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Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread

Reply #60 –
Yes, this is clearly the trend, my only concern is a sceptical one.

I have grave doubts about the economics and bona fides of the renewable sector that lead to this push, and if they hold up without subsidy, in fairness much of fossil fuel is subsidised as well but that doesn't mean the push to change to renewable shouldn't happen.

I suspect the companies involved in the production of renewable solutions, Solar POV and Wind, will become next decade's version of Nike and Adidas. They basically export rainbows to wealthy nations built on the skeletons of the downtrodden, with pristine labs and corporate facilities that are a mere facade over the filth of progress. Battery industries might be even worse, perhaps not in the manufacture within those ludicrous architectural wonders of Californian factories, but in the procurement of resources down some hellish Congolese mine.

Those Apple supplier riots currently happening in China, the renewable sector might well be next! :o

It's a massive assumption to conclude rare earths are cleaner to mine than coal or steel, and a massive assumption that carbon offsets in Australia or some other Western Wealth compensate for rampant emissions in a country like China or India. No matter what the spreadsheet suggests, a tree planted here is not an offset of gas or heavy metals issued there, the ledger isn't balanced as they are not like for like. You can't compensate for those emissions, that is just a trick of accounting, you have to stop them at the source.

A colourful associate put it this way;
Shoving a unlimited quantity of calcium carbonate up my bum won't save me from drinking cyanide, the location is all wrong!
(He's an engineer, apparently calcium carbonate is used to mop up cyanide in during production of some alloys.).

In any case, it's not like those emissions are stopped at the border by customs!

I wonder if the forces behind the green push are as willing to look as hard at their own, certainly at the moment the answer seems to be no!

Anyway, ...................... NIMBY!
The Force Awakens!

Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread

Reply #64 –
Quote from: PaulP on
https://theconversation.com/forget-about-the-trade-spat-coal-is-passe-in-much-of-china-and-thats-a-bigger-problem-for-australia-153300
China is the world's biggest supplier of steel, India is the second biggest, coal is a critical part of the process and about 70% of the world's steel uses coal as part of the production process not just for energy but for coking. Coking uses twice as much coal as power stations.

Neither country has enough of it's own iron ore or coal to keep up manufacture without foreign support.

If China stops buying coal it is shooting it's own exports in the foot!

The general public get sold on no coal fired power, that's fair enough, but it's only a very small part of the picture not just because power stations are diminishing or being replaced by nuclear, but because even existing coal fired power stations are much more efficient than they were a decade ago. However, coking coal is a different issue, and our government knows that the world isn't going to stop making steel any time soon. If production of steel stops or pauses for a while the price of our ore and coal goes up when demand returns!

People think they are being greener by using steel framed homes instead of cutting trees! ;D
The Force Awakens!

Re: The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread

Reply #65 –
Quote
Origin Energy has unveiled plans to build a giant 700-megawatt capacity battery at its coal-fired power plant in Eraring, south of Newcastle, in the New South Wales Hunter region.

If built, Origin said it would have capacity to supply that power to the grid for four hours.

If the plan goes ahead, the battery would be more than four times larger than the 150-megawatt Tesla battery in South Australia.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-12/largest-battery-in-australia-to-be-built-at-nsw-coal-fired-plant/13050642

“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball