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Re: Harry and Megan

Reply #105 –
Quote from: Lods – on
But how does Meghan play amongst the average older female.

My sister reckons Harry's a traitor and should be sent to the Tower (No, she doesn't want him beheaded  ::)  ;D )
Yes she is not alone, and these people are silent in the debate because they aren't generally active on the internet, but they'll read Clarkson like columns in a newspaper.

Harkle's demographic lives in an echo chamber, and it's not one that puts a high price on many old world values.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Harry and Megan

Reply #106 –
Not much commentary on the Ardern statement coming from the Harkle boosters, just going to let that slide are we?

Wasn't there a book titled appropriately about this very issue, something like "An Inconvenient Truth!"
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Harry and Megan

Reply #107 –
Quote from: Macca37 – on
I agree with you. After several visits on business to England between 2010 and 2018 I became quite aware that elements of xenophobia and racial superiority were very close to the surface among the people we met.  When you add in Meghan's colour , she was in for a hiding from the media at the first opportunity.

I think this attitude has been a part of English culture for a long time, and it's been amplified and given additional licence in the bifurcated media landscape that was pretty much invented by Murdoch. It comes as no surprise that most of the attack dog tactics against Markle come from the Fox / Sky stable.

Re: Harry and Megan

Reply #108 –
OK, so let’s break it down
"Old, male, white, conservatives are the problem".
They don’t like Harry and more specifically Meghan.

We can give the ‘Old’ a tickoff. They are mostly not in their camp…but let’s extend it to the middle-aged and older.

They have the support of the young, that’s a given

I’m not convinced gender plays an important part, in fact I think that amongst the older group women are more critical, and men don’t give them a great deal of thought…but I’ll stand corrected if that proves not to be the case in future polling. It’s a view very much framed amongst my own circle of friends and family and reading social media and news article comments.

Conservative v Labour is another given, but we know that will always break down in terms of monarchy/anti monarchy beliefs.

Racism is cited as a key factor. What has me confused is that if it was an important element then why did it take a year or two to turn things around. Meghan was hugely popular in those early days. Did folk not realise Meghan was black. I thought Charles walking Mum down the aisle would have been a giveaway. There may be some racial aspect, but it would exist at a very minor level in the greater scheme of things, and in those few entrenched who weren’t fond of Meg from the start. That’s not to say it may not have been a more important factor with some members of the extended Royal family.

I suspect the truth of the anti Meg and Harry feeling is as simple as the old “Yoko Ono effect”.
Yes, there may have been a racial aspect to that one too for a section of critics, but the main focus was to most people, rightly or wrongly, "Yoko broke up the Band”.

Same with Meg. Her arrival resulted in a rift between brothers and family. When one member leaves the band there is usually going to be a bit of shouting.
Now they can all go their separate ways and still make ‘some pretty good music’ on both sides, but it will never be quite the same.

What we’ve had from Meghan and Harry is their version. Some have accepted that without question. It’s unlikely we’ll get a formal rebuttal from the palace. That may come through some of their minions in the press, but into that void folks are pretty much free to make up their own minds.
Harry and Meghan look to have some good intentions for lots of positive work away from the Royal family. That’s to their credit. They also need to make a living and they’re high profile enough to earn a good income. They certainly won’t be in the 'poor house' after their various Netflix and book deals, but while that coincides with attacks on the Royal family there will always be criticism.

Re: Harry and Megan

Reply #110 –
Quote from: Lods – on
...........................

Racism is cited as a key factor. What has me confused is that if it was an important element then why did it take a year or two to turn things around. Meghan was hugely popular in those early days. Did folk not realise Meghan was black. I thought Charles walking Mum down the aisle would have been a giveaway. There may be some racial aspect, but it would exist at a very minor level in the greater scheme of things, and in those few entrenched who weren’t fond of Meg from the start. That’s not to say it may not have been a more important factor with some members of the extended Royal family.

I suspect the truth of the anti Meg and Harry feeling is as simple as the old “Yoko Ono effect”.
Yes, there may have been a racial aspect to that one too for a section of critics, but the main focus was to most people, rightly or wrongly, "Yoko broke up the Band”.


The change in mood is a top down effect. Meghan started popular because Murdoch knows that "build em up and tear em down" is a very successful business model. 

And as for Yoko, you may have noticed that in her and Markle's cases, the men are generally off the hook, and the women are to blame. Despite the fact that both Harry and Lennon are both educated, successful grown men, have a proven track record of making important decisions, and just generally acting like mature adults, and probably had women offering themselves 24/7 - but apparently all that goes out the window when it suits the argument, at which point they become "merely male", and unable to resist the charms of evil, shameless, opportunistic manipulative women. This narrative is crystal clear in both stories. Lennon and Harry are quite capable of deciding for themselves.

Re: Harry and Megan

Reply #111 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
The change in mood is a top down effect. Meghan started popular because Murdoch knows that "build em up and tear em down" is a very successful business model. 

And as for Yoko, you may have noticed that in her and Markle's cases, the men are generally off the hook, and the women are to blame. Despite the fact that both Harry and Lennon are both educated, successful grown men, have a proven track record of making important decisions, and just generally acting like mature adults, and probably had women offering themselves 24/7 - but apparently all that goes out the window when it suits the argument, at which point they become "merely male", and unable to resist the charms of evil, shameless, opportunistic manipulative women. This narrative is crystal clear in both stories. Lennon and Harry are quite capable of deciding for themselves.


