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Re: Review

Reply #510 –
Quote from: DJC – on
The whole team is confused EB. 

I don’t accept that our list is rubbish or that there’s a cultural problem.  We’re not challenging for the eight because our selectors are influenced more by what’s good for boosting membership numbers and protecting reputations than winning games.  How else does Jack Martin get games?
I've been arguing this for some time and get howled down, some even casting racism aspersions. But exclude one good debut game and his stats are softer than LoB.
"Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck ....... Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck"

Re: Review

Reply #511 –
Quote from: DJC – on
The whole team is confused EB. 

I don’t accept that our list is rubbish or that there’s a cultural problem.  We’re not challenging for the eight because our selectors are influenced more by what’s good for boosting membership numbers and protecting reputations than winning games.  How else does Jack Martin get games?

The coach needs to lift his game at pressers, admit that his gameplan isn’t working, tweak it where possible, and insist that team selection is based on merit.

The coach deserves nothing more than what he and his assistants put into the team and I think that Teague has a way to go before he can expect his team to match it with the better sides.

Take last week’s game; our best player was subjected to a hard tag and had no influence at all until he was moved to the wing for the last quarter.  It’s not the players’ fault that the coaches haven’t anticipated the hard tag and come up with tactics to defeat it.

The coach gets what he deserves and he needs to lift his game.



Yep.

The question I ask myself is how come The TT is only now throwing around the word 'passion'? How come we're only now playing with vigour, commitment, defensive intent and passion? Where was this round 1 to kick off the season with? Where was this round 2 when we were coming off a loss and playing a traditional rival? Where was this against a decimated Weagles, a struggling GWS? How come only now are we waking up to the truism of probably the number 1 attitude you want your blokes to play with - passion, ruthless intent, etc? The best strategies in the world won't work without these inner fires burning and motivating blokes. How come only now are we beginning to be not so nice? These are the things I suspect the review will answer.

Until only recently we've not played with enough passion or respect for the defensive side of the game. The Pussycats will sure test how fair-dinkum our passion is this weekend.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Review

Reply #512 –
Hard to play with passion when you are turning it over too much, it's demoralising.

It takes a lot of experience to be able to let go of your mistakes and remain positive, we don't have anywhere near that level of experience yet. It's probably the main reason to persist with guys like Betts and sMurph, because they can impart some perspective and resilience on the kids. I think Jones improvement is in part due to this accumulation of age based experience, you can communicate it but you can't reallly teach it, players have to learn to recognise it in their own game. Cripps still doesn't have it, you can see in the way he panics with the football that he is yet to deal with the accumulated pressure of mistakes. Walsh is an exception, he had this from day one, Weitering is just starting to to get hold of the concept now.

The bad thing from a team perspective, is that the negativity can be contagious, it takes a deliberate concerted effort to block out those thoughts and get on with the next contest.
"Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck ....... Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck"

Re: Review

Reply #513 –
I'll ask the question, and I'm not sure I really know  the answer...but are we playing  a lot differently to the way we were playing  before  the bye?
 Some of the same lapses and mistakes are still there. Is it the fact that we're  winning means that we're  witnessing what looks like a rise in confidence and passion. If Freo had run over the top of us I suspect we'd  be seeing things in a vastly different  light. As Kruddler's been pointing out for some time, when we start playing teams around us rather than teams above us the wins are coming with pretty much the same play (and issues) that were part of our pre-bye games.

Re: Review

Reply #514 –
Quote from: Lods – on
I'll ask the question, and I'm not sure I really know  the answer...but are we playing  a lot differently to the way we were playing  before  the bye?
 Some of the same lapses and mistakes are still there. Is it the fact that we're  winning means that we're  witnessing what looks like a rise in confidence and passion. If Freo had run over the top of us I suspect we'd  be seeing things in a vastly different  light. As Kruddler's been pointing out for some time, when we start playing teams around us rather than teams above us the wins are coming with pretty much the same play (and issues) that were part of our pre-bye games.
To me, it seems the defenders are playing a lot closer to their man. Our defenders also dont seem to be getting isolated as much, players come across at the right time and help (eg Stocker filling the hole of a Lobb lead when he had Weiters beaten). Both Jones and Weiters also have the balance right between punching/spoiling and marking.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Review

Reply #515 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
To me, it seems the defenders are playing a lot closer to their man. Our defenders also dont seem to be getting isolated as much, players come across at the right time and help (eg Stocker filling the hole of a Lobb lead when he had Weiters beaten). Both Jones and Weiters also have the balance right between punching/spoiling and marking.

Yep
I'd agree they looked more organised and definitely more supportive.
Jones (apart from a few lapses) and Weitering (outstanding) have been very good for us the last few weeks. Stocker now looks like he really belongs.
So to the next question....Is that because there has been much less pressure the last few weeks.
With less pressure you have more time to get organised and hold structures.
When  the Freo midfield got on top things suddenly didn't look as settled.
Extending it further....would players like Dow and Kennedy have been able to make the same contribution if they were playing against the Bulldogs mid-field?

I guess the point I'm getting at is, maybe we weren't as bad as we thought earlier in the season, but a few wins might have us thinking we're a little better than we really are, and skill issues and lapses aren't the issues they were.

The quality of the opposition is a huge variable.
This weeks game may tell a story.

Re: Review

Reply #516 –
I'm not the sure the defenders have changed much, but the mids and onballers certainly have, which leaves less space for the defenders to cover so the whole D50 setup looks more compressed and stable.

The result of the reduced space is that you also see Jones and Weitering involved in more contested marks and less clean intercepts, but that also reduces the oppositions easy targets from turnovers. While Weiters and Jones are marking the way they are it's a good setup, but start losing contested marks and it won't seem so good. This week against Hawkins is a huge test.

Last weekend, all three of Weiters, Jones and Plowman took some ridiculously good defensive contested marks, the Freo coach would be livid, we might not see things so easy against the Handbaggers.
"Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck ....... Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck"

Re: Review

Reply #518 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
David King reckons he is seeing a shift in how our defence works post bye :

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/07/04/david-teague-deserves-endorsement-for-post-bye-defensive-shift/
It's his way to publish an "I told you so!", "If only they had listened to me sooner!" and "I'm a genius give me a pay rise!"

The AFL Expert commentary version of fortune telling.
"Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck ....... Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck"

Re: Review

Reply #519 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
David King reckons he is seeing a shift in how our defence works post bye :

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/07/04/david-teague-deserves-endorsement-for-post-bye-defensive-shift/
There you go
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Review

Reply #520 –
Plans???or accidental....look at the personnel vs Freo.....no Docherty fumbling and only one kick chasing rebounder.
IMHO it shows we are better off without Docherty and Williams down back and both Newman and Williamson should retain their positions. Stocker does stick close and adds that hardness, maybe the other two can play on the wings and enjoy the freedom to roam and be at their best without having to stick to close to an opponent.

Re: Review

Reply #521 –
Quote from: Lods – on
I'll ask the question, and I'm not sure I really know  the answer...but are we playing  a lot differently to the way we were playing  before  the bye?
 Some of the same lapses and mistakes are still there. Is it the fact that we're  winning means that we're  witnessing what looks like a rise in confidence and passion. If Freo had run over the top of us I suspect we'd  be seeing things in a vastly different  light. As Kruddler's been pointing out for some time, when we start playing teams around us rather than teams above us the wins are coming with pretty much the same play (and issues) that were part of our pre-bye games.

Obviously you know my point of view on the matter.
Play worse teams, get better results. Not just because they are a worse team, but because it gives us a boost in confidence as well.

Having said that, i made a comment in the in-game thread during the last game that we seemed to be playing a chip and mark game a bit towards the end of quarters. Basically trying to limit being scored against in red time.
I don't know if it was simply because we were winning, but its not something i've noticed before.
We seemed a little more deliberate when trying to go forward too. Chip+mark, wait for an opportunity rather than bomb long.

Perhaps that was a team specific thing. Perhaps it was simply a different type of game management that we havn't been in a position to use much. Perhaps it was different personnel playing differently. Its too small of a sample size to make any definitive calls.

Ultimately, i think the biggest variable though is the opposition. Other things help/hinder, but are dwarfed by the quality of the opposition. Sometimes we are simply not good enough. Sometimes we are.
 

Re: Review

Reply #522 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Plans???or accidental....look at the personnel vs Freo.....no Docherty fumbling and only one kick chasing rebounder.
IMHO it shows we are better off without Docherty and Williams down back and both Newman and Williamson should retain their positions. Stocker does stick close and adds that hardness, maybe the other two can play on the wings and enjoy the freedom to roam and be at their best without having to stick to close to an opponent.

Playing to players strengths will help. Tweak of the game plan and strategy will help. Figuring out if we recruited to best suit the team will be a question. Along with team selection, and game day coaching moves. I still hope this review runs deep and asking questions everywhere. We need to fix as many problems as possible. We need to see where we have problems to fix things. The remainder of the season might tell us something.
This digital world is too much for us insects to understand.

Re: Review

Reply #523 –
Its probably a combination of all the things, but let's not forget Teague has just rounded 2 years as senior coach.

Hypothetically the game plan has had to change with the rules which means we are simply getting better at what we are doing IMHO.

We still make mistakes but thats going to happen.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Review

Reply #524 –
Last year, in Teague’s first real go at it, there were very limited opportunities to drill, practice and reinforce game plans as a group. Teams who were well drilled prior to lockdown like Richmond, Geelong, West Coast had a significant advantage. Then we add a couple of important pieces of the jigsaw that needed game time for them and the team to work out how best to use them. They and the team are becoming more comfortable by the week. Good signs…