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Topic: AFL Practice Match 2021 Carlton vs the Drug Cheats (Read 23152 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Practice Match 2021 Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #135 –
Quote from: LP – on
Q: What is the biggest tell a coach is a dud?

A: Copying the ladder leader's tactics!

Or copying what worked at a previous club who had different cattle at their disposal!

Re: AFL Practice Match 2021 Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #138 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Its worth pointing out that we shouldn't try and play like the tigers. The tigers play that way because they have the players to play that way.
We need to play a way that suits our players....and allows us the best chance of winning most weeks, especially in finals.
I don't fully agree with you that the Tigers play the way they play because of the players they have. They have a system,  which Hardwick developed, and everyone to a man adheres to it religiously. New players come in and they are taught quickly to play to their system. Harwick has said as much in interviews. The system is:
- Force a turnover by manic pressure
- helter skelter move it fwd at all all costs.
- Gain meters, get it to fwds who finish the job.
- Players flood back to defence when needed (which we did on Thurs vs the cheats).
The thing with them that's critical is that they finish their work more often than not.
I do agree though that we need to come up with our formula or system which is successful.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Practice Match 2021 Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #139 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Its worth pointing out that we shouldn't try and play like the tigers. The tigers play that way because they have the players to play that way.
We need to play a way that suits our players....and allows us the best chance of winning most weeks, especially in finals.
Winning the contested ball consistently for 4 quarters is is a non negotiable.
That's what gives you the ball to apply what ever style/method you use to score.
Richmond have very few if any players who don't contest well or try and cheat on their teammates by being weak at the contest.
You only need 10-15 minutes of insipid/lazy contesting vs the good teams and they will pile on 5 goals and its game over.
eg GWS have had all the talent in the world, their own style but every other team knows they don't contest well when challenged and its their key players who let them down.
Contested ball in the big moments and efficiency under pressure is where I see us needing to improve.





Re: AFL Practice Match 2021 Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #140 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
I don't fully agree with you that the Tigers play the way they play because of the players they have. They have a system,  which Hardwick developed, and everyone to a man adheres to it religiously. New players come in and they are taught quickly to play to their system. Harwick has said as much in interviews. The system is:
- Force a turnover by manic pressure
- helter skelter move it fwd at all all costs.
- Gain meters, get it to fwds who finish the job.
- Players flood back to defence when needed (which we did on Thurs vs the cheats).
The thing with them that's critical is that they finish their work more often than not.
I do agree though that we need to come up with our formula or system which is successful.
I'm not saying they don't have a system.
I'm saying the system came about with an eye to the players they had available.

eg. You don't play a chip kick game if you have poor kickers on your list.
Instead you either
a) Recruit better kickers to help execute your intended game plan.
b) Change your game plan to better utilise your current players strengths.

Over time, both of those things are used and game plans are tweaked along with it.

A game plan is something that should be unique to the club in any given year due to the fact each club has a different set of players in any given year.

Re: AFL Practice Match 2021 Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #141 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Winning the contested ball consistently for 4 quarters is is a non negotiable.
That's what gives you the ball to apply what ever style/method you use to score.

There is an asterisk to the above. Geelong (at least from a few years ago).

They never won contested ball because they played a different style.

They almost conceded the stoppage, but pressured the ball carrier. They would set up a wall (in close and deep) to attack the ball coming out of the stoppage. More of a rebounding, run and gun approach.

What good is a 'quick kick' out of a stoppage if it goes straight to the opposition who now have numbers, time and space to attack.
That was Geelongs approach.

Re: AFL Practice Match 2021 Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #142 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
I'm not saying they don't have a system.
I'm saying the system came about with an eye to the players they had available.

eg. You don't play a chip kick game if you have poor kickers on your list.
Instead you either
a) Recruit better kickers to help execute your intended game plan.
b) Change your game plan to better utilise your current players strengths.

Over time, both of those things are used and game plans are tweaked along with it.

A game plan is something that should be unique to the club in any given year due to the fact each club has a different set of players in any given year.
What I am saying is that I feel his system is not player ability based per se`. For example, they have two big power fwds in Jack and Lynch. You'd reckon they'd be in Coleman contention, they kicked 33  and 32 goals respectively. They have a handy midfield but there are no 35-40 possession games for many of them. Its a more basic system, ugly at times, but basic. They just do it well for longer.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Practice Match 2021 Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #143 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
What I am saying is that I feel his system is not player ability based per se`. For example, they have two big power fwds in Jack and Lynch. You'd reckon they'd be in Coleman contention, they kicked 33  and 32 goals respectively. They have a handy midfield but there are no 35-40 possession games for many of them. Its a more basic system, ugly at times, but basic. They just do it well for longer.

They did win one before Lynch came on board too.

I'm not doubting you, or your critique. What i am saying is that, still, is a choice. A choice which is made based on the players you have available and the abilties they have.

