Macau Crash

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Macau Crash

November 20, 2018, 08:13:30 am

How lucky is this kid, the others drivers, spectators and staff of the Formula 3 event. It's an engineering miracle that people were not killed. I'm glad she is out of surgery and looks likely to recover, hard to believe she is tweeting from the hospital bed.

But my nature makes me prone to pose the unpopular questions, and I can't help but pose this question despite not knowing what went wrong.

Is this what equality quotas get you when anti-discrimination laws become extreme, did this kid deserve to be out there?

Did she have enough of the basic skills to deal with a car problem at 280kph, or was she just there because of her gender and an allocated spot?

If there are quotas in this sport, how is that fair on other drivers, officials and spectators, how is it fair on her when she could lose her life? The equality argument will be it's her life to lose, but she has no right to possibly take others with her!

I'm interested in the thoughts of others, because outside of this specific incident it's an issue being discussed across several sports and life in general.

Re: Macau Crash

Reply #1 – November 20, 2018, 09:34:44 am

Bloody female drivers, there was one in the shopping centre the other day!...........but I digress.

Re: Macau Crash

Reply #2 – November 20, 2018, 09:37:50 am

Quote from: LP – on November 20, 2018, 08:13:30 am

How lucky is this kid, the others drivers, spectators and staff of the Formula 3 event. It's an engineering miracle that people were not killed. I'm glad she is out of surgery and looks likely to recover, hard to believe she is tweeting from the hospital bed.

But my nature makes me prone to pose the unpopular questions, and I can't help but pose this question despite not knowing what went wrong.

Is this what equality quotas get you when anti-discrimination laws become extreme, did this kid deserve to be out there?

Did she have enough of the basic skills to deal with a car problem at 280kph, or was she just there because of her gender and an allocated spot?

If there are quotas in this sport, how is that fair on other drivers, officials and spectators, how is it fair on her when she could lose her life? The equality argument will be it's her life to lose, but she has no right to possibly take others with her!

I'm interested in the thoughts of others, because outside of this specific incident it's an issue being discussed across several sports and life in general.

Yeah, not sure I'm going to get into the argument of quotas in this sport...we've had plenty of instances of flying cars driven by some of the best drivers in the world (Webber, Barrichello etc). Most of these are not the fault of the driver directly involved, but of either car design, or the actions of other traffic around them contributing to the launch.

Motor racing is one sport where theoretically women should be able to compete evenly at elite level (and some do - Simona De Silvestro), the fact that it is still male dominated just points to the sheer volume of male drivers out there imho.

I've been watching motor sport for 40 years....and have an interest in the history of it going back even further than that, and what really comes home about this crash is that if you saw this 20 years ago......it would have most likely ended in tragedy. The question I have is whether the huge advances in cockpit safety in recent years has lead to a slightly gung ho attitude to racing among the younger driver these days. Most of whom have not grown up in the same dangerous motor racing environment as those drivers from past eras.

Quite frankly, if drivers such as Verstappen, Vettel etc behaved as they currently do on track back in the 60s & 70s....the other drivers would have made sure they never drove again, as they would be a danger to all.

Re: Macau Crash

Reply #3 – November 20, 2018, 10:55:41 am

Quote from: malo – on November 20, 2018, 09:37:50 am

I've been watching motor sport for 40 years....and have an interest in the history of it going back even further than that, and what really comes home about this crash is that if you saw this 20 years ago......it would have most likely ended in tragedy. The question I have is whether the huge advances in cockpit safety in recent years has lead to a slightly gung ho attitude to racing among the younger driver these days. Most of whom have not grown up in the same dangerous motor racing environment as those drivers from past eras.

Quite frankly, if drivers such as Verstappen, Vettel etc behaved as they currently do on track back in the 60s & 70s....the other drivers would have made sure they never drove again, as they would be a danger to all.

Yes, I had the very same debate with a mate just last week when Verstappen jobbed Ocon.

Verstappen is a moron, but Ocon is probably a goose as well, yet what right does Verstappen or any driver have to ask for another driver not to race them! If you are slow you are slow not matter where you are on the track, in the rankings or in tactics. If you are good enough pass, if not be passed!

FYI, I posted the above because after viewing the crash I am reminded of a young lad I know who had been driving carts since he was in primary school and has recently progressed into the higher formulas as a teenager. He's very good probably in the top half-dozen in country. And as you know at that "colt level", I know no other better asexual term to use to describe it, there are only a few cars and very few spots available. It's big money for mum and dads to fund their child without sponsorship or opportunity from some organisation.

At the moment the way funding is going in motorsport there is clear advantage to being in a particular team, and to be a particular gender, with only a few spots available all the best drivers want to be there. But he's missed out and they have put a young lass in a seat who is not considered to be anywhere close to competitive with the other drivers, but it's the right thing for the team to do from the perspective of commercial and government sponsorship, and in publicity perception. If they give it out on merit, the team gets accused of becoming a boys club, and they get the inappropriate label from the various groups. On ranking the young lass isn't in the top 30 let alone the top 3 or 4, in fact because of the limited numbers that participate she is ranked in the bottom 15%, but they have chosen to pro-actively discriminate on her behalf almost to avoid trouble. Does it really need to be on race day though, in such a dangerous sport?

Where is the common sense in all this?

The activists will rally, they will claim the lass won't get better if not given the opportunity. But in reality she has been racing against her peers(male or female) for many years already, is ranked against them without discrimination based on results, and isn't high in the rankings at all! What she has is very politically active support and no fear of using it!

Does that make her a target, even worse than lacking ability was that young lass in Macau targeted?

