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Re: Justice

Reply #15
^^

I know this seems a bit contrary, but the tragedy of the ending of 3 lives, is only exacerbated by ending the 4th.  This person is going to have to learn to live with themselves, and will one day come to the realisation that their own actions brought the premature ending of an entire family.

I actually think thats a greater punishment to have to live with those actions.

The punishment of having the shame of this action hanging over your head for the rest of your life would arguably be much worse than anything else.

The vindictive side of me, would make the perpetrator of this crime write a biography of the people he killed and ensure it is complete, and compiled with as much accuracy as possible.  Birth records, marriage records, ultra sound photos of the unborn child, all compiled and placed into a scrap book in memory of those lives he ended.

If this doesnt cause the right level of torture and punishment nothing ever will, and it will ensure that this person doesnt make a similar mistake again (or will drive them mad).  Either way, its a Just outcome and one that this person is deserving of.


Of course we should lock this person up so they are no longer able to harm anyone else and are actually punished for their actions, but the torture I outlayed above is well beyond any sort of physical pain you could hope to impart on him.
Come on you Blue FLAGGERS!!

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Justice

Reply #16
I live about five minutes from Alexandra Hills
One of the problems here is that social media is coming into play on local chat groups.
Folks are fired up and calling for blood. Names (accurate or not) and previous offences and history (accurate or not) are being made public which in the case of current legislation and practice presents a problem for Police trying to build their case.
You can argue that should be in the public domain (I reckon at 17 it probably should)but....
While we hope for a fair trial with a significant penalty it would terrible if information that should not have been disclosed prejudices any procedure.

Re: Justice

Reply #17
When you read that a couple and their unborn child were killed due to the criminal activity of a 17 year old, most of us go straight to vengeance - dash out the pr1ck's brains on a rock, kind of stuff.

Justice is a funny word these days. It did meant something, once. Then along came lawyers. Then as lawyers became smarter, more manipulative, more charming and even theatrical... accountability became watered down, and 'negotiable'. Very wealthy people and organisations know that. Hell, lawyers are taught how to 'use/manipulate the system'.

So if our 17 year old alleged murderer gets the right lawyers... why, heck, there's diminished responsibility due to drugs, then there's mental health issues, awful upbringing issues and the mitigation list continues. So it ends up being 4th degree manslaughter and 3 years... or something like that. And mum and dad and their unborn remain dead.

So, in the interests of equity (forget justice, that was bought and sold yonks ago), what do we do? (Remembering that equity, in this context, is the application of the spirit of a law (and not so much the letter-of-the-law), where fairness is paramount.)

Scenarios like this will just keep repeating until we make serious, very serious progress in:

Addressing in a meaningful way all the components that contributed to a person ending up so fck up that they flagrantly break the law and cause so much damage, criminal damage, life ending damage.

Get a far, far greater understanding of mental health/illness... holy [email protected], it's at the very core of so much criminality.

Prevention culture/attitude.

Truly understand that mitigation (eg mental health issue) may explain the crime but in no way whatsoever excuses, moderates or lessens the crime in any way at all. So, regardless, accountability needs to remain paramount.

Our Justice system is based on the premise that it offers rehabilitation not just punishment and especially for minors.
Frustrating for those who want instant gratification and offenders fried in a chair or swinging from a gallows but thats
what evolution and education has provided modern society.
Mental illness is a card that gets played every day in courts as offenders look to dumb their sentence down and serve time in mental health institutions rather than jail and its an area of law that needs more attention IMHO.

Re: Justice

Reply #18
We can grieve for the couple, their unborn child but what of their extended families. 

They've got a forever haunted future.  Just as he should.

Re: Justice

Reply #19
There's justice and there's retribution.  The legal system supposedly offers the first ,  and if the other comes into play,  the legal system certainly will.

One thing I've noticed recently is the total absence of the concept of responsibility for one's actions in the various debates.   Since when does upbringing,  ingestion of drugs or mental state excuse one of basic responsibilities and moral obligations? 
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Justice

Reply #20
There's justice and there's retribution.  The legal system supposedly offers the first ,  and if the other comes into play,  the legal system certainly will.

One thing I've noticed recently is the total absence of the concept of responsibility for one's actions in the various debates.   Since when does upbringing,  ingestion of drugs or mental state excuse one of basic responsibilities and moral obligations? 

Its become a national past time to dodge responsibility for anything including making decisions.
Come on you Blue FLAGGERS!!

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Justice

Reply #21
Our legal system doesn't dish out justice, its pathetic. A bloke can murder his wife, put her in the boot of the car, drive her to the country, put her in a hole under a log and its called manslaughter. Result? 9 years B&B courtesy of HRH. Mind you, I am certain  the daughter did it and the Old Man is taking the blame for it but that's another story. Justice in this joint is stuffed and as someone else said, blame the parasite lawyers and weak as piss judges. We need serious legal reform. As for the maggot 17 year old, no hope for rehab, he'll be in and out of jail for the rest of his life. Save taxpayer money now by spending 25c. Ill gladly do it.
2017 - 16th
2018 - Wooden Spoon
2019 - 16th
2020 - dare to dream?
2021 - Pi$$ or get off the pot

Re: Justice

Reply #22
Our legal system doesn't dish out justice, its pathetic. A bloke can murder his wife, put her in the boot of the car, drive her to the country, put her in a hole under a log and its called manslaughter. Result? 9 years B&B courtesy of HRH. Mind you, I am certain  the daughter did it and the Old Man is taking the blame for it but that's another story. Justice in this joint is stuffed and as someone else said, blame the parasite lawyers and weak as piss judges. We need serious legal reform. As for the maggot 17 year old, no hope for rehab, he'll be in and out of jail for the rest of his life. Save taxpayer money now by spending 25c. Ill gladly do it.
Agree Justice is too lenient in Australia eg Our Porche driver on the Eastern involved with the loss of four police officers...think you will be disappointed when he comes to trial.

Re: Justice

Reply #23
Agree Justice is too lenient in Australia eg Our Porche driver on the Eastern involved with the loss of four police officers...think you will be disappointed when he comes to trial.
Agree, another evil human being. He'll get off, his time in jail whilst on remand is the only jail time he will see.
2017 - 16th
2018 - Wooden Spoon
2019 - 16th
2020 - dare to dream?
2021 - Pi$$ or get off the pot

Re: Justice

Reply #24
Our Justice system is based on the premise that it offers rehabilitation not just punishment...

Talk to anyone involved in the criminal justice system who is truly objective and they'll tell you what an abject failure rehab is - it's a standing gag that prison is a revolving door. Not that the idea doesn't have merit, and the folks conducting it aren't well-meaning/intentioned, just we do not know how to be really successful at meaningful/lasting rehab/change yet. Meanwhile, we fail to protect society from sick individuals prone to violence. A huge and complex subject deserving of a thread all on its own.

Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Justice

Reply #25
Our legal system doesn't dish out justice, its pathetic. A bloke can murder his wife, put her in the boot of the car, drive her to the country, put her in a hole under a log and its called manslaughter. Result? 9 years B&B courtesy of HRH. Mind you, I am certain  the daughter did it and the Old Man is taking the blame for it but that's another story. Justice in this joint is stuffed and as someone else said, blame the parasite lawyers and weak as piss judges. We need serious legal reform. As for the maggot 17 year old, no hope for rehab, he'll be in and out of jail for the rest of his life. Save taxpayer money now by spending 25c. Ill gladly do it.

One of the key reasons that retribution -- 25cent lead bullet to the brain stem -- doesn't work, and in fact only makes things worse, is that, in this case, the 17 year alleged murderer has friends and family, and when you drop one of theirs, they'll drop you or one of yours... and so the cycle continues. And all the while a mum & dad and their unborn remain dead.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Justice

Reply #26
Shooting, hanging, injecting, electrocuting, stoning or beheading people isn't justice.

Justice is rotting in a cell devoid of freedom for an eternity, death is a relief from that!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Justice

Reply #27
Shooting, hanging, injecting, electrocuting, stoning or beheading people isn't justice.

Justice is rotting in a cell devoid of freedom for an eternity, death is a relief from that!

It was once said of capital punishment that it is nothing more than 'sanitized vengeance'. As I wrote previously, vengeance only begets vengeance.

To me the first reason for incarcerating any criminal is not punishment but to protect the community from that individual.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Justice

Reply #28
As above.... To protect the community has to be the primary goal.   So to this end,  how can this individual ever be trusted to walk free within the community ever again?

DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Justice

Reply #29
As above.... To protect the community has to be the primary goal.   So to this end,  how can this individual ever be trusted to walk free within the community ever again?



Absolutely, Professory.

Even though I work in the mental health field I have long advocated for far heavier penalties for criminal activity. Why? Because longer jail time for offenders means the community is protected for longer. And having worked for decades in mental health I am well aware of its success rate on working with offenders, or the lack thereof. Don't get me started on the effectiveness of anger management courses etc (which I've run!!!!). Anger is a far greater issue than any 6 week course can alter significantly, or... enough to prevent another crime. Show me any angry man and I'll show you a trail of destruction behind him... physical, psychological or both.

Although mental health issues may explain why it happened it does not, nor should it ever, cause a more sympathetic sentence. Sympathy, first and foremost, is for the victim(s)... their voice(s) are not being heard loud enough in today's legal system (charade).

Once your actions have led to the death or traumatic harm (rape, psychological abuse etc) of another human being or a number of human beings, I do not care how compelling the mitigation is... the community has a right to feel protected from that individual for a very long time, much longer than so many sentences are today.

I find myself completely intolerant of a legal system that 'negotiates' justice, does 'deals' around criminal punishment.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17