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Topic: Best 22 in 21 (Read 23062 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Best 22 in 21

Reply #60 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
No Gov, no Jack S, no Dow. 8 defenders, 9 if you count Zac W based on a previous life. Interesting. Not enough fwd cover for mine.
Forgot about McGovern agree.., cant see him playing in the magoos, that would be embarrassing for club and player, maybe Newman comes out for McGovern.
Think Jack and Dow would be backups, dont see either as regulars unless we have injuries.

Re: Best 22 in 21

Reply #61 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Forgot about McGovern agree.., cant see him playing in the magoos, that would be embarrassing for club and player, maybe Newman comes out for McGovern.
Think Jack and Dow would be backups, dont see either as regulars unless we have injuries.
I think when fit Jack is easy in our best 22.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Best 22 in 21

Reply #62 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
I think when fit Jack is easy in our best 22.
Don't get me wrong I like Jack and he would get strong consideration from me for selection but I'm looking at it from Teagues viewpoint and who he likes and with Jack's situation at the club being tenuous IMHO I'm not sure he will be a priority for the future.
eg I think a player like McGovern will get preferred regardless of form.

Re: Best 22 in 21

Reply #63 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
eg I think a player like McGovern will get preferred regardless of form.
Form is one issue that ugly word potential another, let's not degrade McGovern's capability just because he lacks consistency, because we are comparing two players of equal ability.

Having said that, heart means something, more than most think, so SOJ would be one of my first picked every week!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Best 22 in 21

Reply #64 –
Quote from: LP – on

Having said that, heart means something, more than most think, so SOJ would be one of my first picked every week!
Exactly, he is the type of soldier you need. Hard, doesn't shirk, will sacrifice his game for others and is a Kent.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Best 22 in 21

Reply #65 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Exactly, he is the type of soldier you need. Hard, doesn't shirk, will sacrifice his game for others and is a Kent.
I think most would pick Jack based on heart and effort but I'm not sure the coach and his crew see him in the same light.
He wont get the same leeway for poor performance that some of the bigger name/bigger money players get and would be one of the first dropped if we are struggling IMHO. Not having a true defined position never helps either and while his utility status is a strength it will also count against him in selection IMO when you are picking a best team and puts him in that group of players more likely to be picked on the bench at best if everyone is fit and available.

Re: Best 22 in 21

Reply #66 –
Clearly, the Inner Sanctum's selection panel doesn't take player profiles, popularity and club politics into account   :)

You couldn't pick McGovern on exposed form and Jack's absence through injury will have hurt his chances.  Like many folk here, I would have Jack in the 22 before McGovern, and probably a couple of others, but only on the proviso that he has improved his goal kicking.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Best 22 in 21

Reply #67 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Clearly, the Inner Sanctum's selection panel doesn't take player profiles, popularity and club politics into account   :)

You couldn't pick McGovern on exposed form and Jack's absence through injury will have hurt his chances.  Like many folk here, I would have Jack in the 22 before McGovern, and probably a couple of others, but only on the proviso that he has improved his goal kicking.
He ain't Robinson Crusoe I'll give you the mail.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Best 22 in 21

Reply #68 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
He ain't Robinson Crusoe I'll give you the mail.
That is one area people can't criticise McGovern, kicking, he's elite.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Best 22 in 21

Reply #69 –
Quote from: LP – on
That is one area people can't criticise McGovern, kicking, he's elite.

Yep.  Thats one thing that you cant criticise about McGovern.  The bloke is a footballer.  A good athlete, and a proffessional....  well thats up for debate, but when he is kicking for goal, I think he is possibly our best converter. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Best 22 in 21

Reply #70 –
In 2020 McGovern averaged about 7 possies a game at about 66% DE, Matt Kennedy was about 16 possies a game@69%DE.
Nothing special about McGovern at all IMO, he would want to kick straight as he cant get the ball.

Re: Best 22 in 21

Reply #71 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
In 2020 McGovern averaged about 7 possies a game at about 66% DE, Matt Kennedy was about 16 possies a game@69%DE.
Nothing special about McGovern at all IMO, he would want to kick straight as he cant get the ball.
Is it feasible to compare a KPP to an Onballer?

For someone working stoppages or midfield does the DE% include 1m handballs?

It seems to me there are biases in the stats that have to be considered when they are being discussed.

Does Newman's kick for goal, or McGovern's kick for goal form outside F50, get any special weight in the DE% statistics, or are they the same as a 15m pass?

@ElwoodBlues1 It's not unreasonable to consider that these things are not all equal!

As an aside, just as Levi missing from the goal square would swing momentum, I can also recall some occasions last season when McGovern's straight kicking swung momentum. If I accept the influence of one I have to accept the influence of the other.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Best 22 in 21

Reply #72 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
In 2020 McGovern averaged about 7 possies a game at about 66% DE, Matt Kennedy was about 16 possies a game@69%DE.
Nothing special about McGovern at all IMO, he would want to kick straight as he cant get the ball.
So overrated its ridiculous IMO. I was both excited and perplexed when we recruited him. Excited because a high profile player chose us, perplexed because I think we needed a prize mid not a fwd. Since his arrival, its been nothing but a big bag of excuses. Its just a mask for his lack of professionalism and dedication.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Best 22 in 21

Reply #73 –
Quote from: LP – on
Is it feasible to compare a KPP to an Onballer?

For someone working stoppages or midfield does the DE% include 1m handballs?

It seems to me there are biases in the stats that have to be considered when they are being discussed.

Does Newman's kick for goal, or McGovern's kick for goal form outside F50, get any special weight in the DE% statistics, or are they the same as a 15m pass?

@ElwoodBlues1 It's not unreasonable to consider that these things are not all equal!

As an aside, just as Levi missing from the goal square would swing momentum, I can also recall some occasions last season when McGovern's straight kicking swung momentum. If I accept the influence of one I have to accept the influence of the other.
Agree its a difficult comparison but Kennedy has played forward as a 3rd mobile marking target and mids as we know get more ball but can also have poor DE as they are under more pressure at the coal face and clearances. Its the rebounding half backs/back pockets who get a lot of cheap ball who tend to get the high DE numbers. I'm just suggesting there is nothing startling about McGovern and his impact on games. Would Jack or Kennedy give you similar output or better at 1/3 of the cost..
I thought Kennedy was quite good when played forward both marking and kicking for goal but seemed to be the 1st dropped when we lost unlike McGovern who gave us nothing most games but kept his place due to his higher profile and relationship with the coach but I am going over old ground so I will stop here..

Re: Best 22 in 21

Reply #74 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
I thought Kennedy was quite good when played forward both marking and kicking for goal but seemed to be the 1st dropped when we lost unlike McGovern who gave us nothing most games but kept his place due to his higher profile and relationship with the coach but I am going over old ground so I will stop here..
Agree, I've no idea what Kennedy did wrong to fall out of favour, team rules?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"