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Topic: Pre Game Prognostications: AFL 2020 Rd 18: Carlton vs Brisbane (Read 20309 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Pre Game Prognostications: AFL 2020 Rd 18: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #45 –
Quote from: shawny – on
Rumour on socials is Murphy won’t play.

Probably done his shoulder chairing Gibbs off. 🙄

He said in a interview he is disappointed he can't play in Simmo's last game.

Re: Pre Game Prognostications: AFL 2020 Rd 18: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #46 –
Quote from: Pratty – on
It's not about Bolton, anymore. I too think the young guys' confidence is shot from the early days. Times have changed. 18 months older is a big difference in maturity.

If we're not going to play these younger guys in bigger roles, then why do we still have them on our list and why would we keep them past tomorrow's final game?

I think the next step for Teague now is to balance the winning with exposing some younger guys into bigger roles with more responsibility. I don't say that for the sake of it. We're not winning games of footy so think that's our cue to change it up a bit. I'm disappointed Teague hasn't. He's stayed loyal to the structure and senior players. That's ok to a degree. His next challenge is to get more our of the fringe types.

This idea that the confidence of Dow, O'Brien etc. is shot from the early days is dubious IMO. Nobody expected Dow to go h2h with Dangerfield etc. and come away with the points. He and the others were clearly there to learn, and the ethos was to have all the kids play and grow together. Also notwithstanding the expected human behavior that we tend to feel better about ourselves when we are included rather than excluded. Any loss of confidence is likely to be from Dow, OBrien etc twiddling their thumbs for a year not getting games rather than anything that came before. The players and coaches are in constant dialogue, the players have mouths, the leadership group and coaches have ears, they have eyes - there are numerous ways in which a loss of confidence in a youngster could be detected and addressed.

IMO, the last 15 or 16 months is basically coitus interruptus, and the club has potentially caused itself a few headaches. This is a season which will not be taken seriously when history is written. It would have been the perfect season to play kids en masse. Instead, the club decided that short term wins were what is needed, and selling memberships to folks who couldn't really use them was the go, so Liddle could show he was good at boosting revenue. Well, that's fine -  mission accomplished. What happens now ? The club is expected to play finals next season, and having at least two if not more oldies depart, we will be forced to play kids who are essentially at the same level of football development they were last year. The club cannot have its cake and eat it too. If you want wins, you can't play kids en masse, and if you want development, you have to sacrifice a few wins, which in a nothing season, would have been a better option.

There is no certainty that Dow O'Brien and all the rest have what it takes - playing them in one or two games proves nothing. It should hardly surprise that they showed little when given a recall. Finding out next season whether they have it or not is almost too late IMO.

Re: Pre Game Prognostications: AFL 2020 Rd 18: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #47 –
Quote from: Pratty – on
It's not about Bolton, anymore. I too think the young guys' confidence is shot from the early days. Times have changed. 18 months older is a big difference in maturity.

If we're not going to play these younger guys in bigger roles, then why do we still have them on our list and why would we keep them past tomorrow's final game?

I think the next step for Teague now is to balance the winning with exposing some younger guys into bigger roles with more responsibility. I don't say that for the sake of it. We're not winning games of footy so think that's our cue to change it up a bit. I'm disappointed Teague hasn't. He's stayed loyal to the structure and senior players. That's ok to a degree. His next challenge is to get more our of the fringe types.

Its a hard balance, isnt it? 

Play all the kids in the guts, all the time, and you get what happenned to Bolton - lose games, kids get smashed and lose confidence, no one wins. 

Play the senior guys in the guts, and the kids dont get an exposure - you see Cunners getting frostbite sitting on a flank for games on end, you see youngsters come in and play on a flank or in a pocket (where they havent played in the 2s) and they fail, along with not getting any exposure to the heat and a chance to learn and develop

Of course, the good sides make it look easy.  We just need to get that balance right

Re: Pre Game Prognostications: AFL 2020 Rd 18: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #48 –
Quote from: townsendcalling – on
Again, they reiterated on the radio today that the HUB / restricted training was a clear advantage to older, more established lists like Richmond, Geelong, West Coast etc who had successful systems in place that had been executed prior to lockdown.  Our backline held up because Jones, Weitering, Plowman and Simmo have had time together......our forward line hasn't had that continuity, and it shows!!!  That's where the improvement will come in 2021.

Good point re Backline standing up as they are more senior/spent more time together

This thinking makes sense - hope it is true and we do see improvements from the fwd line, and from the kids in general

Re: Pre Game Prognostications: AFL 2020 Rd 18: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #49 –
The clubs with depth are the ones who have handled the covid shortbreak game season well...Richmond are the classic example of being able to swing in like for like players, rest players and now we are seeing the likes of Edwards, Astbury returning they only look stronger. Even with Soldo gone they have a readymade quality replacement in Nankervis to take over.
We dont have the depth of talent and dont even have a designated best 22, you get best systems when you get depth and only then do you have successful systems because more players are capable of playing the roles in that system.
If we had lost our Astbury in Weitering and our Edwards in Martin for any length of time we would have been hammered most weeks as we dont have the cover...

Re: Pre Game Prognostications: AFL 2020 Rd 18: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #50 –
The shame of it all is that we have had the same number of drafts to sort this out and match them...
"...that's the thing about opinion - you don't have to know anything to have one..."  Andre Agassi commenting on Pat Cash 2004
"...the less you know - the more you believe..." - Bono 2006

Re: Pre Game Prognostications: AFL 2020 Rd 18: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #51 –
Quote from: Wet Willie – on
The shame of it all is that we have had the same number of drafts to sort this out and match them...
Richmond were 9thmond for a long time and only got it together when they had the trinity draft of Caddy, Prestia, Nankervis and
a new bold game plan where they went with multiple pressure small forwards and that was out of necessity as they didnt have another key forward of note to support Reiwoldt. They had that rock solid rebounding defense though to underpin the new game plan and the players they recruited were in the main decently skilled and capable contested players even the smaller lighter framed ones. Dusty Martin went to a new level as a catalyst player and Hardwick now looks like the next Clarko....but it all took time and planning.

Re: Pre Game Prognostications: AFL 2020 Rd 18: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #52 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
The clubs with depth are the ones who have handled the covid shortbreak game season well...Richmond are the classic example of being able to swing in like for like players, rest players and now we are seeing the likes of Edwards, Astbury returning they only look stronger. Even with Soldo gone they have a readymade quality replacement in Nankervis to take over.
We dont have the depth of talent and dont even have a designated best 22, you get best systems when you get depth and only then do you have successful systems because more players are capable of playing the roles in that system.
If we had lost our Astbury in Weitering and our Edwards in Martin for any length of time we would have been hammered most weeks as we dont have the cover...

We forget though....
we've been without (what was) our #1 ruckman all year - Kreuzer.
we've been without our #1 key forward all year - Curnow
we lost a guaranteed starter for the entire year - Newman

There are others.

But for those 3, we covered them brilliantly.
Pittonet and TDK both stepped up and forced Kreuzers retirement.
We've had our struggles up forward but Harry and Casboult have held down our key roles and dominated games (and gone missing in others)
Newman (and Daisy's delisting) was covered by Simmo, Doc and the (re)emergence of Willo.

The difference between us and tigers besides overall depth is.....we didn't get any of those players back!

Re: Pre Game Prognostications: AFL 2020 Rd 18: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #53 –
Quote from: Milhanna13 – on
Its a hard balance, isnt it? 

Play all the kids in the guts, all the time, and you get what happenned to Bolton - lose games, kids get smashed and lose confidence, no one wins. 

Play the senior guys in the guts, and the kids dont get an exposure - you see Cunners getting frostbite sitting on a flank for games on end, you see youngsters come in and play on a flank or in a pocket (where they havent played in the 2s) and they fail, along with not getting any exposure to the heat and a chance to learn and develop

Of course, the good sides make it look easy.  We just need to get that balance right

Yep it's definitely a balancing act for sure. Dow has had knee issues this season anyway. 2021 is his time after a hopefully strong preseason like the rest of the list.

If we're after Jack Graham, Zach Merrett and Zac Williams (to play midfield) I'm all for it for sure but wonder of the fate of the younger group of mids we have.

Re: Pre Game Prognostications: AFL 2020 Rd 18: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #54 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
We forget though....
we've been without (what was) our #1 ruckman all year - Kreuzer.
we've been without our #1 key forward all year - Curnow
we lost a guaranteed starter for the entire year - Newman

There are others.

But for those 3, we covered them brilliantly.
Pittonet and TDK both stepped up and forced Kreuzers retirement.
We've had our struggles up forward but Harry and Casboult have held down our key roles and dominated games (and gone missing in others)
Newman (and Daisy's delisting) was covered by Simmo, Doc and the (re)emergence of Willo.

The difference between us and tigers besides overall depth is.....we didn't get any of those players back!

Whilst others celebrate it, I shudder at the thought of Jones, Newman and Plowman in our defence at the one time. If we go into 2021 thinking that’s a good idea get ready for a finish no higher than 14th.

Re: Pre Game Prognostications: AFL 2020 Rd 18: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #55 –
If we can significantly improve our midfield and get our fwd set up better organised then a huge amount of pressure will come off our defence.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Pre Game Prognostications: AFL 2020 Rd 18: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #56 –
Ins: Matthew Kennedy, Jack Martin, Marc Pittonet, Cameron Polson
Outs: Sam Docherty (calf), Zac Fisher (shoulder), Will Setterfield (calf), Lochie O'Brien

Re: Pre Game Prognostications: AFL 2020 Rd 18: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #57 –
Unbelievable... Cuningham & McGovern keep their places while there are a couple of emergencies who will at least have a red hot crack and do their best to play 4 qtrs. Rewarding mediocrity, again.

McGovern, Casboult, Pittonet, McKay and TDK doing forward line and rucking duties! Murphy under and injury cloud along with Crippa. Good to see Martin return and Kennedy given another chance... coupla good tacklers with a bit of snarl.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Pre Game Prognostications: AFL 2020 Rd 18: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #58 –
Don't see the point in playing the Pitt, but the other 3 inclusions are pretty much, meh, whatever.

Re: Pre Game Prognostications: AFL 2020 Rd 18: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #59 –
Quote from: rocky – on
Don't see the point in playing the Pitt, but the other 3 inclusions are pretty much, meh, whatever.
Farewell game for Polson.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership