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Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
If we were going to copy another competition,  I'd rather copy the English Premier League.

Play each team twice home and away.  At the end of a 34 game season you have your Premier.

Most consistent team wins the league.




Add a team from Tasmania and Canberra.
Have a ten team Premier league (AFL).
Have a ten team Divison 2
Promotion and relegation.
Each team plays each other twice.
18 game season with finals.
Top 2 Teams (D2)go up.
Bottom 2 (AFL) go down.

Oops!
Bad idea ::)

Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
If we were going to copy another competition,  I'd rather copy the English Premier League.

Play each team twice home and away.  At the end of a 34 game season you have your Premier.

Most consistent team wins the league.

Obviously if there was any chance of the AFL and AFLPA agreeing to that many games, it would happen, but its not going to happen.

My suggested proposal is to keep it similar to the current length.

Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #17 –
Quote from: Peter Brady – on

Add a team from Tasmania and Canberra.
Have a ten team Premier league (AFL).
Have a ten team Divison 2
Promotion and relegation.
Each team plays each other twice.
18 game season with finals.
Top 2 Teams go up.
Bottom 2 go down.

Oops!
Bad idea ::)

Under 1 of my original suggestions i eluded to earlier, i suggested the same addition of those 2 teams.

It would make the whole conference/division system a million times easier to implement, understand and manipulate to give better results.

Problem with the 2 up and 2 down type scenario is the salary cap, and retention of players from the lower clubs.

Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #18 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Under 1 of my original suggestions i eluded to earlier, i suggested the same addition of those 2 teams.

It would make the whole conference/division system a million times easier to implement, understand and manipulate to give better results.

Problem with the 2 up and 2 down type scenario is the salary cap, and retention of players from the lower clubs.

And we'd be stuck in Division 2 :(
I wonder though ( just being serious for a moment. ;))
I reckon there would be as much interest in the club even if they were languishing in that second division.
Sponsorship, gate receipts, memberships even broadcast rights would still be strong for all those D2 sides.

Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #19 –
Quote from: Peter Brady – on
And we'd be stuck in Division 2 :(
I wonder though ( just being serious for a moment. ;))
I reckon there would be as much interest in the club even if they were languishing in that second division.
Sponsorship, gate receipts, memberships even broadcast rights would still be strong for all those D2 sides.
Initially, sure.

Long term? No hope.

How many kids are going to grow up supporting Div 2 sides. Especially when they wouldn't get as much (if any) air time by comparison.

Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #20 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Initially, sure.

Long term? No hope.

How many kids are going to grow up supporting Div 2 sides. Especially when they wouldn't get as much (if any) air time by comparison.

But it would be changing all the time with 2 up 2 down
A 20% change every year. It would be a pretty stinking club that was stuck in Division 2 for very long.
Fox would cream themselves broadcasting every Premier League and divvy 2 game.
There wouldn't be as much difference between a 10 team AFL and its 2nd division as there is between a 20 team English Premier League and its 2nd divison.

Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #21 –
Quote from: Peter Brady – on
But it would be changing all the time with 2 up 2 down
A 20% change every year. It would be a pretty stinking club that was stuck in Division 2 for very long.
Fox would cream themselves broadcasting every Premier League and divvy 2 game.
There wouldn't be as much difference between a 10 team AFL and its 2nd division as there is between a 20 team English Premier League and its 2nd divison.

One major difference between AFL and EPL is 100's of millions of people interested in it.

AFL is struggling from saturation now, more games and teams is probably not ideal.

Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #22 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
One major difference between AFL and EPL is 100's of millions of people interested in it.

AFL is struggling from saturation now, more games and teams is probably not ideal.

A couple more would make little difference and be balanced be the promotion/relegation anticipation.
We're mot talking too many more games
The more I think about it the more I think it could work.

Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #23 –
You would have to overhaul the player system too.

Imagine Patrick Cripps languishing in Division 2?

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #24 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
You would have to overhaul the player system too.

Imagine Patrick Cripps languishing in Division 2?

If you mess with the player system then you create the problem of making it difficult for weaker teams to advance. What happens now in the EPL if a quality player finds himself in a relegated team?

I was a bit tongue in cheek when I took up your EPL idea. Having thought about it though, it wouldn't be the same as EPL.
With 10 teams per division, rather than 20, interest in Division 2 would only be marginally less than Division 1 because with smaller divisions than the EPL have teams would be moving back and forth regularly.
Rusted on fans  of Carlton, St Kilda, Adelaide etc would still be a passionate. Coverage of games wouldn't change much with the addition of two extra sides. Add the extra consideration that your team has a 20% chance of dropping or advancing to another division. It adds a bit of excitement to the end of the season. You certainly wouldn't get a lot of tanking. ;D

I don't know. What would be the advantages of being in Division 1. Premiership prestige? Maybe we're getting back to a Conference system rather than a Division system. Ideally a reduction in sides to around 14 that allows for a complete Home/Away fixture may be the simplest and fairest way to resolve any advantage /disadvantage.

Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #25 –
Quote from: Peter Brady – on
If you mess with the player system then you create the problem of making it difficult for weaker teams to advance. What happens now in the EPL if a quality player finds himself in a relegated team?
Thats the thing.  In the EPL, a quality player who plays for a relegated team, whether in contract or not is able to be purchased by another team.  They don't have salary caps, and they have the ability to transfer players during transfer windows that open and shut.  If we go towards this model, we will need to overhaul how players are able to move in the AFL and that generally will mean that we end up at free agency (which is not necessarily a bad thing).



Quote
I was a bit tongue in cheek when I took up your EPL idea. Having thought about it though, it wouldn't be the same as EPL.
With 10 teams per division, rather than 20, interest in Division 2 would only be marginally less than Division 1 because with smaller divisions than the EPL have teams would be moving back and forth regularly.
Rusted on fans  of Carlton, St Kilda, Adelaide etc would still be a passionate. Coverage of games wouldn't change much with the addition of two extra sides. Add the extra consideration that your team has a 20% chance of dropping or advancing to another division. It adds a bit of excitement to the end of the season. You certainly wouldn't get a lot of tanking. ;D

I don't know. What would be the advantages of being in Division 1. Premiership prestige? Maybe we're getting back to a Conference system rather than a Division system. Ideally a reduction in sides to around 14 that allows for a complete Home/Away fixture may be the simplest and fairest way to resolve any advantage /disadvantage.

Players will always want to play at the "top level".

Conferences and the like have scope to end up with a bastardised tier competition (we may already be seeing that a little bit with the current player movement).

Everyone wants to win a flag, and everyone wants to play for a premiership contender, and will do so for less money because money will pay the bills, but sports are sports.  Ultimately, you play them to win and the money differences are not big enough to be a money hunter.

i.e.  Base wages are about 100k mark.  Play 20 games a year at roughly 5 grand a game, and you are set to earn 200k a year minimum.  Your cost of living expenses are pretty low, as the club provides a lot of gear, flights, food, medical expenses, etc.  Anything over an above this, for even 5 years, means pocketing a million dollars plus in wages.

The average joe in the street will see 1 million in wages over 10-15 years minimum.  Not 5.  All whilst still able to gain an education that will see them able to have a profesional career post footy in pretty much any profession of choice, and half the time if they stay involved in footy as coaches, or "consulting" they will still earn over and above your average person in the street.

The carrots are simply not great enough to sacrifice success for money, unless you get paid an exhorbitantly high figure, and even then, you might find that players will still sacrifice the big $$ for a work life balance, that will yield them a half decent shot at a flag. 

This is why free agency as it currently operates is seeing players jump from bad clubs to good clubs at fairly high wages, and by the looks of things, free agents arent flowing the other way, and its actually a mechanism being used to keep average contracts of players down.

"Accept less dollars, and we can attract better free agents".

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #26 –
You guys who want a relegation will find a hell of a lot more opposition to the idea than what i've suggested.
I'm not sure that there is any benefits either.

I can see pretty quickly that teams will come and go...and by that i mean from the entire competition Fitzroy style.

The AFL want equilization, not segregation.

Under my system, all i'm doing is creating a fair draw that cannot be altered by the powers that be to suit their agenda.

Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #27 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
You guys who want a relegation will find a hell of a lot more opposition to the idea than what i've suggested.
I'm not sure that there is any benefits either.

I can see pretty quickly that teams will come and go...and by that i mean from the entire competition Fitzroy style.

