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Poll

Would you vote for Dan Andrews if there was a election this weekend?

Yes
[ 8 ] (34.8%)
No - I would vote Liberal
[ 7 ] (30.4%)
No - I would vote Green
[ 0 ] (0%)
No - I would vote for another, but not Dan
[ 2 ] (8.7%)
Undecided
[ 6 ] (26.1%)

Total Members Voted: 23

Voting closed: September 28, 2020, 10:10:10 AM

Topic: Who would you vote for in a State Election if held this weekend 28/09 (Read 719 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Who would you vote for in a State Election if held this weekend 28/09

Reply #17
No comment. I am done with Andrews.
This digital world is too much for us insects to understand.

Re: Who would you vote for in a State Election if held this weekend 28/09

Reply #18
He's the analogy that keeps running around in my head. An arsonist lites a fire then turns up to put the fire out and seemingly saves the day. He 's still an arsonist.

Sums it up nicely. The guy's political career ended with the second wave. Whether he wants to accept it or not is another thing.

Dan somehow reminds me of every Essendon supporter I've ever spoken to who still denies any wrongdoing by the club over the "supplements" saga.

The choice of leaders though..... urgh! The Lib loser with the most punchable face I've ever seen (not that I'm advocating violence)?

Re: Who would you vote for in a State Election if held this weekend 28/09

Reply #19
Sums it up nicely. The guy's political career ended with the second wave. Whether he wants to accept it or not is another thing.

Dan somehow reminds me of every Essendon supporter I've ever spoken to who still denies any wrongdoing by the club over the "supplements" saga.

The choice of leaders though..... urgh! The Lib loser with the most punchable face I've ever seen (not that I'm advocating violence)?
As I said jeza, dig a big hole, push em all into it, back fill it and start again. Disillusionment is un understatement.
2017 - 16th
2018 - Wooden Spoon
2019 - 16th
2020 - dare to dream?
2021 - Pi$$ or get off the pot

Re: Who would you vote for in a State Election if held this weekend 28/09

Reply #20
As I said jeza, dig a big hole, push em all into it, back fill it and start again. Disillusionment is un understatement.

It's like that episode of Southpark where Cartman was running for class president on the platform of: well you have the choice between a douchebag and a turd sandwich anyway - so you might as well choose me.

Re: Who would you vote for in a State Election if held this weekend 28/09

Reply #21
It all depends on perspective.  As for the previously quoted analogy, arsonists start fires knowing full well they will create damage. 
COVID has caught most of the world off-guard. 

No doubt Andrews et al screwed up on the hotel quarantine thing (NSW Gov was damn close with Ruby Princess....), but they're certainly not alone in COVID screw-ups across the globe. 

But instead of swanning off with his fat-cat pollie pension like most would do, Andrews has fronted up to the media every single day since and stared the naysayers in the face.  Whichever way you look at it, that shows some backbone, which is something sadly lacking in most of our 'leaders'.

If Andrews had gone (like many suggested) when it went pear-shaped, I have no doubt we would be royally f***ed by now. 

Let's deal with the problem at hand, and worry about the fallout later.
This is now the longest premiership drought in the history of the Carlton Football Club - more evidence of climate change?

Re: Who would you vote for in a State Election if held this weekend 28/09

Reply #22
It all depends on perspective.  As for the previously quoted analogy, arsonists start fires knowing full well they will create damage. 
COVID has caught most of the world off-guard. 

No doubt Andrews et al screwed up on the hotel quarantine thing (NSW Gov was damn close with Ruby Princess....), but they're certainly not alone in COVID screw-ups across the globe. 

But instead of swanning off with his fat-cat pollie pension like most would do, Andrews has fronted up to the media every single day since and stared the naysayers in the face.  Whichever way you look at it, that shows some backbone, which is something sadly lacking in most of our 'leaders'.

If Andrews had gone (like many suggested) when it went pear-shaped, I have no doubt we would be royally f***ed by now. 

Let's deal with the problem at hand, and worry about the fallout later.
x2.

Do you see the opposition? how about Tim Smith, he seems like a real go getting winner/f*ckwit.

So who else with the Labor party then? or the Greens? Maybe an independent?

The calling of the resignation/sacking/voting out of Andrews to me is a very emotional response at a situation where you want to apportion blame.  It could happen anywhere and it has overseas. 

Put aside use of security guards - every hotel quarantine has done the same.  I would like to know why it took so long to work out how far the spread got without it being detected until it had gone too far.  Is it Andrews' fault that a dept/depts in his ministry f*cked up with that?  Should he be asking that question x daily 'have you made sure you're contact tracing correctly?'  People/positions/depts are definitely accountable for that, but it's simplistic to go to the top to direct the blame; because let's face it, you most likely didn't think much of Dan anyway.

If that's the case, can we expect the resignation of Gladys for the Ruby Princess farce or Scumo for the Aged Care deaths - when the Feds were told in March how to safeguard aged care after the initial outbreak in the NSW aged care centre? to which, they did absolutely zero?

