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Topic: Victorian State Election (Read 45138 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Victorian State Election

Reply #30 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Even spending $1.2 Billion not building a road. Top Bloke.

Just on that, i heard him address this on the radio last week.

The day after he got in he was shown the contracts for that. It was a crock of shi*. It wasn't going to cost $5-6 billion or whatever it was suggested, it was going to cost $20billion+.

So he was faced with a dilemma. Build something that the other mob sorted out, and cop all of the flack from the overspend that comes with it. At the same time eating into all the money he was going to use to fulfill everything he promised (rail crossing removal, mernda train line etc)
or
Bite the bullet, pay out the $1bil and do what he said he was going to do.

If i was in his position, i would've done the same thing.

Of course as soon as he ripped up the contract the libs got stuck into him, the whole time knowing that they screwed him over and he was damned if he built it or not.

Re: Victorian State Election

Reply #31 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Just on that, i heard him address this on the radio last week.

The day after he got in he was shown the contracts for that. It was a crock of shi*. It wasn't going to cost $5-6 billion or whatever it was suggested, it was going to cost $20billion+.

So he was faced with a dilemma. Build something that the other mob sorted out, and cop all of the flack from the overspend that comes with it. At the same time eating into all the money he was going to use to fulfill everything he promised (rail crossing removal, mernda train line etc)
or
Bite the bullet, pay out the $1bil and do what he said he was going to do.

If i was in his position, i would've done the same thing.

Of course as soon as he ripped up the contract the libs got stuck into him, the whole time knowing that they screwed him over and he was damned if he built it or not.

Just on that, this would include plenty of extras that can be used down the track such as property, plans, etc.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Victorian State Election

Reply #32 –
Quote from: Professer E – on
It's crown land and they have  had up to 11 rigs doing geotechnical work along the proposed route.   It's actually been well supervised, with truck movements monitored and noise restrictions etc. The lay down for the Hurstbridge track duplication was way worse,  pack of cowboys. Truckers were flogs.

The best route remains through Eltham, but the NIMBYs in that area can afford lawyers,  people in MacLeod, Watsonia and Rosanna can't.  It's gonna happen,  fact of life.

Proff i live in Greensborough and i agree that it would be better to go through lower plenty linking up with EarthLink at Springvale road, but I've been very interested and have seen the costing estimates.

They've gone with the cheapest option which ties into proposed eastern freeway upgrades.

I have been to as many of the consultations as possible and i think theyve used them as checkboxes rather than actual consultation.

Im not sure if any other option would be much different to be honest.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Victorian State Election

Reply #33 –
Quote from: capcom – on
But when does state govt suddenly stop on the fear they have no right to sign a contract.

Napthine was correct and Andrews even agreed that contracts should be honoured... until he changed his mind for the sake of expediency.  When it is built (and it will be) it'll cost a lot more

Napthine was never correct.This purely the Liberals fault, Andrews said before the contract was signed that he was never going to build it but he signed it anyway. He did it to wedge Labor knowing he was going to lose the election. Just signed it, no business case whatsoever, just pure politics. The business case was found to be very poor and needed tolls on other roads, like the Westgate Freeway, just to pay for it. Andrews called his bluff.

Re: Victorian State Election

Reply #34 –
Nobody can ever really know the truth, because the truth is based on data they choose to release, much of it cherry-picked no doubt.

They can make any project seem as good or as bad as you like, it's only in retrospect the truth outs! That's when you find out about diverted funds, pork barreling and straight out theft!

Question;

Is this result good or bad for Carlton FC, much of our recently awarded funding comes from the Federal Coalition?

Andrews seems to prefer the Handbaggers, CheatsFC and the Dawks for state level funding!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Victorian State Election

Reply #35 –
Quote from: LP – on
Nobody can ever really know the truth, because the truth is based on data they choose to release, much of it cherry-picked no doubt.

They can make any project seem as good or as bad as you like, it's only in retrospect the truth outs! That's when you find out about diverted funds, pork barreling and straight out theft!

Question;

Is this result good or bad for Carlton FC, much of our recently awarded funding comes from the Federal Coalition?

Andrews seems to prefer the Handbaggers, CheatsFC and the Dawks for state level funding!

We got $20M from the State Govt in the last budget.  Essendon, North Melbourne, St Kilda and the Western Bulldogs also got funding for stadium upgrades.  The AFL got money to upgrade Darklands.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Victorian State Election

Reply #36 –
Quote from: laj – on
Napthine was never correct.This purely the Liberals fault, Andrews said before the contract was signed that he was never going to build it but he signed it anyway. He did it to wedge Labor knowing he was going to lose the election. Just signed it, no business case whatsoever, just pure politics. The business case was found to be very poor and needed tolls on other roads, like the Westgate Freeway, just to pay for it. Andrews called his bluff.

Mr Andrews disputed whether the contracts signed by the Government with the wining consortium yesterday were legally binding.

