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Re: Tokyo 2021

Reply #15
Now C7 is gone, why doesn’t the A-League go head-to-head with the AFL in winter? And why don’t the FTA channels fight for the rights to broadcast the summer competition. I’m guessing there are nasty bullies everywhere devoted to crushing the A-League instead of treating it as the golden goose. Or maybe Cricket Australia are the bullies. Why don’t the NBL & Cricket Australia just move their competitions to winter to help the A-League? You know it makes sense ...

You used the word bully first.

Cop your serve and wear it.  The a league isn't the NSL.

That league is dead.  The A league might be the same code but that was the death of Australian soccer to me.

You don't like the truth, but the fact is that the world game has the world cup on during that time because of the European leagues having a short break before they ramp up again in September.  Poor AFL.   Almost got sidelined by the world cup in Australia.  Bullied.   Your words mav.  Yours.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Tokyo 2021

Reply #16
You might try to argue facts rather than a Trump-like conspiracy theory. Your best case of the AFL bullying the NSL is to attack C7. You might notice that the AFL has 3 letters and C7 has 1 letter and 1 number, and the letter isn’t an A or a F or a L. If C7 paid the NSL for the rights, they helped out an ailing organisation that folded under its own disorganisation.

Wasn’t it the best day when the bid to sideline the AFL with the World Cup went down in flames? It still makes me laugh. By the way, what did you think ofCraig Foster’ suggestion that the AFL should somehow send it’s best young talent to play soccer so the Socceroos could do better? His theory was that the AFL wouldn’t suffer as it would still have an even competition after all of the cream was taken away. Just love that arrogance!

Re: Tokyo 2021

Reply #17
You might try to argue facts rather than a Trump-like conspiracy theory. Your best case of the AFL bullying the NSL is to attack C7. You might notice that the AFL has 3 letters and C7 has 1 letter and 1 number, and the letter isn’t an A or a F or a L. If C7 paid the NSL for the rights, they helped out an ailing organisation that folded under its own disorganisation.

Wasn’t it the best day when the bid to sideline the AFL with the World Cup went down in flames? It still makes me laugh. By the way, what did you think ofCraig Foster’ suggestion that the AFL should somehow send it’s best young talent to play soccer so the Socceroos could do better? His theory was that the AFL wouldn’t suffer as it would still have an even competition after all of the cream was taken away. Just love that arrogance!

Pot calling the kettle black.  Your inability to wear any criticism is showing. 

Foster has never had my respect.  Ive always considered him second rate.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Tokyo 2021

Reply #18
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/C7_Sport

Quote
Attempt to harm soccer   
During the trial it was revealed that C7 had purchased the rights to National Soccer League content with the intention of "suffocating" coverage of the sport to benefit the AFL (i.e., Australian rules football). This was evidenced by an email from C7 to the AFL complaining about the AFL's ingratitude.[12]

Trust me, I know what im talking about.  You share more in common with Trump than you think.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Tokyo 2021

Reply #19
Have you read the article footnoted in the Wikipedia page? If you do, you’ll see it doesn’t help to tie the AFL to C7.

The email it refers to is a retrospective assertion that it had helped the AFL in an unsuccessful bid to stop the AFL stripping it of the media rights. There’s no evidence that it did anything to “sufficate” soccer rather than merely giving a failing competition the level of coverage it warranted. As Masters noted, in the litigation in which the email emerged, “News Ltd's chief general counsel, Ian Philip, a member of the NRL Partnership Board, told the Federal Court last Monday he had lied to Telstra when he urged it to contribute up to $14 million to help beat a C7 bid for NRL pay TV rights”. In other words, media guys lie in order to manipulate others in negotiations. This is a truly shocking notion, isn’t it?

Nothing suggests any complicity in the suggested move. And you’d imagine if there had been, there would have been a quid pro quo arrangement to reward C7. The fact the AFL cut 7’s throat instead suggests there was nothing there.

Let’s also look at the suggestion C7 buried the NSL. As Masters notes, at the time of signing with C7 David Hill trumpeted the Channel Seven-C7 deal as an absolute lifeline for mass entertainment soccer.

