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Re: General Discussions

Reply #1740 –
Noted today Mr Basil Zemplas going troppo over the recent surveys suggesting fulltime CBD office work is a thing of the past.

But like the Mayors of so many major cities Zemplas has a vested interest, the bulk of traders and the vibrancy of the city rely on foot traffic for the large chunk of business and security.

Now it won't' escape most that this tends to be the position taking by media / influencer types also, and one suspects the greatly degraded inner city lifestyle our celebs currently "bravely suffer" seems to be a major driver in this debate. Reinforcing the early push from corporate psychopaths for oversight of the downtrodden.

Meanwhile out in the burbs and back lots, local traders are finding that locals spending even 1 day a week locally results in a significant trade increase, it actually seems proportional to the days not spent travelling into the CBD. Of course this is disastrous for the Inner City influencers, because their favourite chefs have migrated to the lower rent outer city limits where nobody would dare to travel unless passing through on the way to the ski fields, a remote winery or the odd game of polo!

Such a difficult life, how can we possibly survive?

I'll put some thought into that as I wander down to our local recently decentralised boutique café for a latte, some smashed avo and a macrone to die for, and I promise to get back to you!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1741 –
Quote from: LP – on
Noted today Mr Basil Zemplas going troppo over the recent surveys suggesting fulltime CBD office work is a thing of the past.

But like the Mayors of so many major cities Zemplas has a vested interest, the bulk of traders and the vibrancy of the city rely on foot traffic for the large chunk of business and security.

Now it won't' escape most that this tends to be the position taking by media / influencer types also, and one suspects the greatly degraded inner city lifestyle our celebs currently "bravely suffer" seems to be a major driver in this debate. Reinforcing the early push from corporate psychopaths for oversight of the downtrodden.

Meanwhile out in the burbs and back lots, local traders are finding that locals spending even 1 day a week locally results in a significant trade increase, it actually seems proportional to the days not spent travelling into the CBD. Of course this is disastrous for the Inner City influencers, because their favourite chefs have migrated to the lower rent outer city limits where nobody would dare to travel unless passing through on the way to the ski fields, a remote winery or the odd game of polo!

Such a difficult life, how can we possibly survive?

I'll put some thought into that as I wander down to our local recently decentralised boutique café for a latte, some smashed avo and a macrone to die for, and I promise to get back to you!

Yep, Spotted One. Enjoy your smashed avo and macrone!

Many folks are discovering a brave new world since Covid, probably the only upside (of Covid).
*Work from home coupla days a week, much to the chagrin of some cynical, change resistant control freak (sociopathic?) bosses!
*Shop more locally outside the CBD.
*Avoid the traffic congestion, parking expenses/hassles and increased pollution of the CBD.
* ...feel free to add other benefits to avoiding the CBD (in any major city, though particularly Melb and Syd).

Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1742 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Yep, Spotted One. Enjoy your smashed avo and macrone!

Many folks are discovering a brave new world since Covid, probably the only upside (of Covid).
*Work from home coupla days a week, much to the chagrin of some cynical, change resistant control freak (sociopathic?) bosses!
*Shop more locally outside the CBD.
*Avoid the traffic congestion, parking expenses/hassles and increased pollution of the CBD.
* ...feel free to add other benefits to avoiding the CBD (in any major city, though particularly Melb and Syd).

Working from home is better for the environment.
Working from home is better for your mental health.
Working from home is better for the company (actual output has increased, counterintuitively)
Working from home is better for the locals.

.....but yes, some people who fork out big $'s to live and/or work in/from the city are suffering so its a 'big problem'.  ::)

If it wasn't for footy matches and rock concerts, i would never go to the city and that suits me just fine.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1743 –
And I'll grab this opportunity to wish all the folks here, their families and loved ones a safe and splendiferous Festive Season.

No holidays for Mrs Baggers and I, so simply enjoying a few days trips... besides, the critter is coming into season so gotta sit on the porch with a shotgun looking out for dogs seeking to 'service' her! Mrs Baggers chose her inside the house doggie diapers - pink with little animal images on them... good grief, fearsome looking Doberman in pink knickers!!!
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1744 –
Yes, there are benefits of working from home.  There are also negatives.  It is dependent on size, purpose of org and management.

 - General productivity and communication is dropping as people get comfortable with it.
 - There are more taking the P!ss with it again.
 - Lose the water cooler idea sharing/venting
 - Lose relationship with teams

Yes, local business benefit (by the time I think about lunch, get organised to get it, then eat it takes longer than at an office - so is the extra time made up?), but those that invested in their retail/hospitality business in CBD or other centres lose out.




Re: General Discussions

Reply #1745 –
It's a very big subject, the working from home v going into the office... but it needn't be a 'versus'.

There has been plenty of good research into the entire situation with all manner of pros and cons on each side. And it varies from nation to nation, also.

Australia, possessing more introverts than extroverts (about 60-40 from memory), sees working from home pretty strongly supported. However, with Teams, Zoom and even Skype being common place, contact and connection with others in the office when working from home is still achieved.

Mrs Baggers, an extrovert, for example, loves being in the office and the physical connection with others, however, when working from home she is on the tech connection for a good few hours each day... she does comment, though, that she gets more done working from home as there are fewer interruptions.

We are living through a significant change in workplace attitudes and disciplines. Horses for courses. It'll take time. Still plenty of teething issues, and as Dodge points out, there are some organizations where working from home is just impractical.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1746 –
I too suspect there is no going back. The high speed internet and edge technologies have changed the clerical worker landscape, you can be anywhere on the globe and still securely access the spreadsheets, almost as good or maybe even better than from a desk in a building. I wasn't sure about this at first, but watching the next generation of devices coming out you can see they are all geared for this purpose, those device manufacturers know the direction things are heading even if some of the less pliable clients refuse to accept!

For me the biggest advantage is for non-profits and public services, a huge chunk of their annual overheads go to infrastructure like buildings, energy, vehicles, maintenance, etc, etc. That can largely be eliminated freeing up million$ that would be far better off put to use in the core agendas.

As for some gaming the system, in that regard I do not think it matters where those so inclined are, it is their nature to often put more effort into avoiding work than the actual core task requires.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1747 –
Quote from: dodge – on
Yes, there are benefits of working from home.  There are also negatives.  It is dependent on size, purpose of org and management.

 - General productivity and communication is dropping as people get comfortable with it.
 - There are more taking the P!ss with it again.
 - Lose the water cooler idea sharing/venting
 - Lose relationship with teams

Yes, local business benefit (by the time I think about lunch, get organised to get it, then eat it takes longer than at an office - so is the extra time made up?), but those that invested in their retail/hospitality business in CBD or other centres lose out.


Yes, there's a fair bit of for and against.
It may be that we're in a bit of a honeymoon period with the productivity side of things in some jobs.
Folks will embrace it with different levels of enthusiasm and commitment.
How will that go over time?

What happens to all the office spaces in the middle of town?
Change to accomodation maybe...and that has a flow on effect to local shops.
It may be a bit early to make some judgements on the long term effects of more people working at home.

In my own profession of teaching, some aspects are easily adopted to distance learning.
We've been doing it for a while with correspondence school and school of the air etc
Discipline issues would largely disappear with the press of a button
But there's a downside in terms of the social interaction of kids and the development of some life-long friendships and connections.

We've seen how it would operate in some excellent documentary series like the "Jetsons".
But I'm not sure it would all be "Happy Days"
 

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1748 –
Certainly no going back.  Getting a balance of office and home is hard.  Certainly office space is - what space is needed for one/two days a week when everyone is in and 50-75% the rest of the time.
 
A big employee advantage you can have an appointment more easily eg see a doctor at anytime,  rather than stressing to get the first appointment before commuting ie the flexibility.

The worst is information sharing decreases - I won't bother that person for this one thing,  not worth it,  even though it affects my ability to do my job.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1749 –
Quote from: LP – on
I too suspect there is no going back. The high speed internet and edge technologies have changed the clerical worker landscape, you can be anywhere on the globe and still securely access the spreadsheets, almost as good or maybe even better than from a desk in a building. I wasn't sure about this at first, but watching the next generation of devices coming out you can see they are all geared for this purpose, those device manufacturers know the direction things are heading even if some of the less pliable clients refuse to accept!

