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Topic: Community Cup Carlton vs St. Kilda (Read 22324 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Community Cup Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #90 –
Quote from: LP – on
You can't read too much into this game, as you never know what training block clubs are running, I thought we looked sluggish, but it may well be we are a heavy training block which explains the heavy leg appearance.

Teague said in the post match that the players have been pushed pretty hard in recent times, so that's a fair point.

Re: Community Cup Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #91 –
Any update on Weeters and Harry?

2020...time to perform or get punted. First player in that group is SPS on that lacklustre performance.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Community Cup Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #92 –
Haven't yet watched the game but it sounds like many of our woes of old are still with us?
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Community Cup Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #93 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Has Oscar McDonald earned the last list spot based on his efforts tonight?

Not as a ruckman (except to a very limited extent) but DEFINITELY as a tall forward/defender to provide depth and a tall option to Plowman against teams with three tall marking forwards.

Re: Community Cup Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #94 –
Didn't watch the game either so can only go by the stats but the Saints small forwards all had plenty of the ball and kicked goals. SPS, Saad and Docherty do not defend and the game was a shoot out and we can't seem to find that happy medium between defense and attack. Saad is a good recruit as a rebounder but the other two I mentioned need to lock down more if we are going to play a free wheeling game vs the better teams.



Re: Community Cup Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #95 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Zac has been excellent, Saad not so good IMO.
Quote from: kruddler – on
Big tick to the recruiters.

Williams and Saad CLEARLY improve our side.
1.5 million and a pick 8 so they should
Saad leaked goals in first half
Is purely a player in the easiest position on the ground
Williams is a very good player but he did nothing in the last
We are asking a player to become a mid week in week out after he has played virtually all his career in defense
So he should on $850000 a year for 5 years
Martin by the way is so overrated
What has he achieved in his career so far
Poor recruiting over the last 5 years
I look at the list overall and there are too many average players
IMO we overate our list  we have for the last 20
Years
5 spoons
13 bottom 6 finishes
4 final appearances one a token
No preliminary final experience
There is your proof we overate our list
We lack pace so we recruit 3 establish players  who are quick give up picks and salary cap space and the presumption is we will be ok
We won’t progress unless SPS Dow OBrien etc get better

Re: Community Cup Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #96 –
Geez SOS is a sour bugger couldn’t even smile when Jack took a nice mark and kicked a goal!
Get over it hate Liddle if you must not the club.
McDonald before Moore every day of the week as backup his two goals while we were behind and rearranging the forward line were enough and can fill in on backline when needed, also at least compete in the ruck for 5 minutes
We did alright for no tall specialist forward, or chb when weitering got corked or  ruck when pittonet rested

Re: Community Cup Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #97 –
Quote from: RiverRat – on
Not as a ruckman (except to a very limited extent) but DEFINITELY as a tall forward/defender to provide depth and a tall option to Plowman against teams with three tall marking forwards.

Yeah, backup ruck purely to give pittonet a breather and save Jones/McKay from that fate.
His efforts to fill a need and do so to an afl standard is what we are lacking at both ends of the ground.
Depending on how our injuries go, he'd be a smoky to not only get on the list, but play r1!

Re: Community Cup Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #98 –
Quote from: keogh – on
IMO we overate our list  we have for the last 20
Years
5 spoons
13 bottom 6 finishes
4 final appearances one a token
No preliminary final experience
There is your proof we overate our list
We lack pace so we recruit 3 establish players  who are quick give up picks and salary cap space and the presumption is we will be ok

Firstly, past history does not give an accurate presentation of our current list.
Your little stat shaming exercise would be similar to what Richmond's was before they went nuts and won 3 out of 4 flags. By your logic,  tigers had a crap list because it was crap in the past. Doesn't make sense.

Finally,  all the other negativity aside....our recruiting actually targeted areas of need...
and filled them. When was the last time you could say that?
As for cap space... you have to pay someone. Your list analysis says we lack talent... and you don't want to pay the new recruits... so who are you paying? Gotta pay someone, might as well be new recruits who fill a need,  rather than the hacks who have given us nothing over the past 20 years.... right?

You can't have it both ways.