The AFL want equilization, not segregation.

Under my system, all i'm doing is creating a fair draw that cannot be altered by the powers that be to suit their agenda.

You are right of course. It's not going to come in. There would be too much resistance. It's just throwing out a discussion. I'm not sure I'd even like to see it so I'll have one last go and finish up.  ;D

Relegation would not have the same impact in a ten team division as it would in a competition like the 20 team EPL
Clubs would still be supported, sponsored and receive the same coverage as they do now.
Would anyone be less supportive of Carlton in Division 2?  I doubt it! They would be anticipating the rise.  :D
Teams would move regularly between divisions. The draw would be pretty simple. Each teams plays each other twice -Home and Away
Division 1 play a four or five team finals competition. Division 2 play a four or five team finals competition.

Take this years finishing order and add a couple of teams.

    DIVISION 1
RICHMOND
WEST COAST
COLLINGWOOD
HAWTHORN
MELBOURNE
SYDNEY
GWS
GEELONG
NORTH MELBOURNE
PORT ADELAIDE

  DIVISION 2
ESSENDON
ADELAIDE
WESTERN BULLDOGS
FREMANTLE
BRISBANE
ST KILDA
GOLD COAST
CARLTON
TASMANIA
CANBERRA

The division 2 teams couldn't be premiers this year. They're not going to be anyway. ;D
Essendon and Adelaide are going up to Division 1 (depending on whether you play a finals series in division 2)
North and Port are going down to Division 2.
With good recruiting Carlton are a chance to move up at the end of next year.

Now take away the promotion/ relegation and there are your conferences, so we pretty much agree ;D ;D

Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #28 –
Quote from: Peter Brady – on
You are right of course. It's not going to come in. There would be too much resistance. It's just throwing out a discussion. I'm not sure I'd even like to see it so I'll have one last go and finish up.  ;D

Relegation would not have the same impact in a ten team division as it would in a competition like the 20 team EPL
Clubs would still be supported, sponsored and receive the same coverage as they do now.
Would anyone be less supportive of Carlton in Division 2?  I doubt it! They would be anticipating the rise.  :D
Teams would move regularly between divisions. The draw would be pretty simple. Each teams plays each other twice -Home and Away
Division 1 play a four or five team finals competition. Division 2 play a four or five team finals competition.

Take this years finishing order and add a couple of teams.

    DIVISION 1
RICHMOND
WEST COAST
COLLINGWOOD
HAWTHORN
MELBOURNE
SYDNEY
GWS
GEELONG
NORTH MELBOURNE
PORT ADELAIDE

  DIVISION 2
ESSENDON
ADELAIDE
WESTERN BULLDOGS
FREMANTLE
BRISBANE
ST KILDA
GOLD COAST
CARLTON
TASMANIA
CANBERRA

The division 2 teams couldn't be premiers this year. They're not going to be anyway. ;D
Essendon and Adelaide are going up to Division 1 (depending on whether you play a finals series in division 2)
North and Port are going down to Division 2.
With good recruiting Carlton are a chance to move up at the end of next year.

Now take away the promotion/ relegation and there are your conferences, so we pretty much agree ;D ;D

The draw is easy, everyone plays eachother twice......for a total of 38 games?

Why not just have the current system and do the same thing and end up with 34 games?

The reason why is that its too many games, the AFL, players and every man and his dog doesn't want that many games.

So on that point alone, the rest of the 'system' is irrelevent. It won't work.

Players want less games.
Supporters want less bias.
AFL want more attractive football.

Thus, my proposed system.

Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #29 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
The draw is easy, everyone plays eachother twice......for a total of 38 games?

Why not just have the current system and do the same thing and end up with 34 games?

The reason why is that its too many games, the AFL, players and every man and his dog doesn't want that many games.

So on that point alone, the rest of the 'system' is irrelevent. It won't work.

Players want less games.
Supporters want less bias.
AFL want more attractive football.

Thus, my proposed system.

That was poorly written on my part, and poorly interpreted on your part. ;D
You would only play the other teams in your division. You would play them twice. A total of 18 games -Home and Away-Plus a four or five team final series. Less games, much simpler.  If you want to call it a conference and do away with the promotion /relegation fine.