Wikipedia says this of the NSL’s demise:
Quote
After the 2001 FIFA Club World Championship was cancelled, the NSL was in great turmoil. High-profile Australian players began to leave the NSL due to more enticing offers from overseas leagues.

In 1998, Soccer Australia sold the television rights for the NSL and Socceroos matches to the Seven Network in a 10-year contract that was worth $2.5 million a year. Seven bought the rights to be one of the flagships of its pay TV sport channel, C7 Sport. It also broadcast a small amount of coverage on its free-to-air network. At one point in 2000, the amount of free-to-air coverage on the NSL was only a one-hour highlights package of the NSL after midnight on Wednesdays.

In 2002, C7 Sport closed after the Seven Network lost the AFL rights and pay TV networks stopped carrying the channel. The next year, Seven severed its contract in the last week of Soccer Australia's existence. This left the NSL with no TV coverage at all until SBS picked up the rights soon after.

The consequent lack of sponsorship meant the league fell into even further decline which led to its eventual demise at the end of the 2003–04 season.
The $2.5 million a year was a lifeline for the NSL. Surely, Soccer Australia knew when signing with C7 that it was unlikely the channel with AFL rights was going to put much NSL on FTA, but Wikipedia notes it did put it on FTA to some degree. I’d say the fact Soccer Australia signed with C7 was either an act of desperation of an organisation that was already on its knees or an indication that it was deluded when it came to assessing its place in the sporting landscape (as was the NBL, as I’ll note later on).

Pay TV is content-hungry. C7 needed as much as it could get to dominate, and it was never going to cut off its own nose by warehousing NSL. Towards its demise in 2002, Wikipedia notes “C7 continued to provide its service to Optus and Austar, but its programming lineup near the end of its run was extremely weak. C7 was reduced to showing XFL games (on several weeks' delay) and live woodchopping in prime time”. After 7 lost the AFL rights in late 2000, surely it would have elevated the NSL to prime time if it thought it could put lipstick on that pig. That it didn’t tells you all you need to know, doesn’t it?

The NBL is an interesting comparison. In the 90s, it profited a lot from its association with a Channel 7. Its games played 2nd fiddle to AFL coverage but the broadcasts helped make the NBL a big drawcard. The NBL believed its own hype and decided it could become the number 1 sport by breaking away from 7. Reality then hit it in the face and it lost popularity and then collapsed. The revived NBL has been more realistic about its place in the sporting landscape.

I suggest you confine your animosity to C7 unless you find some compelling evidence. Moreover, you should blame Frank Loewe and Football Australia for killing off the NSL teams. IIRC, you were a South Melbourne Hellas fan. It was Football Australia which killed it off on the basis that it and the other power teams were too parochial to appeal to a national audience. Just as South Melbourne & Fitzroy supporters have a right to hold a grudge against the AFL, you have a right to hold a grudge against the FA.

Re: Tokyo 2021

Reply #20
Have you read the article footnoted in the Wikipedia page? If you do, you’ll see it doesn’t help to tie the AFL to C7.

The email it refers to is a retrospective assertion that it had helped the AFL in an unsuccessful bid to stop the AFL stripping it of the media rights. There’s no evidence that it did anything to “sufficate” soccer rather than merely giving a failing competition the level of coverage it warranted. As Masters noted, in the litigation in which the email emerged, “News Ltd's chief general counsel, Ian Philip, a member of the NRL Partnership Board, told the Federal Court last Monday he had lied to Telstra when he urged it to contribute up to $14 million to help beat a C7 bid for NRL pay TV rights”. In other words, media guys lie in order to manipulate others in negotiations. This is a truly shocking notion, isn’t it?

Nothing suggests any complicity in the suggested move. And you’d imagine if there had been, there would have been a quid pro quo arrangement to reward C7. The fact the AFL cut 7’s throat instead suggests there was nothing there.

Let’s also look at the suggestion C7 buried the NSL. As Masters notes, at the time of signing with C7 David Hill trumpeted the Channel Seven-C7 deal as an absolute lifeline for mass entertainment soccer.

Wikipedia says this of the NSL’s demise:The $2.5 million a year was a lifeline for the NSL. Surely, Soccer Australia knew when signing with C7 that it was unlikely the channel with AFL rights was going to put much NSL on FTA, but Wikipedia notes it did put it on FTA to some degree. I’d say the fact Soccer Australia signed with C7 was either an act of desperation of an organisation that was already on its knees or an indication that it was deluded when it came to assessing its place in the sporting landscape (as was the NBL, as I’ll note later on).

Pay TV is content-hungry. C7 needed as much as it could get to dominate, and it was never going to cut off its own nose by warehousing NSL. Towards its demise in 2002, Wikipedia notes “C7 continued to provide its service to Optus and Austar, but its programming lineup near the end of its run was extremely weak. C7 was reduced to showing XFL games (on several weeks' delay) and live woodchopping in prime time”. After 7 lost the AFL rights in late 2000, surely it would have elevated the NSL to prime time if it thought it could put lipstick on that pig. That it didn’t tells you all you need to know, doesn’t it?

The NBL is an interesting comparison. In the 90s, it profited a lot from its association with a Channel 7. Its games played 2nd fiddle to AFL coverage but the broadcasts helped make the NBL a big drawcard. The NBL believed its own hype and decided it could become the number 1 sport by breaking away from 7. Reality then hit it in the face and it lost popularity and then collapsed. The revived NBL has been more realistic about its place in the sporting landscape.

I suggest you confine your animosity to C7 unless you find some compelling evidence. Moreover, you should blame Frank Loewe and Football Australia for killing off the NSL teams. IIRC, you were a South Melbourne Hellas fan. It was Football Australia which killed it off on the basis that it and the other power teams were too parochial to appeal to a national audience. Just as South Melbourne & Fitzroy supporters have a right to hold a grudge against the AFL, you have a right to hold a grudge against the FA.
yeah no thanks.

The point being that you asserted something against soccer and have been caught out with the inverse being true.

I expect no support on an AFL football forum for any of this and your version of events is a patchwork of absolution that doesn't fit.  The media coverage wasn't there and the game going from sbs to c7 sports relegated Australian footage to Wednesday nights at midnight.  Midnight!! 

Exactly like I told you.

This isn't creative history.  You won't find an accurate recount of events that caused the issues from tart to finish.  The fact that back in the 90's the game was regarded as one that was for Sheila's wogs, and poofters tells the story better than one written with the switch to the A league front and centre of its revisionist approach to what happened.

Find the fans and they'll tell you the story.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Tokyo 2021

Reply #21
I don’t accept conspiracy theories as truth. That you and others do is disappointing but given Trump’s ability to take such theories to a new level, that’s the least of my concerns.

Re: Tokyo 2021

Reply #22
I don’t accept conspiracy theories as truth. That you and others do is disappointing but given Trump’s ability to take such theories to a new level, that’s the least of my concerns.

Conspiracy theories....  like the world game bullying afl for the world cup?  Where's your proof?  Slinging mud.  Hypocrisies.   You're worse than a Trump.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Tokyo 2021

Reply #23
Fact. The contractual conditions banning domestic sports being played were made public (leaving aside the fact that Australia’s bid pretty much commandeered all AFL venues, making it hard to play games even in the absence of those provisions). Which, getting back to the topic at long last, emphasises the invasive nature of the contracts host cities (or countries in the case of World Cup contracts) sign. To protect major sponsors, the IOC insists the host city bans visible advertising from sponsors’ competitors. Competing events are banned. Host cities are required to prohibit or severely restrict any use of public and private transport systems that might impact upon movement of Olympic spectators and dignitaries. The contracts would kill you if they fell on your head: they’re that thick. Just about everything conceivable is in there. And that’s not even including the fringe benefits to IOC committee members.

Re: Tokyo 2021

Reply #24
You'd be floored by what SOCOG put on the table for the 2000 Olympic Torch Relay.  The sheer arrogance of nobodies throwing their weight around.