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Topic: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide (Read 21858 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #60 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
I disagree.

We had that last year and what did it give us?

I reckon we are better off this way.
We had a good year, but complacency cost us a spot in the finals. This is what happens when you slack off. We need a big off-season to take the next step.

We need the fire in the belly. We need the hurt. We need to realise its not just going to happen for us.
A good, happy ending can mask that.

We'll agree to disagree on some points and not others.
I feel less confident about the future of this side going into the 2020 off-season than I did going into the 2019 off-season.
The ending we need (ed) to see is pressure, commitment and unity
That's not masking a problem.
That's showing  we're advancing.

I don't think what we've witnessed over the last few weeks is complacency.
I think it was more a dropping of the bundle.
A decline into a rabble.
Players playing for themselves and not as a unit
To my mind  the players had had enough of this season and just wanted to get it done and dusted.
Do you really think they were 'hurting' there this afternoon.
Smiling, laughing, sharing good times with former team-mates. (not just Gibbs)
What I saw was more likely 'relief' that our  finals chances were gone and they could go home soon.

On your second point I totally agree. We need a big off-season. A harsh, ,tough off -season.
Reduction in list sizes may be more dramatic than we assume...it may be that to add draft and trades into the side a much greater number  of players are on the chopping block.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #62 –
Lots of hard work to do and injecting more talent. Some of these guys can’t be carried. Some will eventually cut it, but some are showing signs they never will.
This digital world is too much for us insects to understand.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #63 –
Baggers .... it's thoughts such as those that are far more direct and on point than we're unlikely to hear in most other places.  That was one godawful performance.  

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #64 –
Still Pissed off with that display.

Reckon they decided a few games ago finals was out of the equation and played accordingly - I remember Cripps’ post Sydney game interview and he said how they’re learning the hard way and the commentator Made a comment about how mathematically possible
It was to still make Finals, and Cripps said more along the lines of its good to learn for next season - not showing any excitement or closeness to a finals spot
At all.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #65 –
Don't know where to start. Awful performance across the board.   Being beaten by a better side I can handle (just)  but being beaten by a lack of effort and application is unacceptable.

And dumb ass selections and rubbish coaching... We can't go forwards until we get this stuff sorted.  Ball movement into our F50 is shambolic. And has been so forever. Why? Why is this coach still in a job?

We just don't have enough blokes that turn up to play each week,  let alone four quarters within a given game.  As epitomised by the likes of Cunningham.  I know it's unfair to single a bloke out, but he's picked yet again,  he runs around and shows flashes,  and is invisible for 98% of the game.   Enough.  

And senior players have to do their jobs and be reliable.   Plowman and captain chaos have played long enough to know that they are making too many dumb decisions too often,  and those errors cost goals. Wise up and do the basics or F off.

We have so many holes in our list I don't know where to start, but some blokes that can more the ball forwards from D50 reliably would be a great help. 
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #66 –
Quote from: Macca37 – on
As well as addressing the usual issues - lack of ability, abysmal kicking skills, etc, surely we need to find out what is causing these dreadful first halves of football.

It's like watching somebody who has had a drug overdose being given an antidote injection and suddenly spring to their feet.

We can't go into 2021 season fearing a repeat of this season's many bad first half starts.  Is Teague responsible?  The coaching staff in general?  Do we need to employ sports psychologists?





To address your final question, we have one.....
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/587753/inside-the-mind-a-psychological-look-into-isolation
Coming together is the beginning.
Keeping together is progress.
Working together is success.
Henry Ford.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #67 –
Disappointing that we couldn't get a win against a very poor side and like so many others on this forum, I don't think the players care enough about the result.

Betts' time has come and I'd also be exiting Marc Murphy who has been a great servant, but is now too reactive, not able to tackle as he used to and is pushed off the ball far too easily. Simpson looks like he could go on or another year.

I'd also be exploring trades for two of Jones, Casboult & McGovern, who will all have some trade currency for those lacking genuine key position players. Jones and Casboult's best is very good but if we're honest they make far too many errors at critical times, whilst McGovern is skilled but just doesnt seems prepared to do the work required at AFL level.  SPS, Dow & Cunningham are in a similar boat, but I hold hope that they could yet emerge as consistent midfielders.