Think about when we had Murphy and Gibbs as our premier midfielders, and Houlihan too. Would oppositions feel intimidated by them physically? Would you want them bashing and crashing into packs and coming out injured?? That wouldn't put fear into the opposition. Having them on the outside, penetrating our F50 with precision is what made teams worry. Our best performances was when we played a running, attack at all costs mentality that saw us get it in as quick as possible to the best FF in the game at the time.
Scores were through the roof. We won more than we lost.....but defensively we were non-existent. Opposition scores were high as well.

Tigers play a 'simple' style that works for the players they have. You don't need to be an elite kick like our old mates mentioned above, you just need to commit your body at each and every contest, week after week. If you can't, we'll find someone who can.
Tigers won with Grigg in the ruck. Why? Because it was all about competing when the ball hit the ground. Clearly Dusty thrives in it, but even softy Cotchin grew into the role and the other 'hacks' found a niche in there as well.

Re: AFL Practice Match 2021 Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #144 –
The biggest influence over the Ntmond results is Dimma continually whinging in the media about umpires impeding blokes like Dusty and Cotchin from doing whatever they like outside the rules of the game!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Practice Match 2021 Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #145 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Dont fancy Moore vs Richmond rnd1...he wont touch it and his opponents like Nankervis in the ruck or Grimes, Astbury, Balta etc down back will tear us a new one.
Who did Essendon have in the ruck...kids?
McDonald probably makes more sense, any long term injury to Jones or JW and we would be done for the year without some cover IMO.

It's a tough one actually.

I was against Moore initially, favouring McDonald but I'd be going between either Moore or Crocker myself.

Moore, IMO, is a versatile tall - forward, ruck, back. I see him more as a Liam Jones style fast, agile and aggressive defender as opposed to a forward making the play. Like Jones, I don't think Moore has the forward craft to play forward and I would prefer him down back as cover opposed to McDonald.

Re: AFL Practice Match 2021 Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #146 –
Quote from: Pratty – on
It's a tough one actually.

I was against Moore initially, favouring McDonald but I'd be going between either Moore or Crocker myself.

Moore, IMO, is a versatile tall - forward, ruck, back. I see him more as a Liam Jones style fast, agile and aggressive defender as opposed to a forward making the play. Like Jones, I don't think Moore has the forward craft to play forward and I would prefer him down back as cover opposed to McDonald.
Fair enough Pratty, my view is probably a specialist KP defender is a priority.
Not saying Oscar Mcdonald is a world beater but he has some experience, size and some idea of what's required. Moore is a great athlete but is a jack of all trades but master of none.. Raw is a kind way of saying he has little nous. Ben Crocker has appeal because he looks different to the usual Carlton cleanskin von Trapp kid we recruit but imo isn't quick enough at AFL level. Be a handy VFL player as he has some nous after playing at two clubs but I think we have his position covered and need cover where it's thin with a KP defender.

Re: AFL Practice Match 2021 Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #147 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Ben Crocker has appeal because he looks different to the usual Carlton cleanskin von Trapp kid we recruit but imo isn't quick enough at AFL level. Be a handy VFL player as he has some nous after playing at two clubs but I think we have his position covered and need cover where it's thin with a KP defender.
Yes, we've got Gibbons, hard to see Crocker also getting a run as I think Gibbons has him well covered. I realise they are not the same type of player, but they are basically competing for the one spot in the team.

Probably one thing Crocker offers, he might be a useful cover for more than one player allowing reshuffles, Ed, Walsh, SPS, Gibbons, Fisher, sMurph, etc., etc., but we do have a bunch of kids who can also do those jobs.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Practice Match 2021 Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #148 –
Quote from: Pratty – on
It's a tough one actually.

I was against Moore initially, favouring McDonald but I'd be going between either Moore or Crocker myself.

Moore, IMO, is a versatile tall - forward, ruck, back. I see him more as a Liam Jones style fast, agile and aggressive defender as opposed to a forward making the play. Like Jones, I don't think Moore has the forward craft to play forward and I would prefer him down back as cover opposed to McDonald.
I don't see Moore as a viable ruck option, some have tried to paint him in the Casboult mould but I think he is far far from it. He was a stand in for Grigg really, but those rules have changed and the Grigg option is dead in the water now, and rightly so!

At the moment I think our club has it's list in a bit of a pickle, I realise some won't think this because they see the potential for a few nice forwards and mids, but that won't help us if we start getting smashed in the ruck contests. We got a glimpse of that last season when Pittonet had his form slump. FFS, do not ruck Harry!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"
 

Re: AFL Practice Match 2021 Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #149 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Fair enough Pratty, my view is probably a specialist KP defender is a priority.
Not saying Oscar Mcdonald is a world beater but he has some experience, size and some idea of what's required. Moore is a great athlete but is a jack of all trades but master of none.. Raw is a kind way of saying he has little nous. Ben Crocker has appeal because he looks different to the usual Carlton cleanskin von Trapp kid we recruit but imo isn't quick enough at AFL level. Be a handy VFL player as he has some nous after playing at two clubs but I think we have his position covered and need cover where it's thin with a KP defender.

It doesn't bother me that much who we go with to tell you the truth but I see Callum Moore a better option down back to Oscar McDonald. Just a preference.