Re: Who would you vote for in a State Election if held this weekend 28/09

Reply #23
If Andrews had gone (like many suggested) when it went pear-shaped, I have no doubt we would be royally f***ed by now. 
Yes, it's a huge assumption that things will or won't be better, which is why I've argued for the devil you know.

Same applies to the changing of the security firms, that is more about punishing them than it is about making the situation better.

You could easily argue it's even making things worse, because a lot of the experienced gain from mistakes is removed when you install a fresh crew, the departing contract holders have no obligation to share the acquired knowledge! This is often seen in industry, when wages get too high the management or board do a slash and burn of staff and wages, replacing high cost embedded knowledge and experience with low cost learners working off the documentation, the assumption being each time you go through this process the learning phase gets smaller due to the retained knowledge. But it is a big if, and in my experience it is a 50/50 proposition with usually the biggest winners being some executive or board member getting a bonus for reducing costs, with very little benefit to the organisation.

I think the very best solution is to lock in all the gained experience and knowledge with an increased level of over-sight and governance.

Throwing the baby out with the bath-water just gives the people making the errors an easy way out, they may even be hoping that is what happens to them rather than being held accountable!

If mum growls at the child for spilling the cocoa powder, then cleans it up for them after the child walks away red-faced, the child never learns a lesson in the same way they would do if they had to stay and clean up their own mess! They always have to be made to fix up their mess, at least make an attempt even if they do a sub-standard job, because the result can always be touched up later.
The Force Awakens!

Re: Who would you vote for in a State Election if held this weekend 28/09

Reply #24
x2.

Do you see the opposition? how about Tim Smith, he seems like a real go getting winner/f*ckwit.

So who else with the Labor party then? or the Greens? Maybe an independent?

The calling of the resignation/sacking/voting out of Andrews to me is a very emotional response at a situation where you want to apportion blame.  It could happen anywhere and it has overseas. 

Put aside use of security guards - every hotel quarantine has done the same.  I would like to know why it took so long to work out how far the spread got without it being detected until it had gone too far.  Is it Andrews' fault that a dept/depts in his ministry f*cked up with that?  Should he be asking that question x daily 'have you made sure you're contact tracing correctly?'  People/positions/depts are definitely accountable for that, but it's simplistic to go to the top to direct the blame; because let's face it, you most likely didn't think much of Dan anyway.

If that's the case, can we expect the resignation of Gladys for the Ruby Princess farce or Scumo for the Aged Care deaths - when the Feds were told in March how to safeguard aged care after the initial outbreak in the NSW aged care centre? to which, they did absolutely zero?

This isn't an emotional response. This was a very public test of the competence of Daniel Andrews and he's been shown to be incompetent at every step of the way. It seems really bizarre to lump all of that together and write it off as an "emotional" response.

He should have stepped aside and let Jacinta Allan or someone take over, remove those responsible and formulate a plan for safely reopening in a surgical-precision type way that protects the high risk areas and reopens the economy as quickly as possible.

What are we getting from Dan? Lock everyone at home, mandatory masks everywhere and no sophisticated approach to protecting us from meat packing plant workers, returned travellers, high level protections for carers, etc. and a massive focus on the aged care facilities.

Wear a mask and stay home for months cos that works. We know it works but it also devastates the state.

Dan is just not competent enough to manage this and I really don't see a counter-argument here.

(I voted for Dan by the way)

Re: Who would you vote for in a State Election if held this weekend 28/09

Reply #25
For one moment contemplate this scenario.

In a hypothetical revision of Victoria's COVID journey, Dan Andrews appoints ADF personnell to run hotel quarantine.

Put that in the context of how some people like to call him Despot Dan, Dictator Dan, giving everyone their taste of Communism, etc.

Would he be viewed any differently?

Also, entertain another idea for a moment.  There wont be a vaccine.  I have heard through the grapevine from epidemiologists that there will not be an effective COVID vaccine in the near future.  The suggestions there will be are as much a prevent panic, and sell hope strategy that will eventually bring Chickens home to roost.

The majority of people screaming the loudest about this stuff, seem to be able to assert with absolute certainty, things that they know should and would have happened differently had we taken XYZ action.

Thing is, in hindsight we are all champions.  There is some bone headed stuff that has occurred, and you would like to think that people will be accountable for it and we will find out what happens, but we probably wont.  For all we know, there were other things that went wrong, but people are so fixated they dont know any different.
Come on you Blue FLAGGERS!!

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Who would you vote for in a State Election if held this weekend 28/09

Reply #26
What are we getting from Dan? Lock everyone at home, mandatory masks everywhere and no sophisticated approach to protecting us from meat packing plant workers, returned travellers, high level protections for carers, etc. and a massive focus on the aged care facilities.

Wear a mask and stay home for months cos that works. We know it works but it also devastates the state.

Dan is just not competent enough to manage this and I really don't see a counter-argument here.

(I voted for Dan by the way)
What are the alternatives to isolation?