Re: Macau Crash

Reply #4 – November 20, 2018, 06:09:52 pm

So someone has an awful crash, who happens to be a chick.
You immediately wonder if it is because she is a chick?

In her first race in F4, she scored points. Despite being the youngest in the field.
In her second race, she was on for a podium before being hit.
In her 3rd race, she had the fastest lap, but race was stopped due to bad weather.

As for the crash....she ran into the back of someone who was slowing for yellow flags. Why were the yellow flags showing, because someone made a mistake. Its unclear if it was a marshall or race official. But it was an error that they were out.

She can drive.

Re: Macau Crash

Reply #5 – November 20, 2018, 07:58:47 pm

Quote from: LP – on November 20, 2018, 08:13:30 am

. It's an engineering miracle that people were not killed

Its not an engineering miracle Sophia or or anyone else wasnt killed, it was pure luck. Whilst flying through the air at 300kmh, she missed a pole but a few feet. If she hit that pole, no amount of engineering would have saved her. IMO, young Sophia should buy a lifetime supply of lottery tickets, retire from motorsport and chose a more docile/safe occupation. She has used up all her nine lives in one go, I have never seen anything as wild as that in motorsport. If that was my child, over my dead body she would get back in a race car.

Re: Macau Crash

Reply #6 – November 20, 2018, 08:10:39 pm

Quote from: Gointocarlton – on November 20, 2018, 07:58:47 pm

Its not an engineering miracle Sophia or or anyone else wasnt killed, it was pure luck. Whilst flying through the air at 300kmh, she missed a pole but a few feet. If she hit that pole, no amount of engineering would have saved her. IMO, young Sophia should buy a lifetime supply of lottery tickets, retire from motorsport and chose a more docile/safe occupation. She has used up all her nine lives in one go, I have never seen anything as wild as that in motorsport. If that was my child, over my dead body she would get back in a race car.

You don't give the engineers enough credit. How many deaths were there pre-senna days? How many since? Cars are faster, but less deaths. Still plenty of crashes, but less deaths.

Sure, there was a bit of luck involved, but the engineering of the cars saved her more than luck did.

As for giving it up? Webber chose not too despite some of the worse crashes i've seen.

[flash=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/v/9kvDkNXLrn4[/flash]

and

[flash=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/v/pW42jZGP5yU[/flash]

Re: Macau Crash

Reply #7 – November 21, 2018, 12:37:18 am

Poor old downtrodden white LP...
I don’t know if they have quotas, BUT IF THEY DO !!!

Re: Macau Crash

Reply #8 – November 21, 2018, 07:42:17 am

Quote from: northernblue – on November 21, 2018, 12:37:18 am

Poor old downtrodden white LP...
I don’t know if they have quotas, BUT IF THEY DO !!!

Yes, I suppose I'm oppressed by a minority that believe two wrongs make a right!

I don't claim to know the answer to these issues, I'm not that arrogant, and I'm not even sure a real issue exists as it often appears to impartial observers like it is an artificial social construct, but I'll never stop asking the questions!

Re: Macau Crash

Reply #9 – November 21, 2018, 09:07:03 am

By the way, check this out......this was when Sophia was 14...she can drive alright....

https://youtu.be/5Cfw3XC5AnE

(the highlights from her races are 2.15 in)

Re: Macau Crash

Reply #10 – November 21, 2018, 09:26:28 am

Quote from: malo – on November 21, 2018, 09:07:03 am

By the way, check this out......this was when Sophia was 14...she can drive alright....

https://youtu.be/5Cfw3XC5AnE

(the highlights from her races are 2.15 in)

I'm not specifically question that.

~~Is it a Spec series?~~

Yes it is;

Quote

Everything that is not explicitly authorised and anything that is not specified:
(i) In these regulations
(ii) In the workshop manual/nomenclature relating to the Ginetta G40 Junior
Championship
(iii) In any official technical bulletin that may be published
is strictly forbidden.

Don't shoot me, just saying!

Re: Macau Crash

Reply #11 – November 21, 2018, 10:01:40 am

Quote from: LP – on November 21, 2018, 07:42:17 am

Yes, I suppose I'm oppressed by a minority that believe two wrongs make a right!

I don't claim to know the answer to these issues, I'm not that arrogant, and I'm not even sure a real issue exists as it often appears to impartial observers like it is an artificial social construct, but I'll never stop asking the questions!

It only exists in your mind, which you then regurgitate and then later blame the media or “them”

Re: Macau Crash

Reply #12 – November 21, 2018, 10:06:30 am

Quote from: cookie2 – on November 20, 2018, 09:34:44 am

Bloody female drivers, there was one in the shopping centre the other day!...........but I digress.

If it had been a male driver, instead of a female, I doubt we would be discussing it on here, now.

Re: Macau Crash

Reply #13 – November 21, 2018, 10:27:04 am

Quote from: northernblue – on November 21, 2018, 10:01:40 am

It only exists in your mind, which you then regurgitate and then later blame the media or “them”

Yet to you I would be one of "them!"

You are blind to your own prejudice, and you latch on to one narrow perspective out of the things I post.

Maintain the Rage!

Re: Macau Crash

Reply #14 – November 21, 2018, 11:27:11 am

Quote from: sandsmere – on November 21, 2018, 10:06:30 am

If it had been a male driver, instead of a female, I doubt we would be discussing it on here, now.

That was sorta my point - beware about getting in between "certain drivers" and a car park space at peak hour in the shopping area though - ouch!. Spectacular bingle alright though - eos afaic.