On the positive side, the form of Weitering and Walsh, the return from injury by Docherty and the emergence of TDK and Fisher in a new role have been highlights, whilst all of Williamson, Kennedy, Gibbons, Setterfield, Pittonet have improved and we know that we have some talent to come into the side through C Curnow, Kemp, Honey & Philp.

Could be another large turnover of our list to allow us to recruit a couple of seasoned mids & a fast defender or two.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #68 –
Today really typified us a club. Playing the bottom team with a win needed to keep our finals hopes alive.

Cripps is not beyond criticism to me. He has been severely underperforming who again had done SFA against a weak midfield. He finally gets a chance to make a difference and as usual sprays an easy set shot in front then takes it on and kicks a beautiful running goal. He then turns to crowd and gives a gesture with his arms out as if to suggest ‘how good am I’. He then jogs back to the centre with a cheeky grin on his face tapping teammates on his way thru. Now I’m not being critical for showing some inspiration but FMD he is our captain had done nothing to that point just missed an easy goal all while we are playing for a spot in the finals and we at that point we’re still 5 f***ing goals down with only 1 and 1/2 quarter remaining!! I remember thinking how does this look to the kids in the team. Do one cameo and then behave like I’m the man.

Then there was the farce after losing the game, wtf did we need to chair off Gibbs.  Hugging and laughing after the game was already too much but chair him off. Why? He is the enemy he is an ‘opponent’ yes an ‘opponent’ and we chair him off and then swap jumpers with him.

Didn’t he leave us after all and even recall comments he made bagging us when things were going better in his new home. And yet we are kicked out of the finals race against the bottom team and as his opposition we chair the bloke off. Disgusting.

We have no one with any real heart, any real desire to do everything and anything to succeed. We are a bunch of nice blokes and led by a coach with the same character. Us fans hurt more then the players and I tell ya what they are not getting my hard earned next year. They again got it this year but not a chance that’s happening again.
 

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #69 –
We are a rabble who do not want to do the hard work & fight.

We also have a gaggle of players who can't kick, handball, mark or tackle.

We are a joke and an embarrassment !!
"The Other Teams Can Rot In Hell"

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #70 –
Quote from: shawny – on
Today really typified us a club. Playing the bottom team with a win needed to keep our finals hopes alive.

Cripps is not beyond criticism to me. He has been severely underperforming who again had done SFA against a weak midfield. He finally gets a chance to make a difference and as usual sprays an easy set shot in front then takes it on and kicks a beautiful running goal. He then turns to crowd and gives a gesture with his arms out as if to suggest ‘how good am I’. He then jogs back to the centre with a cheeky grin on his face tapping teammates on his way thru. Now I’m not being critical for showing some inspiration but FMD he is our captain had done nothing to that point just missed an easy goal all while we are playing for a spot in the finals and we at that point we’re still 5 f***ing goals down with only 1 and 1/2 quarter remaining!! I remember thinking how does this look to the kids in the team. Do one cameo and then behave like I’m the man.

Then there was the farce after losing the game, wtf did we need to chair off Gibbs.  Hugging and laughing after the game was already too much but chair him off. Why? He is the enemy he is an ‘opponent’ yes an ‘opponent’ and we chair him off and then swap jumpers with him.

Didn’t he leave us after all and even recall comments he made bagging us when things were going better in his new home. And yet we are kicked out of the finals race against the bottom team and as his opposition we chair the bloke off. Disgusting.

We have no one with any real heart, any real desire to do everything and anything to succeed. We are a bunch of nice blokes and led by a coach with the same character. Us fans hurt more then the players and I tell ya what they are not getting my hard earned next year. They again got it this year but not a chance that’s happening again.

Good onya Shawny, I thought it was just me that got the craps with Cripps showboating after that goal !!

I've had enough of the guy, I'm calling for him to be traded.
"The Other Teams Can Rot In Hell"

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #71 –
Quote from: laj – on
We lacked that connect between mids and forward coaches, which Teague has lamented all year. It was the same when Teague was forward coach. Being able to train only with 8 at a times, and with a lot less sessions certainly hasn't helped. You don't even get the chance to try to practice connecting.