Isolation it's clearly the best solution even if the concept of extinction is misplaced, the long term price we will pay will come from the Norbits at St Kilda and Altona beach last weekend. Thanks to them we will be back in lock-down before you know it, in a desperate attempt to curtail the millions or perhaps even billions of dollars in medical expenses something like COVID brings in both the short term and the long term!

I wish it was different, we all do, and ignoring the USA which like the St KIlda / Altona crowd is it's own worst enemy, what is now happening in countries like Sweden, Italy, Ireland, UK, France and Germany tells us a very different story. There is no magic bullet, and failure to treat this situation seriously has very real consequences.
The Force Awakens!

Re: Who would you vote for in a State Election if held this weekend 28/09

Reply #27
For one moment contemplate this scenario.

In a hypothetical revision of Victoria's COVID journey, Dan Andrews appoints ADF personnell to run hotel quarantine.

Put that in the context of how some people like to call him Despot Dan, Dictator Dan, giving everyone their taste of Communism, etc.

Would he be viewed any differently?
Agreed, all the complaining is just window dressing for an excuse not to comply, an excuse to be different, an excuse to be another Karen or Corey!

Many of the complainers wanted us to follow Sweden, Ireland, even Italy was held up as a gold standard and a great long term result from a bad bad situation, now all those countries are all falling like dominoes back into the mire! You'll have to dig to find reports about it though, it's not going to appear on Fox or News Ltd, because they want the bottom line restored at any cost!

The USA is forked, protesting it's way into anarchy, and here they call for similar freedoms to decline, do or deny whatever they like ignoring the lessons. We do not have a fraction of the wealth needed to deal with this pandemic if it gets out of hand, and if it gets out of hand globally the price will be far higher than a few weeks at home and some lost income!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Who would you vote for in a State Election if held this weekend 28/09

Reply #28

What are we getting from Dan? Lock everyone at home, mandatory masks everywhere and no sophisticated approach to protecting us from meat packing plant workers, returned travellers, high level protections for carers, etc. and a massive focus on the aged care facilities.

Wear a mask and stay home for months cos that works. We know it works but it also devastates the state.

Dan is just not competent enough to manage this and I really don't see a counter-argument here.

(I voted for Dan by the way)

Problem is, Jeza, we have a % of the population who aren't even sophisticated (or smart) enough to wear a mask, stay within 5km of their home, and not have birthday parties. They screw it for all of us because they think none of it applies to them. 

Dan et al had hours and days, not weeks and months, to implement a workable plan.  They simply went with lowest common denominator,  because it is the lowest common denominators that this virus absolutely thrives upon. 

I am no fan of what we have to put up with, but pretending it will just go away is mindless. And don't even get me started about the idiots dancing on St Kilda beach.......
This is now the longest premiership drought in the history of the Carlton Football Club - more evidence of climate change?

Re: Who would you vote for in a State Election if held this weekend 28/09

Reply #29
For one moment contemplate this scenario.

In a hypothetical revision of Victoria's COVID journey, Dan Andrews appoints ADF personnell to run hotel quarantine.

Put that in the context of how some people like to call him Despot Dan, Dictator Dan, giving everyone their taste of Communism, etc.

Would he be viewed any differently?

Also, entertain another idea for a moment.  There wont be a vaccine.  I have heard through the grapevine from epidemiologists that there will not be an effective COVID vaccine in the near future.  The suggestions there will be are as much a prevent panic, and sell hope strategy that will eventually bring Chickens home to roost.

The majority of people screaming the loudest about this stuff, seem to be able to assert with absolute certainty, things that they know should and would have happened differently had we taken XYZ action.

Thing is, in hindsight we are all champions.  There is some bone headed stuff that has occurred, and you would like to think that people will be accountable for it and we will find out what happens, but we probably wont.  For all we know, there were other things that went wrong, but people are so fixated they dont know any different.

In my view if you want to call Dan something it's Dumbass Dan. Delusional maybe.

My main frustration here is that this criticism involves ZERO convenient hindsight. I was saying for weeks the hotel quarantine was a crazy idea full stop. You only had to see the daily covid cases - sometimes 11 in one day and 10 of them were in hotel quarantine. Why???? Why were we letting those sorts of numbers back in and why bring them on a bus to the most heavily populated part of the state to quarantine - and pay for it?? We should have set up some portables in the middle of paddocks in Puckapunyal and had the ADF patrolling. When devastation of the entire state is at risk that is what should have been happening and I was saying it for weeks - right up until we hit 700 cases per day.

What did Dan do? He had guys who mind a turnstile at Marvel Stadium sharing lifts with returned travellers then going home to large family gatherings/prayer groups. To say it was madness doesn't do it justice. It is unconscionable, it cost lives and livelihoods on a scale beyond any other stuff-up in the history of the country.

Those who question the arsonist analogy are probably right. He's more akin to a guy on a day of total fire ban that decides today's the day I'm going test my homemade fireworks... then shows up to try put the fire out and play the hero.