“There is nothing to walk away from, be very clear about this, the contracts are not worth the paper they’re written on,” Mr Andrews said. “This is not a legally binding contract.”

One billion plus later
 

Re: Victorian State Election

Reply #37 –
Quote from: capcom – on
Mr Andrews disputed whether the contracts signed by the Government with the wining consortium yesterday were legally binding.

“There is nothing to walk away from, be very clear about this, the contracts are not worth the paper they’re written on,” Mr Andrews said. “This is not a legally binding contract.”

One billion plus later

Dont believe everything they write about 1 billion plus later.

They often do the creative accounting.

The plans cost X
The property acquisition to put the proposal into realistic territory (including compensation for people losing their homes) cost X (note real estate will have higher value today than it did when it was purchased)
The legal fees of signed contracts cost X
The exit fees of signed contracts cost X
The Productivity loss of the employees who worked on the proposal and then cancellation cost X
The cost of borrowing money to make the proposal "real" cost X.

In total, it cost 1 billion plus only for Mr. Andrews to "not build a road".

Only one component of which is his direct fault, and wouldn't have cost 1 billion by itself.  It's also worth remembering, that the money borrowed for said road, sat in a bank account earning interest until it was fully cancelled which was ignored.

This is how your political spin doctor statement arrives at Mr. Andrews costing 1 billion+ to not build a road.

Its all bulldust.  Politicians should be running the AFL.  They are career liars.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Victorian State Election

Reply #38 –
It's interesting, I think you'll find the $1B is/was offset by or eliminated by other contracts.

No company that size would deliberately exclude themselves from future offerings that might add up to trillions, by taking a short term billion now!

So I doubt if the state has ever really paid that money, or if that amount ever really existed, and nobody will chase it as long as the opportunity to join a tender remains. Given GDP adjustments, and all the other contracts since, they have probably already got it well and truly covered!

That is not how money is wasted, a better example of waste is the news that one of the more recently completed new stations now has to be renovated for a fourth time. The first time the plans did not include skyrail, they had only just finished an upgrade when skyrail was announced. The second time the platform was built in the wrong position, there was an unsafe gap between some trains and the platform. The third time it was too short, it didn't fit the new trains on a future service and has to be extended! All up the first rebuild cost $30M, and by the time they have completed the fourth cycle it will allegedly cost more than $600M for a single train station that half a decade ago just needed a polish up! All this in the space of one term!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Victorian State Election

Reply #39 –
The entire subject should have never been raised in the first place. >:D

He had 4 years to deny the compensation amount and not once did he do it

Re: Victorian State Election

Reply #40 –
Quote from: capcom – on
The entire subject should have never been raised in the first place. >:D

He had 4 years to deny the compensation amount and never did

Would anyone have believed him?

A politician who admits to something admits guilt.  A politician who denies something is lying.

The opposition eat that stuff for breakfast.  If he says nothing, then the accusations don't stick, and it all recedes into the darkness.



"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Victorian State Election

Reply #41 –
Quote from: capcom – on
Mr Andrews disputed whether the contracts signed by the Government with the wining consortium yesterday were legally binding.

“There is nothing to walk away from, be very clear about this, the contracts are not worth the paper they’re written on,” Mr Andrews said. “This is not a legally binding contract.”

One billion plus later

He was very clear he was not building it at the time legal or not. It was an attempt by the Libs to wedge him knowing they weren't going to win the election. No business case, no anything, they just signed it. No ifs or buts on that no matters how it is spun. That was the Liberals fault and it cost a billion bucks.

Re: Victorian State Election

Reply #42 –
Quote from: laj – on
He was very clear he was not building it at the time legal or not. It was an attempt by the Libs to wedge him knowing they weren't going to win the election. No business case, no anything, they just signed it. No ifs or buts on that no matters how it is spun. That was the Liberals fault and it cost a billion bucks.

... and they signed the contract 1 month before the caretaker period for the election started.






Re: Victorian State Election

Reply #43 –
Rumour i heard was that O'Brien asked for the penalty clause to be inserted, which is even more reprehensible.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Victorian State Election

Reply #44 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Proff i live in Greensborough and i agree that it would be better to go through lower plenty linking up with EarthLink at Springvale road, but I've been very interested and have seen the costing estimates.

They've gone with the cheapest option which ties into proposed eastern freeway upgrades.

I have been to as many of the consultations as possible and i think theyve used them as checkboxes rather than actual consultation.

Im not sure if any other option would be much different to be honest.

I'm in south morang and i think the route they chose was bollocks.

Do you remember the 4 routes?

a - chosen.
d - via kangaroo ground (too far out)
b and c - basically identical, the most obvious routes, slight variations between them.

So people vote, and i assume, most voted for either b or c. However, because they are so similar there is little to distinguish the 2, so one of the others gets majority by default.
In reality, it was the 3rd option.