Other clubs, all other clubs have had the same handicap, so that excuse or justification doesn't wash.

Time to take off the rose coloured glasses.

And to respond to another couple of your points, Tiggers came good because 1. Balme, 2. A creative 360 degree variant around heroes and Hardwick being removed from some areas and told to focus on coaching only. That session changed the culture, it was brilliant and the concept bound the blokes together in a short period of intense stuff and they've not looked back. Pussycats had a brutal 360 feedback course with Leading Teams and never looked back after that...

For us to toughen up there needs be a conscious exercise of strong confrontation / 360 feedback. Holy crap, we have a culture where players whine about a coach and get him the bullet - been doing it for years. Softness is ingrained, leave everything up to the superstars is ingrained. Relying on a 'tipping point' is living on 'someday isle.' We already have an ingrained tipping point... it come when opponents hit us with sustained pressure - we fold, we go to water, we crap ourselves.

We need to address these issues honestly and even brutally, that'll thin out a few non-hackers, and focus on deep cultural/psychological change. What do we stand for? What is our brand? How does the footy world see us? Chokers, that how we are viewed... big time chokers.

Holy mackerel did you see during the lockdown and no games the senior coach and one of the captains of the club spend a half hour on Zoom or Skype going through the playing list and taking the piss out of most players? I couldn't believe what I was watching.

Then, today (and there are plenty of other examples from the season) too many of our blokes are laughing and joking with opponents after an embarrassing loss. Seems the only people who hurt when we embarrass ourselves is the members and supporters. Too many players don't seem to give a crap... bar Walsh, do you see him after a loss - he hurts, hates losing, there are a few others but not enough. As I said, it is ingrained in our culture, losing... trying for a while... dropping our bundle when heat is applied... This will not change by expecting natural progression to take care of everything. It won't. Choking needs important and strong intervention.

There is nothing ruthless about our club. We're nice, we're talented, and we'll put up a fight... for a while, then... we'll choke.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #72 –
I think I predicted we finish 12th. From that perspective, my expectations were met.

What I found most disappointing and downright frustrating was the tease. The repeated performances showing we can match it with the best. This sells hope. Only to be followed by an abysmal performance, either within or between games. The inconsistencies are difficult to reconcile. That is until you look at the big picture.

I believe we're a better side than recent years. We have most of the players, although some are still developing. Some are developing aspects of their game to address weaknesses. Some simply aren't good enough.

We didn't have the home state advantage of several club's. Unfortunately Melbourne's CV status may have been an additional stressor for all VIC club's. Not excuses but real disproportionate factors likely to have an impact. I'm very pleased with the way our boys held up and hope Stocker returns in good health. This type of schedule certainly favors the seasoned sides.

I agree we should make a few list changes. I have no idea about the coaching staff though. Our injury list hasn't improved. MC have delivered head scratching selections. Our mindset seems to be a regular problem in terms of not showing up for 1 or 2 quarters.

Those are areas where attention is required IMO.  We certainly don't follow the 'you start the way you finish the last game'. On the contrary. I suspect mental toughness issues may be at play.

All is not lost, but we have a lot of work ahead of 2021.
Coming together is the beginning.
Keeping together is progress.
Working together is success.
Henry Ford.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #73 –
Quote from: LordLucifer – on
Good onya Shawny, I thought it was just me that got the craps with Cripps showboating after that goal !!

I've had enough of the guy, I'm calling for him to be traded.


Was very odd behaviour and one that tells you the mindset on the captain.
To do that when you 5 goals down really makes you wonder if he is the right man for the captaincy imo. Not just saying this off one game but reckon Weitering would be a good choice. Is a solid regular performer and a team first player.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #74 –
Setterfield has improved but is only a 15 pos per game midfielder.

Cripps has had a poor year.

Ed is limited.

Walsh would have to go close in the B&F (weiters?) but has been out on the wing.

Murphy is a bit past it.

Our mids aren't great. We have needed 2 more starting mids for the last 10 years. Can't understand why every other club can bring them in except us.