Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel (Read 44904 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #135 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Cmon Lods, thats a bit naive.

Which footy club has ever come out and said we will be bottom 2 this year?

Bolton has always said he won't put a ceiling on expectations because anything is possible. For him, or anyone within the club, to say otherwise would be....
a) Opposite of what they've said previously.
b) Cause a division within the club due to mixed messages
c) be a red flag to any potential players/free agents coming in
d) be a red flag to any players potentially looking at their options elsewhere.
Come on kruds. That's a bit naive.
They would never have expected to be 1 and 8. They would not have expected to be sitting last at this stage .

'

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #136 –
CARLTON
B: Kade Simpson, Jacob Weitering, Nic Newman
HB: Caleb Marchbank, Levi Casboult, Dale Thomas
C: Sam Walsh, Patrick Cripps, Sam Petrevski-Seton
HF: Charlie Curnow, Mitch McGovern, Ed Curnow
F: Michael Gibbons, Harry McKay, Jack Silvagni
R: Matthew Kreuzer, Paddy Dow, Zac Fisher
Int: Lachie Plowman, David Cuningham, Liam Stocker, Matthew Kennedy

EMG: Will Setterfield, Harrison Macreadie, Alex Fasolo, Patrick Kerr

IN: Kade Simpson, Lachie Plowman, David Cuningham, Matthew Kennedy

OUT: Marc Murphy (Injured), Harrison Macreadie (Omitted), Lochie O'Brien (Omitted), Will Setterfield (Omitted)

Setters and Macreadie need to find form in the VFL. Both have had long layoffs and need the workouts.

ST KILDA
B: Daniel McKenzie, Nathan Brown, Shane Savage
HB: Callum Wilkie, Josh Battle, Jonathon Marsh
C: Ed Phillips, Sebastian Ross, Jack Newnes
HF: Jack Billings, Josh Bruce, Robbie Young
F: Dean Kent, Tim Membrey, Jade Gresham
R: Rowan Marshall, Jack Steele, Jack Sinclair
Int: Luke Dunstan, Blake Acres, Ben Long, Matthew Parker

EMG: Nick Coffield, Hunter Clark, Billy Longer, Brandon White

IN: Ben Long

OUT: Ben Paton (Managed)

I am amazed that St Kilda are not playing Longer against Kreuzer.  But what do I know?
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #137 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
The club has never said, not even in the Green Shoots days of yore, that they expected to lose games, or weren't worried if they lost. No club ever says it, and no club ever will, irrespective of what they may think behind the scenes. Neither Judd, nor Bolton, or anyone else will ever say "we expect to finish bottom 2." I don't know what their internal expectations were.

They said the expectation, when they swapped picks with Adelaide, was that they would rise up the ladder. As judd said, certainly weren't expecting 1-8. Probably wasn't in their worst nightmares.

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #138 –
Quote from: laj – on
They said the expectation, when they swapped picks with Adelaide, was that they would rise up the ladder. As judd said, certainly weren't expecting 1-8. Probably wasn't in their worst nightmares.

And which club would come out and say, "yes we fully expected to be 1-8." ?

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #139 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
And which club would come out and say, "yes we fully expected to be 1-8." ?
It's not a matter of saying it. I can't believe they were expecting it.but you are quite entitled to believe they're deceiving the supporters. I much prefer to believe they're  being frank.

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #140 –
Quote from: Lods – on
It's not a matter of saying it. I can't believe they were expecting it.but you are quite entitled to believe they're deceiving the supporters. I much prefer to believe they're  being frank.

They're not lying, but understanding of timing is needed. The Stocker pick swap was in November (22nd or 23rd?), and at the time, expecting Docherty back, and a few other things, they were probably fair dinkum wrt a rise up the ladder, Nobody could foresee that in early December Doc would miss another season. Nobody could foresee that we'd lose a couple of games by less than a kick. As Carey said, winning or losing games by less than a goal is down to luck.

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #141 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
And which club would come out and say, "yes we fully expected to be 1-8." ?

Full of ridiculous spin.

There is no way they expected to be 1-8 no what way you want to spin things. Don't tell us otherwise.

Must be getting harder and harder to find spin to suit your argument.

You point to spin, i'll point to the scoreboard.

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #142 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
They're not lying, but understanding of timing is needed. The Stocker pick swap was in November (22nd or 23rd?), and at the time, expecting Docherty back, and a few other things, they were probably fair dinkum wrt a rise up the ladder, Nobody could foresee that in early December Doc would miss another season. Nobody could foresee that we'd lose a couple of games by less than a kick. As Carey said, winning or losing games by less than a goal is down to luck.

