, they won't be able to run off him!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Team selection disection

Reply #62 –
Quote from: blue4life – on
Maybe I should have said that in my opinion a player can't be classed as elite without superior foot skills, which definitely applies to Martin, Dangerfield, Selwood and Franklin.
Greg Williams was slow but also an elite player, due in no small part to his skill by hand and foot, Sam Mitchell likewise.
Cripps is a very good and very valuable player, but not in the top bracket.

gee, he's only 22, playing in a very soft midfield!
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Team selection disection

Reply #63 –
Quote from: LP – on

AFL Coaches have a funny way of looking at this, they all share a universal outlook which you can basically summarise it as follows;

"I can teach a Super Athlete to be a AFL Footballer, but I cannot teach a natural Footballer to be a Super Athlete!"


In the case of Shaun Hampson, absolute bunkum.
Don't get me wrong here, I'm a big fan of Patrick Cripps.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: Team selection disection

Reply #64 –
Cripps is ahead of schedule with or without his limitations.  Hes a 60 game player in his 5th season of AFL (the first of which was a VFL gap year) most of it played at a good or better level.

Given that information, we are a few years off being truly competitive, because the rest of the crop that we have drafted (Charlie Curnow, and Zac Fisher aside) are still finding their feet at this level.

Yes we have gotten a leg up with some more advanced trades in (Pickett, Kennedy, Marchbank, Plowman), but these guys are going to hold us in good stead, whilst we are still searching for some additional talent at the end of this season and next season.




"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson
 

Re: Team selection disection

Reply #65 –
Quote from: LP – on
AFL Coaches have a funny way of looking at this, they all share a universal outlook which you can basically summarise as follows;

"I can teach a Super Athlete to be a AFL Footballer, but I cannot teach a natural Footballer to be a Super Athlete!"

The truth is "There are some things you cant teach"...and I don't think you can teach either of those.

Once in a lifetime a super athlete who is also a good footballer, with all the skills comes along...Then he buggers up his bloody knee! :(

Re: Team selection disection

Reply #66 –
Quote from: blue4life – on
In the case of Shaun Hampson, absolute bunkum.

That's a good example, as is Casboult, Watson and Deluca.

But I have to query this, why is Blicavs a success at the Handbaggers, but those above dismal failures at Carlton?

Blicavs had barely played a game of football before being drafted, he was guy who played a little basketball and mostly competed at distance running! I understand he had one season at Taylor's Lakes before being rookied!

Quote
Blicavs' parents were both born overseas – his father was born in New Zealand to Latvian parents, and his mother was born on the isle of Jersey[1] Both of his parents represented Australia at basketball. His father Andris Blicavs played at the 1976 Montreal Olympics and his mother Karen Ogden was a member of the team that competed at the 1983 World Championships. His brother Kris has played basketball in the South East Australian Basketball League (SEABL) and his sister Sara Blicavs played in the Women's National Basketball League (WNBL).[2]

Prior to being recruited by Geelong, Blicavs was a middle-distance runner and steeplechaser, who attempted to qualify for the 2012 Summer Olympics.

He trained as an Olympian until he missed the cut!

Blicavs is the modern archetype of the coaches megalomania, probably in the fashion of his predecessor Kouta! People forget Kouta's chosen sport was athletics until 16 or 17, high jump, hurdles and discus!

The whole situation gets even murkier for Carlton, when you consider Hampson left for Nthmond and ended up ranked top 5 for ruck in his only injury free season there. That same year our best ruck was clearly Kreuzer in 12th. That re-opens the players who leave and improve debate.

Can you see where coaches get this megalomaniac belief from?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Team selection disection

Reply #67 –
Quote from: LP – on

Blicavs is the modern archetype of the coaches megalomania, probably in the fashion of his predecessor Kouta! People forget Kouta's chosen sport was athletics until 16 or 17, high jump, hurdles and discus!

Can you see where coaches get this belief from?

Kouta was Victorian junior hurdles champion from memory but he also played all of his junior football, he wasn't an athlete turned footballer as some people claim.
Goldstein was on an AIS basketball scholarship at 17 unless I'm mistaken, and Jezza didn't play Aussie rules until he was 14, some people are just naturally good at sport and can turn their hands to more than one discipline.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: Team selection disection

Reply #68 –
That's the definition of a "natural footballer" isn't it.
They just have the natural instincts and ability for the game.
The fact they may not have played a lot doesn't matter.
They've either got it or they haven't.

Re: Team selection disection

Reply #69 –
Quote from: LP – on
That's a good example, as is Casboult, Watson and Deluca.

But I have to query this, why is Blicavs a success at the Handbaggers, but those above dismal failures at Carlton?

Blicavs had barely played a game of football before being drafted, he was guy who played a little basketball and mostly competed at distance running! I understand he had one season at Taylor's Lakes before being rookied!

He trained as an Olympian until he missed the cut!

Blicavs is the modern archetype of the coaches megalomania, probably in the fashion of his predecessor Kouta! People forget Kouta's chosen sport was athletics until 16 or 17, high jump, hurdles and discus!

The whole situation gets even murkier for Carlton, when you consider Hampson left for Nthmond and ended up ranked top 5 for ruck in his only injury free season there. That same year our best ruck was clearly Kreuzer in 12th. That re-opens the players who leave and improve debate.

Can you see where coaches get this megalomaniac belief from?

Hampson was ok at best at Carlton but very ordinary at Richmond, let's not use spin to change history. He didn't improve at Richmond. He was better at Carlton.

Casboult certainly hasn't been a dismal failure. Not a rip-roaring success, he was a pick 44 from the Rookie Draft, but far from a dismal failure. Certainly a far bit better than Hampson, which we know hurts.

Re: Team selection disection

Reply #70 –
Cripps has to show he can handle a tag to be seen as top shelf....Sam Mitchell and Greg Williams would get 30 plus possies with taggers all over them but Cripps needs to show he can shake the tags and be effective.

You look at the two players Ed Curnow played on in the last two weeks, now Ed gives a heavy tag but Sidebottom and Higgins cleaned him up and were both BOG in previous weeks...Cripps was kept to 19 by a banana in Ben Jacobs, an elite player would have had 30 plus on Jacobs and had him benched.
Granted Cripps is still a kid and he has zero support so we need to be patient but talk of Cripps being elite need to be tempered until we have a better team and he can be judged.

Charlie Curnow is a better more complete player at the minute  and has performed well regardless of the support given to him and regardless of who he is playing on...

Re: Team selection disection

Reply #71 –
Quote from: blue4life – on
Maybe I should have said that in my opinion a player can't be classed as elite without superior foot skills, which definitely applies to Martin, Dangerfield, Selwood and Franklin.
Greg Williams was slow but also an elite player, due in no small part to his skill by hand and foot, Sam Mitchell likewise.
Cripps is a very good and very valuable player, but not in the top bracket.

So I guess Judd was definitely not elite?

Re: Team selection disection

Reply #72 –
Quote from: deags – on
So I guess Judd was definitely not elite?

That's a tough one.
His foot skills were very good early in his career but dropped off when he had hip issues later on.
At his peak he was elite, later on he was passed by players like Ablett and Dangerfield.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: Team selection disection

Reply #73 –
Quote from: blue4life – on
At his peak he was elite, later on he was passed by players like Ablett and Dangerfield.

Sorry, you do not lose elite, it's something you've earned for life!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Team selection disection

Reply #74 –
Quote from: LP – on
Sorry, you do not lose elite, it's something you've earned for life!

Time catches up with everyone sooner or later.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.