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Re: General Discussions

Reply #2310 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
I have two security guards and my place, John Browning and Pietro Beretta.

Is Mr Browning about 9mm?
Nah, 12g
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: General Discussions

Reply #2311 –
Whatever personal motives and feelings people may have on this issue, all the studies and data that I can find make it pretty clear that more guns = more violence, more deaths and less safety.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #2312 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Whatever personal motives and feelings people may have on this issue, all the studies and data that I can find make it pretty clear that more guns = more violence, more deaths and less safety.
I think the point was that these louts will one day target the wrong house with the wrong people in it (lets say people of equal or similar vocation) and yes there will be blood but it will be theirs that's spilt. I for one will piss myself laughing. The state of lawlessness in Victoria is a disgrace and something needs to be done. Bail laws need to be revised as matter of urgency for a start as many of these animals are young, repeat offenders in and out of the revolving door justice system we have. Nuffs enuff.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: General Discussions

Reply #2313 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Quote from: Baggers – on


Is Mr Browning about 9mm?
Nah, 12g

Serious.

The Browning 9mm was the first weapon I learnt on in the Navy. Then the SLR17. Then a Remington 700 for Marksman training. But once moving to communications/encryption stuff I had no further use for weaponry. My brother, however (who also served in the Navy) has an impressive safe with serious long guns - all legal of course. Ex military folks often have appropriate training and psych evals to qualify as 'responsible' owners.

But I agree wholeheartedly with Pauly who is 100% right re the availability of guns in the community - more guns, more fatal problems. With a shocking reduction in public safety.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: General Discussions

Reply #2314 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Quote from: PaulP – on
Whatever personal motives and feelings people may have on this issue, all the studies and data that I can find make it pretty clear that more guns = more violence, more deaths and less safety.
I think the point was that these louts will one day target the wrong house with the wrong people in it (lets say people of equal or similar vocation) and yes there will be blood but it will be theirs that's spilt. I for one will piss myself laughing. The state of lawlessness in Victoria is a disgrace and something needs to be done. Bail laws need to be revised as matter of urgency for a start as many of these animals are young, repeat offenders in and out of the revolving door justice system we have. Nuffs enuff.

Personally, I've opted for a couple of European Dobermans. Pussycats with us, not so friendly to uninvited guests!!

The rise in violence in Victoria is alarming. But it's not restricted to our state. It's on the rise nationally and even globally.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: General Discussions

Reply #2315 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Malthouse had intruders come in and threaten him in his house overnight, this has to be stopped. Nuffs enuff. This is what we should all be protesting about every weekend, f a r k  Gaza!!! Lets worry about our own s h i t show here.

I heard Mick on the wireless yesterday morning.

He has shingles and wasn’t sleeping.  He heard a noise in their apartment just after midnight.  He went to investigate, taking a weight training object with him and confronted three men, one with a crowbar and one with a screwdriver.

They retreated down the stairs and all four ended up in the basement.  Mick managed to take the crowbar so it was one vs three but the one had two weapons to one.  The intruders were trying to get out but couldn’t open the door.  Mick got them away from the door, opened it, and allowed them to leave.  As they ran past, the bloke with the screwdriver struck Mick in the chest, causing a small wound.  Although Mick didn’t say so specifically, I got the impression that he was giving them Larry Dooley with the weight training object (he described it as a heavy rubber-covered metal bar that he was given when he was playing for St Kilda) and the crowbar.  Not bad for a 72 year old!

Mick did say that the crooks would have been in real trouble if other residents had been home.

When I did self defence training, our instructor said never pick up a weapon because the crooks may get it and use it against you.  However, I suspect Mick may have been in more trouble if he had been empty handed.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: General Discussions

Reply #2316 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
The rise in violence in Victoria is alarming. But it's not restricted to our state. It's on the rise nationally and even globally.
I suppose until the penalties get heavier it won't change.

The do-gooder rules have just created an opportunity for crooks to leverage weak penalties against kids, often drug addicted teens, and threaten consequences for lagging. The penalties have to harsher so the kids can plea bargain, so the kids can get the opportunity to dob in an organiser. It's the organisers who should be copping the harshest penalties.

The penalties for coercion of a teen or minor should be as heavy as any for attempted murder or similar.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: General Discussions

Reply #2317 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Malthouse had intruders come in and threaten him in his house overnight, this has to be stopped. Nuffs enuff. This is what we should all be protesting about every weekend, f a r k  Gaza!!! Lets worry about our own s h i t show here.

I heard Mick on the wireless yesterday morning.

He has shingles and wasn’t sleeping.  He heard a noise in their apartment just after midnight.  He went to investigate, taking a weight training object with him and confronted three men, one with a crowbar and one with a screwdriver.

They retreated down the stairs and all four ended up in the basement.  Mick managed to take the crowbar so it was one vs three but the one had two weapons to one.  The intruders were trying to get out but couldn’t open the door.  Mick got them away from the door, opened it, and allowed them to leave.  As they ran past, the bloke with the screwdriver struck Mick in the chest, causing a small wound.  Although Mick didn’t say so specifically, I got the impression that he was giving them Larry Dooley with the weight training object (he described it as a heavy rubber-covered metal bar that he was given when he was playing for St Kilda) and the crowbar.  Not bad for a 72 year old!

Mick did say that the crooks would have been in real trouble if other residents had been home.

When I did self defence training, our instructor said never pick up a weapon because the crooks may get it and use it against you.  However, I suspect Mick may have been in more trouble if he had been empty handed.
His  wife is traumatised. I had a friend who had his home invaded, keys taken and car stolen. Whilst they were upstairs and werent confronted, and only woke up when they hear the car driving off, his wife hasnt been the same since (this was years ago). Its utterly abhorrent.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: General Discussions

Reply #2318 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
His  wife is traumatised. I had a friend who had his home invaded, keys taken and car stolen. Whilst they were upstairs and werent confronted, and only woke up when they hear the car driving off, his wife hasnt been the same since (this was years ago). Its utterly abhorrent.

According to Mick, Nanette was traumatised when she saw the three crooks running away and no sign of Mick.  She assumed the worst, as you would.

The maximum penalty for home invasion/aggravated burglary is 25 years.  Sentencing rules mean that is rarely applied and actual sentences imposed are closer to a "standard sentence" and are usually well below the maximum penalty.  There are complex arguments about sentencing and sentencing guidelines but, when a particular type of crime traumatises the victims and causes general anxiety in the community, I think that the guidelines need to be adjusted, even if only on a temporary basis.  In other words, make the defence put forward a case to reduce their client's sentence down to a minimum ten years.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: General Discussions

Reply #2319 –
How do you self destruct when you're already rock bottom?
Ask the Liberal party. ::)

Re: General Discussions

Reply #2320 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Quote from: DJC – on


I heard Mick on the wireless yesterday morning.

He has shingles and wasn’t sleeping.  He heard a noise in their apartment just after midnight.  He went to investigate, taking a weight training object with him and confronted three men, one with a crowbar and one with a screwdriver.

They retreated down the stairs and all four ended up in the basement.  Mick managed to take the crowbar so it was one vs three but the one had two weapons to one.  The intruders were trying to get out but couldn’t open the door.  Mick got them away from the door, opened it, and allowed them to leave.  As they ran past, the bloke with the screwdriver struck Mick in the chest, causing a small wound.  Although Mick didn’t say so specifically, I got the impression that he was giving them Larry Dooley with the weight training object (he described it as a heavy rubber-covered metal bar that he was given when he was playing for St Kilda) and the crowbar.  Not bad for a 72 year old!

Mick did say that the crooks would have been in real trouble if other residents had been home.

When I did self defence training, our instructor said never pick up a weapon because the crooks may get it and use it against you.  However, I suspect Mick may have been in more trouble if he had been empty handed.
His  wife is traumatised. I had a friend who had his home invaded, keys taken and car stolen. Whilst they were upstairs and werent confronted, and only woke up when they hear the car driving off, his wife hasnt been the same since (this was years ago). Its utterly abhorrent.

I really feel for your friend's wife, and Nanette. The feeling of such horrendous violation, resulting in trauma, aint easy to recover from. Every human being has the right to feel safe in their home and place of work, especially.

There is an alarming decay in many global cultures and states. With international wars (Ukraine/Gaza etc.) being almost normalised and Neo-Nazis rearing their sinister heads, again... hot on the heals of the severe isolation experienced by many folks during Covid at it's height, never has there been a greater need for real leadership. And when we look around at many leaders of countries and states... Oh dear.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: General Discussions

Reply #2321 –
People say its decay, but the reality is we have lived with a false sense of security for a long time and now we have way more news about all the drama unfolding.  Add some genuinely unhinged behaviour, and this the result.

I suspect most people were living in their bubble not realising that all these things were occurring.  One of the boys I went to school with in mount waverley.  His mum was shot.  Quite by accident.  She died.  The bullet came through their dining room, when the people next door were the ones being killed.  She was just collateral damage.  These things often didnt hit the news back in the day.  They do now.

The gangs were around.  My brother and his mates were chased by a man with a machete back in the 90's in Box Hill. 

I once saw someone get stabbed at the beach in Chelsea.  Not sure why it happened, or why it was done. 

Dads panel van got pinched from my Grandparents house in burwood east back in the early 90's.  Was the end of his TV repair business as he couldnt stump up the cash to replace all his lost equipment. 

My grandmother was gardening out the back of her house one day (same house).  A man snuck into the house and locked the back door on her.  She was trying to get in, and figured she accidentally locked herself out.  They had a spare key hidden in the garage near the front of the house so she went around and grabbed the key and let herself back in.  They kept cash on hand back then.  The thieve must have heard her coming and unlocking the door.  They pinched the loose cash and some jewelery and then fled out the back.  She found the back door wide open, and my grandfather confirmed money was missing. 

