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Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread

Reply #60 –
Yes, this is clearly the trend, my only concern is a sceptical one.

I have grave doubts about the economics and bona fides of the renewable sector that lead to this push, and if they hold up without subsidy, in fairness much of fossil fuel is subsidised as well but that doesn't mean the push to change to renewable shouldn't happen.

I suspect the companies involved in the production of renewable solutions, Solar POV and Wind, will become next decade's version of Nike and Adidas. They basically export rainbows to wealthy nations built on the skeletons of the downtrodden, with pristine labs and corporate facilities that are a mere facade over the filth of progress. Battery industries might be even worse, perhaps not in the manufacture within those ludicrous architectural wonders of Californian factories, but in the procurement of resources down some hellish Congolese mine.

Those Apple supplier riots currently happening in China, the renewable sector might well be next! :o

It's a massive assumption to conclude rare earths are cleaner to mine than coal or steel, and a massive assumption that carbon offsets in Australia or some other Western Wealth compensate for rampant emissions in a country like China or India. No matter what the spreadsheet suggests, a tree planted here is not an offset of gas or heavy metals issued there, the ledger isn't balanced as they are not like for like. You can't compensate for those emissions, that is just a trick of accounting, you have to stop them at the source.

A colourful associate put it this way;
Shoving a unlimited quantity of calcium carbonate up my bum won't save me from drinking cyanide, the location is all wrong!
(He's an engineer, apparently calcium carbonate is used to mop up cyanide in during production of some alloys.).

In any case, it's not like those emissions are stopped at the border by customs!

I wonder if the forces behind the green push are as willing to look as hard at their own, certainly at the moment the answer seems to be no!

Anyway, ...................... NIMBY!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread

Reply #64 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
https://theconversation.com/forget-about-the-trade-spat-coal-is-passe-in-much-of-china-and-thats-a-bigger-problem-for-australia-153300
China is the world's biggest supplier of steel, India is the second biggest, coal is a critical part of the process and about 70% of the world's steel uses coal as part of the production process not just for energy but for coking. Coking uses twice as much coal as power stations.

Neither country has enough of it's own iron ore or coal to keep up manufacture without foreign support.

If China stops buying coal it is shooting it's own exports in the foot!

The general public get sold on no coal fired power, that's fair enough, but it's only a very small part of the picture not just because power stations are diminishing or being replaced by nuclear, but because even existing coal fired power stations are much more efficient than they were a decade ago. However, coking coal is a different issue, and our government knows that the world isn't going to stop making steel any time soon. If production of steel stops or pauses for a while the price of our ore and coal goes up when demand returns!

People think they are being greener by using steel framed homes instead of cutting trees! ;D
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread

Reply #65 –
Quote
Origin Energy has unveiled plans to build a giant 700-megawatt capacity battery at its coal-fired power plant in Eraring, south of Newcastle, in the New South Wales Hunter region.

If built, Origin said it would have capacity to supply that power to the grid for four hours.

If the plan goes ahead, the battery would be more than four times larger than the 150-megawatt Tesla battery in South Australia.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-12/largest-battery-in-australia-to-be-built-at-nsw-coal-fired-plant/13050642

It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread

Reply #67 –
It is interesting reading all the various links and opinions, I have yet to really see something like Pole shift added to the discussion. Considering its potential effect, I would have thought this would receive more air time. Perhaps they cannot do anything about it so just focus on what they perceive can be influenced.

Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread

Reply #68 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
https://www.smh.com.au/national/what-are-big-batteries-and-how-could-they-reshape-the-electricity-grid-20210211-p571qm.html

First article I read this morning. Good read. The smart power companies will already be well down the road of investing in this and other new power creation / support technologies and the people behind them. And when the money goes in that direction, a light-bulb will illuminate suddenly above the heads of far right politicians.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread

Reply #69 –
Quote from: spf – on
It is interesting reading all the various links and opinions, I have yet to really see something like Pole shift added to the discussion. Considering its potential effect, I would have thought this would receive more air time. Perhaps they cannot do anything about it so just focus on what they perceive can be influenced.
Fascinating subject that doesnt get much air time, the magnetic field created by earth gives us protection and any shift or weakening opens us up to a lot of different problems.
Plenty of attention to what is going on above ground and in the atmosphere but not to much media about the inner core and liquid outer core and effects from volcanoes, lava flows, polar vortexes, and of course will the poles reverse some time again?

Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread

Reply #70 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Fascinating subject that doesnt get much air time, the magnetic field created by earth gives us protection and any shift or weakening opens us up to a lot of different problems.
Plenty of attention to what is going on above ground and in the atmosphere but not to much media about the inner core and liquid outer core and effects from volcanoes, lava flows, polar vortexes, and of course will the poles reverse some time again?

From my understanding its not a matter of IF they will reverse again, but when.

As for how that would effect us? AFAIK, it would essentially leave the world without power instantly.

I'm sure people are working on what to do when this happens, but i reckon we are all screwed when it does.

Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread

Reply #71 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
From my understanding its not a matter of IF they will reverse again, but when.

As for how that would effect us? AFAIK, it would essentially leave the world without power instantly.

I'm sure people are working on what to do when this happens, but i reckon we are all screwed when it does.
Not quite, it potentially leaves us without a protective magnetosphere for a period of time but our human built power generation won't be affected in anyway other than the possibility we are all irradiated and can't turn it on!

I think @spf might have been referring to the drift in the position of the North and South poles, which is far more likely to have an impact within the next few thousand years.

By the way, the flip and the drift are different events. The poles are always drifting, they never stop moving. The flip in effect is a collapse of the field, a bounce effect then and return to normal that takes about 20K to 30K years.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread

Reply #73 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
https://theconversation.com/how-new-design-patterns-can-enable-cities-and-their-residents-to-change-with-climate-change-152749
I've read some articles about how some European countries are already changing planning design, cities become less compact, retain more natural space. I think it's a good thing. There is far more emphasis on walking and bicycles and far far less on cars and motorbikes.

The thing that struck me was the exact opposite of the 60s and 70s, row after row of engineered masonry block buildings warming and cooling with the sun, the new successful designs were far more of a horses for courses approach, no one solution fits with diversity ultimately ruling!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread

Reply #74 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
https://theconversation.com/how-new-design-patterns-can-enable-cities-and-their-residents-to-change-with-climate-change-152749

Firstly, Pauly, thank you for starting this extremely important thread.

Mrs Baggers and I are looking to move (again), very soon. Ponsing up the house to sell -- going like hotcakes on the Island at present -- getting a half acre block (approx) hour to hour and a half east through to northwest of the city and building a very small home (not quite one of the tiny / container homes phenomena - but close) and aiming for self-sufficiency in most respects - grow our own veggies (been doing that for years), electricity, water capture and so on. I'd have to go to a butcher for meat as I couldn't grow and slaughter an animal. I had the very good fortune a few years ago to bump into Paul West in Tilba whilst on holiday and we had a great chat about self-sufficiency. Terrific bloke.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17