Re: Community Cup Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #99 –
There is a couple of things I take out of this, Cripps and McDonald are very average talls as resting forwards. I thought McDonald looked much better behind the footy, but his disposal is ordinary, but he's not alone in that regard. Again this may be because of our current training block. Cripps doesn't even naturally exhibit basic overhead marking skills, why would he as he's always been a midfielder. I think these opinions that he could be a A-Grade KPF are greatly overstated and should not be listened to any further. McDonald is continually out of position as a forward.

Moore looks more agile and aware as an on the ball tall/heavy body, he makes faster better decisions than McDonald, but Moore is not nearly as useful as a marking target. McDonald might not be a good tap ruck option, but he is quite useful in the ruck when the ball hits the deck as he acts immediately like an extra midfield member. So Moore might be useful as a niche tagger for some other big bodied midfielder, but McDonald looks better in a KPP role. It's a coin toss between them and injuries will perhaps that'll determine the choice more than player skills!

I'm not sure how Williams, Martin and Fisher can fit together inside F50, even though they can generate opportunities, they missed just as many getting in each others way or waiting for the other to act/strike. Too many times it was left to Newnes to attack the contested footy. Williams shows very good awareness in close in traffic, better than Fisher or Martin.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Community Cup Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #100 –
Cripps can and will outmark midfielders 90% of the time.
As dodgy as it was, cripps dominated as a tall forward in aflx whenever that was around.

Re: Community Cup Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #101 –
Quote from: keogh – on
1.5 million and a pick 8 so they should
Saad leaked goals in first half
Is purely a player in the easiest position on the ground
Williams is a very good player but he did nothing in the last
We are asking a player to become a mid week in week out after he has played virtually all his career in defense
So he should on $850000 a year for 5 years
Martin by the way is so overrated
What has he achieved in his career so far
Poor recruiting over the last 5 years
I look at the list overall and there are too many average players
IMO we overate our list  we have for the last 20
Years
5 spoons
13 bottom 6 finishes
4 final appearances one a token
No preliminary final experience
There is your proof we overate our list
We lack pace so we recruit 3 establish players  who are quick give up picks and salary cap space and the presumption is we will be ok
We won’t progress unless SPS Dow OBrien etc get better


You wouldn't be a good friend of John Hollingsworth, would you?  ;)  ;)  ;D
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Community Cup Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #102 –
Proof will be in pudding as always
As for Richmond
Their recruiting is the best in the business
Particularly in the last 4 years
They have depth
Williams Saad Mc Govern Martin
Those 4 combined cost us 3 million a season
We given up draft picks to get 2 of them
Liam Baker gets rookied running around for Subi
Is better than all of them
On less cash
9 of Richmond’s last 2 premiership teams contain players who were not top 50 picks in the National Draft
Dow SPS OBrien all too 10 picks haven’t delivered so far
Good List Management is the key to success these days
It’s the game breaker

Re: Community Cup Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #103 –
Re: Mcdonald, he wasn't expected to be a ruckman, he has only ever played down back so its a bit unfair to judge him on that skillset.
Moore has been less than hopeless and has no idea about any facet of the game and has no place on our list.
 

Re: Community Cup Carlton vs St. Kilda

Reply #104 –
Quote from: keogh – on
Proof will be in pudding as always
As for Richmond
Their recruiting is the best in the business
Particularly in the last 4 years
They have depth
Williams Saad Mc Govern Martin
Those 4 combined cost us 3 million a season
We given up draft picks to get 2 of them
Liam Baker gets rookied running around for Subi
Is better than all of them
On less cash
9 of Richmond’s last 2 premiership teams contain players who were not top 50 picks in the National Draft
Dow SPS OBrien all too 10 picks haven’t delivered so far
Good List Management is the key to success these days
It’s the game breaker

So tigers recruiting in the last 4 years has been best in the business. But the team that won their first was arranged prior to 4 years ago. Which is when their performances were akin to ours....which you used as the benchmark for a crap list.

I'm not saying or list is good bad or otherwise,  just pointing out that your negative comments are exaggerated and over the top.

You could make the same point without the need for stretching the truth beyond a reasonable level to the point where it is just wrong.