AFLW - General discussion thread

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Re: AFLW - General discussion thread

Reply #15 – February 11, 2019, 03:11:44 pm

It’s early days but it seems that Conference A is a lot stronger than Conference B. That could lead to a lopsided GF and one of the best teams missing out.

While the AFL can’t be expected to predict team performances, the results so far show a major flaw with the conference system. If the AFLW is to grow, the competition should have each team playing all of the other teams.

Re: AFLW - General discussion thread

Reply #16 – February 11, 2019, 07:46:47 pm

I believe there is one fundamental fault with AFLW..... it was never allowed to grow organically. Women’s basketball, cricket, soccer all developed, grew and consolidated out of the limelight and only came to the forefront when it was earnt. After that we gradually took notice and genuine stars of the competition received the correct accolades. The Lauren Jackson’s, Meg Lannings and Sam Kerr’s are the real deal. AFLW was thrown into prime time and all over the front pages from Day 1 and we were sold the talents of Mo Hope, Sarah Perkins, even our own Darcy Vescio way before it was justified. In terms of Hope and Perkins, they are 1000000 miles away!! Year 3 and the standard is way better and the skills are continually improving.... but it’s still got a long long way to go. Compared to other women’s sports, it’s a recreation sport. Like our men, the women can’t represent Australia in the sport, it’s a very short season and the pay is proportional to both length of season and revenue earned.

Let’s be careful who we crown as superstars and hold off any firm
opinions for 5 or 6 years. (around about the time the boys have no 18 in the trophy cabinet!!)

Re: AFLW - General discussion thread

Reply #17 – February 11, 2019, 08:23:14 pm

I am not a supporter of the AFLW... Not because of the standard etc, but simply because I am committed elsewhere. I find that I have total commitment to the Carlton Men's AFL, my old metro club, the Oz cricket team and my kids cricket teams.... I don't have the emotional energy, time or finances to take on another sport. It's a crowded sporting landscape, good luck to the sport but I reckon for every new devotee they are probably stealing a followerer from another sport.

Re: AFLW - General discussion thread

Reply #18 – February 11, 2019, 10:43:13 pm

Quote from: Professer E – on February 11, 2019, 08:23:14 pm

I am not a supporter of the AFLW... Not because of the standard etc, but simply because I am committed elsewhere. I find that I have total commitment to the Carlton Men's AFL, my old metro club, the Oz cricket team and my kids cricket teams.... I don't have the emotional energy, time or finances to take on another sport. It's a crowded sporting landscape, good luck to the sport but I reckon for every new devotee they are probably stealing a followerer from another sport.

I reckon they are attracting lots of women/girls who weren't following any sport.

And you do have your hands full

Re: AFLW - General discussion thread

Reply #19 – February 17, 2019, 10:13:43 am

Felling sorry for Chiocci, the Collingwood girls are fair dinkum, but their club has only recently started to take them seriously for the first few years the AFLW and netball was only a marketing gig at Collingwood.

I'm very cynical about appointments like Graeme Allen, which was really just using the AFLW as a back door into Allen acting as a recruiter. Now the filthy Norps have him there on the low down, for a club that was dead-set broke where is Norp's money coming from and how are they attracting the top dollar recruits?

It'll be interesting to see how the AFLW deal with Harris' bump compared to the Emma Kearney sledging and vilifying players in a very unsavoury manner. If an AFL player let rip with sledges like that they'd be in hot water to say the least!

Re: 2019 AFLW Votes - Round 5 vs Pies

Reply #20 – March 05, 2019, 11:11:10 pm

As I see it, as someone who (presently) can't stomach watching the AFLW, scoring is the/a major issue.

2 goals in a match and you win?

Joke. imho. Embarrassing to all and sundry quite frankly.

How to fix that problem - and make it more watchable to Jill & Joe Smith and their kids?

Less players for starters. Helps the congestion.

Umpires enforcing the f'n rules - reward the great tackle, pay the high tackle free quickly - and be consistent.

Maybe have a (say) 40m line from goal rather than 50m - and a goal from outside 40 gets 9 points or whatever.

Zones too, clearly.....

It will die without a lot of change.

Re: Re: 2019 AFLW Votes - Round 5 vs Pies

Reply #21 – March 06, 2019, 07:16:37 am

Quote from: flyboy77 – on March 05, 2019, 11:11:10 pm

As I see it, as someone who (presently) can't stomach watching the AFLW, scoring is the/a major issue.

2 goals in a match and you win?

Joke. imho. Embarrassing to all and sundry quite frankly.

How to fix that problem - and make it more watchable to Jill & Joe Smith and their kids?

Less players for starters. Helps the congestion.

Umpires enforcing the f'n rules - reward the great tackle, pay the high tackle free quickly - and be consistent.

Maybe have a (say) 40m line from goal rather than 50m - and a goal from outside 40 gets 9 points or whatever.

Zones too, clearly.....

It will die without a lot of change.

It's a simple scenario.

The men are elite Male athletes and even they have trouble covering the ground unless they are special.

Women simply need smaller grounds.

Removing players won't ease congestion it will only open space ahead and behind the play as players tend to get "sucked in" to the contest and the women don't have the same ability to clear congestion as males do as they don't kick it as long or handball it as far (generally).

Beyond that I'd actually opt for larger benches.

It would allow them to stay fresher for longer.

Re: Re: 2019 AFLW Votes - Round 5 vs Pies

Reply #22 – March 06, 2019, 08:11:24 am

Just leave it as it is. The spectacle will improve as players and coaches learn on the job and fitness and conditioning evolves.

The umpiring is the only issue that needs urgent attention.

Re: Re: 2019 AFLW Votes - Round 5 vs Pies

Reply #23 – March 06, 2019, 08:15:48 am

There 0.5s difference between men and women at the Olympic 100m, and the girls run the marathon in 2hr 15m which is not far off men at 2hr 01m.

I doubt you could even notice the difference on a football field without video analysis, unless it was a straight up footrace from FB to FF!

Probably the biggest visible issue is kicking power, but it's improving all the time. Regardless about 50% of all kicks for both men and women are wasted.

Re: AFLW - General discussion thread

Reply #24 – March 06, 2019, 09:06:16 am

Just a sweeping generalisation…

I've seen 3 of our games this year....the last 3

The first one (against GWS) was far superior (from both sides ) to anything I saw last season.
Skills, kicking accuracy, tackling....even the odd bit of "fancy play" was all up on last year.

The last two games seemed to drift back into a bit of the scrappiness and uncertainty of previous seasons.

There could be multiple reasons for that (pressure perhaps) , but the product on display in the GWS game was well worth the watch.

Re: AFLW - General discussion thread

Reply #25 – March 06, 2019, 10:09:29 am

Quote from: Lods – on March 06, 2019, 09:06:16 am

There could be multiple reasons for that (pressure perhaps) , but the product on display in the GWS game was well worth the watch.

I suppose GWS is under AFL control and takes the AFL mandate to play attractive football more seriously than the other clubs.

Remembering we got the blame for playing unattractive football back at the start of last season, yet it seems that in 2019 we are no longer the alleged "common denominator of negativity", why aren't these other clubs called out in the media, is it because their CEOs and Presidents are in positions of power in the AFL and AFL media?

FWIW, I also was thinking much the same regarding game lines. I wonder if the explanation for the change in spectacle is perhaps the change in umpiring emphasis, be it deliberate or unintentional. Does the match day pattern follow a certain set of umpires?

Re: AFLW - General discussion thread

Reply #26 – March 06, 2019, 10:46:34 am

Quote from: LP – on March 06, 2019, 10:09:29 am

I suppose GWS is under AFL control and takes the AFL mandate to play attractive football more seriously than the other clubs.

Remembering we got the blame for playing unattractive football back at the start of last season, yet it seems that in 2019 we are no longer the alleged "common denominator of negativity", why aren't these other clubs called out in the media, is it because their CEOs and Presidents are in positions of power in the AFL and AFL media?

FWIW, I also was thinking much the same regarding game lines. I wonder if the explanation for the change in spectacle is perhaps the change in umpiring emphasis, be it deliberate or unintentional. Does the match day pattern follow a certain set of umpires?

From what I have seen, the umpiring is consistent (in its inconsistency) across the board. They must be following an AFL directive ... or the AFLW has scoured the suburban leagues and recruited the worst umpires going around.

Re: AFLW - General discussion thread

Reply #27 – March 06, 2019, 10:52:50 am

Quote from: DJC – on March 06, 2019, 10:46:34 am

From what I have seen, the umpiring is consistent (in its inconsistency) across the board. They must be following an AFL directive ... or the AFLW has scoured the suburban leagues and recruited the worst umpires going around.

I'm not upset that AFLW looks more like suburban football, live suburban footy has probably been netter to watch than AFL for the last few years anyway. The thing that brings the AFLW and AFL spectacle undone is the broadcasters willingness to rip apart every contest and decision with ultra slow motion replays. At suburban live footy no slow motions are present to stop you focusing on with the next chain of play!