When I was on my P's my car was stolen from out the front of the house (Burwood).  I then replaced it with another car.  It got broken into twice and the radio was stolen twice.  They smashed up the center console pretty good.  was it an expensive stero?  If you count a few hundred dollars on a pioneer CD player as expensive then it was but it wasnt anything special.

This is my anecdotal stuff.  Either I am disproportionately unlucky, or this is common and you just dont hear about it all.  Sure physical violence wasnt much of what I have listed above but you are closer to running into trouble disturbing thieves than not.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: General Discussions

Reply #2322 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
People say its decay, but the reality is we have lived with a false sense of security for a long time and now we have way more news about all the drama unfolding.  Add some genuinely unhinged behaviour, and this the result.

I suspect most people were living in their bubble not realising that all these things were occurring.  One of the boys I went to school with in mount waverley.  His mum was shot.  Quite by accident.  She died.  The bullet came through their dining room, when the people next door were the ones being killed.  She was just collateral damage.  These things often didnt hit the news back in the day.  They do now.

The gangs were around.  My brother and his mates were chased by a man with a machete back in the 90's in Box Hill. 

I once saw someone get stabbed at the beach in Chelsea.  Not sure why it happened, or why it was done. 

Dads panel van got pinched from my Grandparents house in burwood east back in the early 90's.  Was the end of his TV repair business as he couldnt stump up the cash to replace all his lost equipment. 

My grandmother was gardening out the back of her house one day (same house).  A man snuck into the house and locked the back door on her.  She was trying to get in, and figured she accidentally locked herself out.  They had a spare key hidden in the garage near the front of the house so she went around and grabbed the key and let herself back in.  They kept cash on hand back then.  The thieve must have heard her coming and unlocking the door.  They pinched the loose cash and some jewelery and then fled out the back.  She found the back door wide open, and my grandfather confirmed money was missing. 

When I was on my P's my car was stolen from out the front of the house (Burwood).  I then replaced it with another car.  It got broken into twice and the radio was stolen twice.  They smashed up the center console pretty good.  was it an expensive stero?  If you count a few hundred dollars on a pioneer CD player as expensive then it was but it wasnt anything special.

This is my anecdotal stuff.  Either I am disproportionately unlucky, or this is common and you just dont hear about it all.  Sure physical violence wasnt much of what I have listed above but you are closer to running into trouble disturbing thieves than not.

I think there's an element of truth in what you say, Thry.
I haven't had a look but I suspect the number of young offenders in detention are probably lower than they were when I started 50 years ago.
There were some horrific crimes perpetrated by gangs of youth back in the 70s and 80s.

What is different is that there was no social media where kids could post their exploits.
That use of media also adds to the 'prestige' and notoriety of the offender
With community Facebook pages in full swing crimes like assaults, break and enters and car theft are often posted shortly after they happened, followed by a heap of supportive responses declaring "society is out of control."
A kid walking out of Woolies without paying becomes a major incident and generates a hundred condemning repsonses.

Crimes are often reported in real time, rather than a delay for the local newspaper.
A lot of the concern is generated by proximity.
If it happens in a suburb close to you it becomes a worry, especially if it's unusual for that area.

That's not to say there aren't issues of real concern but they need to be looked at with a wider lens to identify significant problems,trends and solutions.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #2323 –
Oh I should add, my dad when he was a new Australian was working as a Taxi driver and putting himself through school.  One day he drove the wrong client home.  Mum told me a story about him being made black and blue after an altercation.  Beat him up and stole his takings.  He emigrated as a 16 year old, and was the last of his siblings to arrive.  He drove a taxi from age about 18 to 21 I think.   5 came here, 4 stayed back in Greece with the parents so they had to fend for themselves.  Theft, and thuggery.  aggression towards migrants.  It is the world we live in.  Not sure what came of it, but fair to say that dad stopped driving taxis as soon as he finished his schooling. 

There is a hard edge to the world out there.  Its just whether or not you slam into it that makes the difference.  Thats why when I hear rubbish like words are violence, I think to myself, be thankful that you dont encounter real violence and thuggery.  You would have genuine trauma rather than fake drama.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: General Discussions

Reply #2324 –
I don’t think that your experiences are unusual Thry.  Perhaps the main difference between then and now is mainstream and social media coverage.

I grew up with an older brother in the police force and pretty well had a running commentary on the violence and crime that was commonplace in 20th century Melbourne and Victoria.

Your post reminded me of some of my schoolmates in the 1960s.  While we were trying to attract females at the local dances, they were doing “burgs”.  They would target houses where they thought the owners were away, remove tiles from the roof, get into the house through the manhole, and ransack the house.  I was invited to join the gang but declined, mainly because of fear of what my brother would do to me if he found out.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball