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Topic: Pandemic Management bill. Health and well-being Act 2021. (Read 45070 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Pandemic Management bill. Health and well-being Act 2021.

Reply #75 –
.... and the toll on all of us continues

Re: Pandemic Management bill. Health and well-being Act 2021.

Reply #76 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
I know a couple of people in the medical fraternity who are dead against mandatory vaccination and sceptical of being vaccinated at all. I am fully vaccinated and I struggle to understand them, as it sounds like they are acting from a deep conviction rather than from any actual evidence evaluation or risk assessment.

I think its tricky to know unless you get up close and personal with how these places actually operate (particularly during the pandemic).

As someone who has worked at 2 different health services in Melbourne, and has seen the nature of how these places are governed, what happens in regards to accreditation, their requirements, and the mountain of work that people go through to tick the boxes at the final moments, rather than implementing proper processes to meet those requirements more frequently, it starts to become clearer.

That and the fact that people seem to think that the political and CHO response is above criticism.  Its entirely possible that not everyone in the medical fraternity is in agreement from top to bottom, and some of these people possibly know more than the lay person.

I decided a long time ago, that I dont know enough about all of this to really have a good grasp on whats required or not, and one thing I did realise, that if people in the know are skeptical, then people outside of the know, have every right to be which tells a story in itself.

Are things happening in the public goods best interest or not, seems to be subjective, which is a worry of itself.







"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson
 

Re: Pandemic Management bill. Health and well-being Act 2021.

Reply #77 –
@Thry

We live in an age of propaganda, fake news, double speak and downright lies. Getting at the truth is often not that easy.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Pandemic Management bill. Health and well-being Act 2021.

Reply #78 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
@Thry

We live in an age of propaganda, fake news, double speak and downright lies. Getting at the truth is often not that easy.
Then you add in confirmation bias and motivated reasoning and all sorts of weird shizen seems to fall into place for those susceptible to influence, which is basically all of us in one forum or another!

It's tough has hell for anybody to find the absolute truth, but what you can do far more easily and often just by some careful consideration, is find out what isn't the truth!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Pandemic Management bill. Health and well-being Act 2021.

Reply #79 –
Quote from: LP – on
Then you add in confirmation bias and motivated reasoning and all sorts of weird shizen seems to fall into place for those susceptible to influence, which is basically all of us in one forum or another!

It's tough has hell for anybody to find the absolute truth, but what you can do far more easily and often just by some careful consideration, is find out what isn't the truth!

While we’re  doing that we just have to be careful the truth doesn’t come and bite us on the ar$e.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Pandemic Management bill. Health and well-being Act 2021.

Reply #80 –
Truth. ::)
Insert Col. Jessup speech here. ;)  ;D

The problem with the pandemic is that the usual rules have gone out the window.
And I don't think they're coming back.
It's changed us all in ways we probably don't realise just yet.
Normally reasonable folks  have become zealots...and that's on both sides of the debate.
Tolerance and understanding of the beliefs of others have morphed into black and white.
"You're either 'with us or against us', and don't bother explaining why you've taken the course of getting vaccinated or not getting vaccinated, because I'm not interested".

Conspiracy theories abound and like minded folk seek comfort and support with those who think the same way.
Opportunist politicians are falling over themselves to attract support from a range of extreme views.
The usual suspects are out in force.

State premiers are building their own little fiefdoms based on separating themselves from the rest of the country.
Elections are being won on the basis of such isolation.

It's obvious vaccinations are having a positive impact but they're not the 100% answer, and transmission seems to be spiking again in the North.
Could it lead to a new variant?
...and would a new vaccine resistant variant render vaccinations as useless as tits on a bull?

I'm not sure it is such an easy task to separate fact from fiction.
You can find whatever you want on the internet, and for most folks determining the 'good and the bad' information is not an easy task.
A lot of folks don't know their 'Mayo clinic' from their 'lettuce and mayo' sandwich.

We can only operate at best with the most recent advice.
But that's only ever the 'best advice at the time.'
And you have to think that in with the best medical advice there are decisions that are made by leaders with one eye on the politics.
For the moment the advice is  get vaccinated, but still maintain all the usual safety measures.
It's possible though that a in a few months there will be anti-virals that render the vaccination a less important factor in the fight.

If we think we know 'fck everything' about this virus, the truth is we actually know 'fck all' about where it will finish up down the track.

Re: Pandemic Management bill. Health and well-being Act 2021.

Reply #81 –
Another classic post @Lods :)

Re: Pandemic Management bill. Health and well-being Act 2021.

Reply #82 –
Well said Lods. The more we think we have seen, heard or read, the less we actually understand. We think we do but we probably don’t. This along with the agenda based choices offered by the politicians in power that drives people against people. Vaccinated vs unvaccinated, State vs state, friends and families having conflicts over opinions. Bills that are shoved or an attempt to shove them through the Senate, lower house, upper house etc. State and federal government on completely different pages of the story. How is this a theory that we are all in this together? Walk in my Kmart $30 shoes instead of some Italian made $300 shoes and then we are in this thing together. Not to forget wage differences. All this aside, the government will continue to feed the masses with their medical research, statistics, and advice based on needs of health and well-being for all in the community. Divisions will continue to grow in the community. We could see what happens in countries in Europe when protesting goes pear shaped. I hope it never happens here, but it eventually could. People should never fight against their own. It is un-Australian. Isn’t that a term Scomo used against toilet paper hoarders? What a stupid problem that was as an experience. Toilet paper shortage on supermarket shelves. Never ever thought I would see that problem coming.
This digital world is too much for us insects to understand.

Re: Pandemic Management bill. Health and well-being Act 2021.

Reply #83 –
Stick with the science and math while ignoring opinion, it's the subjectivity of humans that leads people astray not the laws of nature!

It's no accident the most confronting and confusing debates around the pandemic are built on politicians and lawyers.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Pandemic Management bill. Health and well-being Act 2021.

Reply #84 –
One look at Germany should be enough ... deaths spiralling and over 30% unvaccinated.

Re: Pandemic Management bill. Health and well-being Act 2021.

Reply #85 –
Quote from: capcom – on
One look at Germany should be enough ... deaths spiralling and over 30% unvaccinated.
Brazil, India, Cairo, Sth Africa, Turkey, etc., etc., etc..

All locations subject to whacko laws, dodgy corporate dealings and unfounded social media frenzy, I see the distrust over some of the pandemic legislation as just another foible of human society. Fundamentally, what is being asked for by the protestors, is the right to continue to do whatever the like whenever they like while putting others at risk! They do so because a very very small part of the legislation is potentially untested and a risk to some liberty, so they want the whole lot discarded. Can we paint them by the same rule of thumb?

Germany is peculiar, given it still has a very high percentage of youth who now self describe as socialists(I suppose if you go back 80 years and they would be fascists), some of whom also want the Nazis reframed as a socialist movement. I mentioned before there is a horrendous undercurrent in the anti-vax movement to paint distrust in vaccines throughout the 3rd world, because they want them to suffer. I suspect to remain consistent with that strategy they also have to preserve the freedom to spread the virus. Perhaps they see themselves as the fittest survivor! Do they think Cortés is a hero for spreading the smallpox through the new world?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Pandemic Management bill. Health and well-being Act 2021.

Reply #86 –
Quote from: LP – on
Brazil, India, Cairo, Sth Africa, Turkey, etc., etc., etc..

If we're to believe the numbers, Germany has exploded, the others you mentioned have most certainly not.  In fact the reverse.

Re: Pandemic Management bill. Health and well-being Act 2021.

Reply #87 –
Quote from: capcom – on
If we're to believe the numbers, Germany has exploded, the others you mentioned have most certainly not.  In fact the reverse.
It's the same series of pandemic events happening at different times at different locations, not all 'happening now' is the same!

The virus and it's remedies are slow moving messages that flow around the globe at walking pace occasionally jumping ahead of their natural progress courtesy of a plane flight or a bus ride!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Pandemic Management bill. Health and well-being Act 2021.

Reply #88 –
An interesting observation I've heard about the pandemic laws being introduced around the country, ignoring the fact they should be Federal and not State based.

The pandemic laws are framed in the context of what might need to happen if we had no vaccines and no remedies, while the protests frame an argument in relation to an environment that is a result of vaccines and remedies.

The protests basically use the resulting success of vaccines and remedies to argue we don't need vaccines and remedies.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Pandemic Management bill. Health and well-being Act 2021.

Reply #89 –
Quote from: LP – on
An interesting observation I've heard about the pandemic laws being introduced around the country, ignoring the fact they should be Federal and not State based.

The pandemic laws are framed in the context of what might need to happen if we had no vaccines and no remedies, while the protests frame an argument in relation to an environment that is a result of vaccines and remedies.

The protests basically use the resulting success of vaccines and remedies to argue we don't need vaccines and remedies.
The Pandemic laws are State-based since it is the State Governments that control the on-the-ground health systems.  And therein lies a fundamental problem we have with healthcare in this country - we pay the Feds via Medicare taxation, who then (supposedly) distribute it to the various State coffers.  All it does is offer the two levels of Government the chance to blame each other for the times where our healthcare system falls short.
This is now the longest premiership drought in the history of the Carlton Football Club - more evidence of climate change?