The problem with the AFL spectacle is more often the broadcast not the product!

Re: Re: 2019 AFLW Votes - Round 5 vs Pies

Reply #28 – March 06, 2019, 02:09:22 pm

Quote from: LP – on March 06, 2019, 08:15:48 am

There 0.5s difference between men and women at the Olympic 100m, and the girls run the marathon in 2hr 15m which is not far off men at 2hr 01m.

I doubt you could even notice the difference on a football field without video analysis, unless it was a straight up footrace from FB to FF!

Probably the biggest visible issue is kicking power, but it's improving all the time. Regardless about 50% of all kicks for both men and women are wasted.

Don't look at elite athletes from both genders in a very specific discipline regarding covering the ground for less than 15 seconds in one sprint.

Marathon runners:

https://www.verywellfit.com/what-is-a-good-time-for-running-a-marathon-2911426

In terms of average marathon times, the median marathon finishing time in 2016 for men in U.S. marathons was 4:22:07 (9:59 minutes per mile pace), according to Running USA. The median finishing time for women was 4:47:40 (10:58 minutes per mile pace). Thats a 20% variance in performance over the course of the marathon. During each Mile we are talking about 10% variance in pace.

Keeping all that in mind, AFLW is in its 3rd season. Even their most seasoned players are 3rd year in the system. The AFL players are career footballers by comparison. They have been through a junior system that has been aimed at producing an elite AFL footballer and competition for spots has been quite different when compared to females.

The result is you are comparing an elite male marathoner, vs a female marathoner who might only be going at Median pace. THAT is the difference I am thinking is going to be significant here.

So, contrasting that with this link about the fastest marathoners ever:

https://www.runnersworld.com/races-places/a20823734/these-are-the-worlds-fastest-marathoners-and-marathon-courses/

I get it, they are relative to each others competition, but these things shouldnt be disregarded. When playing on grounds like Icon park, this is a massive variance for these girls to contend with.

Food for thought:

http://www.stpats.vic.edu.au/en/news/article/1st-xviii-match-report-2015-herald-sun-shield-fi/

St Patrick’s College 10.12 (72) d Essendon Keilor College 6.7 (43)

Names of some of the players that played that day: Daniel Rioli, Jacob Hopper

Now these guys played down at Port Melbourne as year 12's.

Is that an average score?? I don't know. I can't answer that, but compared to AFL mens, its not a big score.

Coming back to compare the mens vs womens, check out that actual statistics (to lessen bias, I will look at the stats for one round in each year):

https://www.afl.com.au/stats

AFL Mens Round 1, 2018:

Avg Kicks: 212.3
Avg Handballs: 161.2
Avg Disposals: 373.5
Avg Marks: 90
Avg Hit Outs: 38.8
Avg Frees For: 20.5
Avg Frees Against: 20.6
Avg Tackles: 64.8
Avg Goals: 11.9
Avg Behinds: 11.0

AFLW Round 1, 2018:

https://www.afl.com.au/womens/matches/stats

Avg Kicks: 126.3
Avg Handballs: 61.5
Avg Disposals: 187.9
Avg Marks: 36.5
Avg Hit Outs: 24.7
Avg Frees For: 15
Avg Frees Against: 15
Avg Tackles: 60.8
Avg Goals: 4.9
Avg Behinds: 37.8

Re: AFLW - General discussion thread

Reply #29 – March 06, 2019, 02:37:15 pm

I won't try to claim they are equal, but I won't blame the differences for the spectacle.

They should not play the same game style, yet the AFLW seems hell bent on imitating the men.

When I watch the EPLW or the girls Rugby they are quite accomplished, but the trick seems to be having an emphasis on other aspects of the game to the brute power focus of the men. For example in the EPLW they move the ball with far higher cadence and agility than the men, they play a faster style in which there is little emphasis on controlling tempo or physical contests.

Politically incorrect as this may be there is potentially a difference, the AFLW is dominated by "other political interests" while the EPLW and girls Rugby are not in that they remain more neutral. It may take a while before AFLW finds it's balance, between females wanting to be elite female sports-people in a female sport equivalent of the men, and females wanting equality to male sports-people. In some respects I think the spectacle has been hijacked by one of these agendas. Some believe the ideals can coexist, I'm not so sure well see the best of the sport if that is the case. To be elite a female sport should be tactically tailored to use the skills and abilities of females, we cannot deny the physical and psychological differences.

Of course I expect some to accuse me of misogyny or sexism for stating this belief.