They are and they did.
And no-one doubts that they are strong men.
It's the same with Meghan and Yoko, who are strong, assertive women.

The point is that folks are giving all sorts of different reasons why people don't like Meghan including race, gender, age when the real reason is probably the simple and most obvious.
She's had a strong and assertive, but also disruptive impact on an institution lots of people like.

Re: Harry and Megan

Reply #112 –
Sometimes life is just luck, luck of the draw, luck in the timing, being in a lucky place, look at poor Kate, can't run, polite, quiet, doesn't debate private issue on social media, and if things couldn't get any worse for her she was born caucasian, what chance did she have so disadvantaged?

Are we surprised at all she has turned out to be evil incarnate?

Maybe if she gets a regular slot on Oprah she can turn things around!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Harry and Megan

Reply #113 –
Quote from: DJC – on
My favourite comedian was Bill Cosby … but he turned to be an entitled, sick, rapist bastard 🙄

Cosby was also one of my faves... love the dentist skit, I laughed till it hurt. My all time fave is probably George Carlin.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Harry and Megan

Reply #114 –
Quote from: Lods – on
They are and they did.
And no-one doubts that they are strong men.
It's the same with Meghan and Yoko, who are strong, assertive women.

The point is that folks are giving all sorts of different reasons why people don't like Meghan including race, gender, age when the real reason is probably the simple and most obvious.
She's had a strong and assertive, but also disruptive impact on an institution lots of people like.

They, not she. "They've had a strong and assertive, but also disruptive impact on an institution lots of people like." They made the decision together. It's not her impact, it's their impact. Men have to accept responsibility too.

Re: Harry and Megan

Reply #115 –
Quote from: Lods – on
The point is that folks are giving all sorts of different reasons why people don't like Meghan including race, gender, age when the real reason is probably the simple and most obvious.

She's had a strong and assertive, but also disruptive impact on an institution lots of people like.
There is such irony that this is most hotly debated in social media over mainstream media.

If a politician got up and stated the things some of these social media celebrity types state, then compounded things by acting in such a contradictory manner, the media coverage would be ten fold what these "poor beleaguered celebrities" suffer. They wouldn't just be on the front page, they would be the front page!

Can you imagine if Kamala Harris asked for privacy and respect from the media, then sold her story as an Oprah exclusive?

But in reality, when the celebrity complaints about being pestered by the media start to get more coverage than the celebrity, it must burn them because it's a media dead end. They are going to have to go to another level to find coverage!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Harry and Megan

Reply #116 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Cosby was also one of my faves... love the dentist skit, I laughed till it hurt. My all time fave is probably George Carlin.
You won't be surprised at all to find my favourite is from the darker side, Bill Hicks, something like Arizona Bay!
 
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Harry and Megan

Reply #117 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
They, not she. "They've had a strong and assertive, but also disruptive impact on an institution lots of people like." They made the decision together. It's not her impact, it's their impact. Men have to accept responsibility too.

Yes.
It was a decision they made together.
And he's not off the hook.
My sister wants him in the Tower.

But look at it from this perspective.
Harry was a part of the family.
Meghan's arrival on the scene meant that situation now no longer exists.
He's estranged.
If she hadn't come along there's every chance Harry would still be part of the family.
He may be perfectly happy.
You would have to think that there are some aspects of that breakdown in connection that makes him a little sad.
It's that breakdown that has upset people.
But he's made his choice and stands strongly with his wife.







Re: Harry and Megan

Reply #118 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Yes.
It was a decision they made together.
And he's not off the hook.
My sister wants him in the Tower.

But look at it from this perspective.
Harry was a part of the family.
Meghan's arrival on the scene meant that situation now no longer exists.
He's estranged.
If she hadn't come along there's every chance Harry would still be part of the family.
He may be perfectly happy.
You would have to think that there are some aspects of that breakdown in connection that makes him a little sad.
It's that breakdown that has upset people.
But he's made his choice and stands strongly with his wife.

Observing as I do from a great distance, I'd suggest these ideas have been fermenting in Harry's mind before Meghan. I doubt she was the one who planted them and told him to pack his bags.  If they are indeed a team, they would have discussed, fleshed out, weighed up pros and cons etc. There has to be solid reasons for them leaving, because i can't think of too many advantages for them.

Re: Harry and Megan

Reply #119 –
Quote from: LP – on
Not much commentary on the Ardern statement coming from the Harkle boosters, just going to let that slide are we?

Wasn't there a book titled appropriately about this very issue, something like "An Inconvenient Truth!"

Mmm, I suspect you may believe that because of this little black duck's opinions on the Harry/Meghan/media/Royal Family situation you've decided to label me a 'booster' for Harry and Meghan... nuh. For clarity, it's actually not about them as individuals, or any perceived affection you think I have for them... nuh, I have a passion for their rights to be treated fairly and to value their efforts to help others, their rights to live their life of service together without unreasonable constraint, vulgar condemnation, lies and crass belittlement on a deeply personal level. Many decades ago I got a tattoo on my left lower leg, a quote from Martin Luther King jr., "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." A principle I hold dear, a guiding light for my own life if you will.

As for Ardern, I see clearly that she is under political pressure at present -- indeed fighting for her political life -- and her distancing from this entire episode is just politics, not wanting to ruffle feathers and potentially lose a section of her supporter base. Disappointing perhaps, but appearing to not have a dog in this fight is strategically understandable.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17