If Judd gets on the television  and says "we weren't expecting to be 1 and 8" you have to take that at face value. He didn't have to say it. He could have answered any questions  in another manner.
 

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #143 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
They're not lying, but understanding of timing is needed. The Stocker pick swap was in November (22nd or 23rd?), and at the time, expecting Docherty back, and a few other things, they were probably fair dinkum wrt a rise up the ladder, Nobody could foresee that in early December Doc would miss another season. Nobody could foresee that we'd lose a couple of games by less than a kick. As Carey said, winning or losing games by less than a goal is down to luck.

Actually there's some creative license being applied to our thinking here.

Our pick swap with adelaide for the stocker pick meant that we anticipated that we were not going to be significantly worse off at the draft table with the bonus of getting Liam stocker last season.

It was a move done to get our next young player in the door a year ahead of time.

To win that trade we only need to finish within 14 spots on the ladder with adelaide given stocker is rated pick 6 (according to sos) last year.

Currently that's an 11 spot difference.  

It's worth remembering that this season still has life in it, and irrespective of where we finish I can't see adelaide finishing much higher than they are currently if they make finals at all.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #144 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Come on kruds. That's a bit naive.
They would never have expected to be 1 and 8. They would not have expected to be sitting last at this stage .

'

That is beside the point though Lods.

Does any club ever expect to be bottom 2?

If they do expect it, then they are probably not doing their job properly.
If they do expect it, and they say it publicly, then they are definitely not doing their job properly!

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
set a low target of 6 wins, whats he scared of?
This goes to what i was saying above.

Malthouse played that game and said he couldn't see where we'd lose a game. How did that work out for him?

The club is gunshy on putting out expectations because if they are not met, even with legitimate reasons as to why (ie half your list injured) the media and general public are not very understanding/forgiving and the pressure increases exponentially.

Why do players trot out the '1 week at a time' and equivalent cliches? Because if they say anything of substance, its used against them and the club. Say nothing, and you have nothing to worry about.

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #145 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Actually there's some creative license being applied to our thinking here.

Our pick swap with adelaide for the stocker pick meant that we anticipated that we were not going to be significantly worse off at the draft table with the bonus of getting Liam stocker last season.

It was a move done to get our next young player in the door a year ahead of time.

To win that trade we only need to finish within 14 spots on the ladder with adelaide given stocker is rated pick 6 (according to sos) last year.

Currently that's an 11 spot difference.  

It's worth remembering that this season still has life in it, and irrespective of where we finish I can't see adelaide finishing much higher than they are currently if they make finals at all.

Crows win if they get Grundy using our pick.....

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #146 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Actually there's some creative license being applied to our thinking here.

Our pick swap with adelaide for the stocker pick meant that we anticipated that we were not going to be significantly worse off at the draft table with the bonus of getting Liam stocker last season.

It was a move done to get our next young player in the door a year ahead of time.

To win that trade we only need to finish within 14 spots on the ladder with adelaide given stocker is rated pick 6 (according to sos) last year.

Currently that's an 11 spot difference.  

It's worth remembering that this season still has life in it, and irrespective of where we finish I can't see adelaide finishing much higher than they are currently if they make finals at all.

I'm sick of people bringing this swap up for all the wrong reasons. You have pointed to many of the right reasons.
I'll go a step further and add this one.

Is it possible that Stocker (rated pick 6) is better than any player in the upcoming draft?

That is pick 1 from this draft is a worse pick than Stocker.

Therefor not only did we get a better player (Stocker) than we could get this year, we got a bonus 1st round pick (Adelaide) on top of that.

Alternatively, perhaps the next draft is so relatively even that you can get an a-grade talent no matter where you pick in the first round.

Either way, looking at where our pick is vs where adelaides pick is as justification for a good/bad trade is ignoring a lot of other factors that probably carry more weight by comparison.

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #147 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Crows win if they get Grundy using our pick.....

If they take grundy off Collingwood we all win.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #148 –
So now stocker is pick 1 in the 2019 draft.
Ok fair enough the club obviously expected to finish bottom 2 just didn't want to  tell us.

Re: Pre-Game Prattle: AFL Rd 10: Carlton vs St Kilda at Marvel

Reply #149 –
Quote from: laj – on
Full of ridiculous spin.

There is no way they expected to be 1-8 no what way you want to spin things. Don't tell us otherwise.

Must be getting harder and harder to find spin to suit your argument.

You point to spin, i'll point to the scoreboard.

That arthritic, gnarled up index finger of yours must be ready to drop off with all the scoreboard pointing you do. At any rate, if you ever do take a break from looking at scoreboards, you may learn to appreciate a certain level of complexity in the way footy clubs work. It seems unlikely, but I thought I'd just put it out there.