For me the biggest advantage is for non-profits and public services, a huge chunk of their annual overheads go to infrastructure like buildings, energy, vehicles, maintenance, etc, etc. That can largely be eliminated freeing up million$ that would be far better off put to use in the core agendas.

[b]As for some gaming the system, in that regard I do not think it matters where those so inclined are, it is their nature to often put more effort into avoiding work than the actual core task requires. [/b]

100%, Spotted One. A small % of humans are simply malcontents, narcissists or even sociopaths... and there aint no way to make these poor folks happy. None. They're the white-anters, constant whingers and bleaters/woe-is-me types ('me' is their favourite word/topic). And catering, or attempting to cater, to these types is a ticket into a bottomless pit insatiable manipulation, selfishness and gloom.

Better to cater to the rest -yep, they have their down times too, times when stress, even burnout, gets the better of them, BUT, they respond well to simple acknowledgement, consideration and genuine thoughtfulness followed by appropriate action. These folks get the job, often with some good laughs along the way.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1750 –
Quote from: dodge – on
Yes, there are benefits of working from home.  There are also negatives.  It is dependent on size, purpose of org and management.

 - General productivity and communication is dropping as people get comfortable with it.
 - There are more taking the P!ss with it again.
 - Lose the water cooler idea sharing/venting
 - Lose relationship with teams

Yes, local business benefit (by the time I think about lunch, get organised to get it, then eat it takes longer than at an office - so is the extra time made up?), but those that invested in their retail/hospitality business in CBD or other centres lose out.

The first 2 points occur whether you are at home, or at the office. Long term, these people get found out and moved on, so its a non-issue IMO.
The last 2 points are more of a concern, but can be compensate for that by including more team building exercises, or social gatherings etc. You could argue that less of that is required if its specifically designed for that purpose. More bang for your buck.

I think Melbourne is somewhat of a unique case study in a way as we are a large city with a large spread. People come from far and wide compared to some others cities, especially around the world.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1751 –
Working from home, vs working at work.

You know, everyone always looks at the positives/negatives of doing so.  Ultimately its not about where you work, its about having clear KPI's and meeting those.

From what I have seen, the work from home stuff, generated a lot more useless work than actual work in a lot of people.  Also, if you get outsourced, because remote working sees work going offshore to someone getting paid less to do a lot more, then I dont see how people can complain.

When push comes to shove, there is a case for remote working, and a case for not, but ultimately its not a one size fits all approach.  I prefer not to commute, but there are some things you just cannot do remotely, and remote workers end up delegating tasks to people on premise, to get away with working from home, leaving on premises resources over worked.

Where this gets really problematic, is to do with what people consider work.  Also, when you get one of those useless resources, they can get away with a lot more remotely.  Although, i have seen plenty sleeping at the office.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1752 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Ive said it once and Ill say it again, the days of needing proof to chuck someone in jail are gone.
Wilkinson is a grub, as for Higgins, I best not comment.

Do you believe Lehrmann's version of events that he didn't touch her?
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1753 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Do you believe Lehrmann's version of events that he didn't touch her?
My point is on the basis of the evidence that appears to been presented, if I was in the jury, I could not find him guilty. Unfortunately for Higgins, she didn't report into to a police station or a hospital the morning after to be properly interviewed and importantly tested.
If a person can be charged with rape when all that's known is that two people walked into an office, the law is stuffed in my opinion.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1754 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Working from home, vs working at work.

You know, everyone always looks at the positives/negatives of doing so.  Ultimately its not about where you work, its about having clear KPI's and meeting those.
A lot of this is more about the quality of managers than the where staff are located, there are a lot of very average managers who have been exposed by WFH, but there are a lot of very ordinary staff who have been exposed by WFH as well.

An actuary friend of mine said an almost immediate side effect of WFH has been a massive drop in compo claims, those likely to try it on are also likely to be the first to stay home, and they can't sue themselves! But they have also noticed a strong trend emerging, people rolling up to the office unexpectedly only to having an accident.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"