Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: It wouldn't surprise me if.... (Read 7357 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....

Reply #15 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
More of a given, you add can add Martin to that list....
The players on our list who absolutely cannot be relied upon are:
Cunningham
Marchbank
McGovern
Martin
Williams
They will miss large chunks of every single year ear without fail, nothing surer. Do what I do, pretend they are not on our list and don't include them in your thinking.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....

Reply #16 –
Agreed GTC....Marchbank certainly has shown potential but has played something like 50 games in 8 seasons on an AFL list. Not sure if it's his body or if he's just damn unlucky....in which case we have a lot of very unlucky players on our list.

Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....

Reply #17 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
The players on our list who absolutely cannot be relied upon are:
Cunningham
Marchbank
McGovern
Martin
Williams
They will miss large chunks of every single year ear without fail, nothing surer. Do what I do, pretend they are not on our list and don't include them in your thinking.

A sad reality thus far. What hurts even more is that each of them, on his day, is a bloody ripper.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....

Reply #18 –
Fitness is like sobriety, you're only fit 1 day at a time.

To condemn someone on the basis of past injury is foolish to my eyes but I also understand that at some point a decision must be made on cutting your losses.
You wont get all of those decisions right and some may hurt more than others when you do get it wrong.
Let’s go BIG !

Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....

Reply #19 –
It wouldn't surprise me if we have a so so year and miss finals with all the heat on voss and then we win a flag in 2024.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....

Reply #20 –
Quote from: northernblue – on
Fitness is like sobriety, you're only fit 1 day at a time.

To condemn someone on the basis of past injury is foolish to my eyes but I also understand that at some point a decision must be made on cutting your losses.
You wont get all of those decisions right and some may hurt more than others when you do get it wrong.
Unfortunately NB, you have Marchbank, Martin, McGovern and Williams as the 4 horseman of the injury apocalypse that has beset the club over the past few years and we only have ourselves to blame by recruiting them. They came to us with poor injury records and nothing has really changed. Cuningham was recruited as a kid so I put that down to bad luck rather than bad management but
I think that some point you talk about has arrived for a few of those players and Voss should have been a bit more ruthless and probably cut a couple Imho before they all end up dragging him down by not having a settled lineup most weeks.

Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....

Reply #21 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Unfortunately NB, you have Marchbank, Martin, McGovern and Williams as the 4 horseman of the injury apocalypse that has beset the club over the past few years and we only have ourselves to blame by recruiting them. They came to us with poor injury records and nothing has really changed. Cuningham was recruited as a kid so I put that down to bad luck rather than bad management but
I think that some point you talk about has arrived for a few of those players and Voss should have been a bit more ruthless and probably cut a couple Imho before they all end up dragging him down by not having a settled lineup most weeks.
Whilst I agree EB and have said as much, I can see why Voss hasn't wielded too big an axe. By wielding said big axe as a newby, you can quicly get alot of people off side.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....

Reply #22 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Whilst I agree EB and have said as much, I can see why Voss hasn't wielded too big an axe. By wielding said big axe as a newby, you can quicly get alot of people off side.
Take your point GTC but I think when you first arrive is the time to wield the axe and set the club on the direction you want, set some standards and get players in who can survive the rigours/requirements of the modern game.
I would have cut Cuningham and probably Marchbank with the view to replacing the latter with Tyreece Leiu on the rookie list.
Its professional sport and you have to make tough decisions and the club have been more than fair and reasonable with those players mentioned...

Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....

Reply #23 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Unfortunately NB, you have Marchbank, Martin, McGovern and Williams as the 4 horseman of the injury apocalypse that has beset the club over the past few years and we only have ourselves to blame by recruiting them. They came to us with poor injury records and nothing has really changed. Cuningham was recruited as a kid so I put that down to bad luck rather than bad management but
I think that some point you talk about has arrived for a few of those players and Voss should have been a bit more ruthless and probably cut a couple Imho before they all end up dragging him down by not having a settled lineup most weeks.

Lucky for Charlie you’re not in charge isn’t it ?
🤣
But I totally agree with you and the club, those guys know full well they are under the pump, it doesn’t really help them but they know it.
Let’s go BIG !

Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....

Reply #24 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Take your point GTC but I think when you first arrive is the time to wield the axe and set the club on the direction you want, set some standards and get players in who can survive the rigours/requirements of the modern game.
I would have cut Cuningham and probably Marchbank with the view to replacing the latter with Tyreece Leiu on the rookie list.
Its professional sport and you have to make tough decisions and the club have been more than fair and reasonable with those players mentioned...

And that is exactly what Vossy has done; moved on those who don't meet his standards but he has shown faith in those who work hard but may have had some bad luck in the past; Charlie Curnow being a prime example.  Many folk here were convinced that Charlie wouldn't play again or, at best, would be a shadow of his former self.  Showing faith in Docherty, Charlie, Marchy, Cuners, Gov, Ed, Martin, et al goes a long way towards getting the playing group on side and, if they come good, they're automatically in the best 22.

I'm disappointed that we couldn't find a place for Lieu, but I'd be kidding myself if I thought that he could fit into our defence as seamlessly as Marchy did at the end of last season.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....

Reply #25 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Unfortunately NB, you have Marchbank, Martin, McGovern and Williams as the 4 horseman of the injury apocalypse that has beset the club over the past few years and we only have ourselves to blame by recruiting them. They came to us with poor injury records and nothing has really changed. Cuningham was recruited as a kid so I put that down to bad luck rather than bad management but
I think that some point you talk about has arrived for a few of those players and Voss should have been a bit more ruthless and probably cut a couple Imho before they all end up dragging him down by not having a settled lineup most weeks.

Agree with you.  I am sure that any of the top four sides, with far deeper lists than we have, would have cut these players long ago.

Unfortunately, it seems we still operate with the mindset of a club that had almost pariah status as a destination club for many years.

Equally unfortunate is the fact that these players continual injuries exposed the lack of depth of our lists and consequently we have had to play far too many C graders week in week out.  With other clubs players of this standard would be lucky to make it out of the VFL.



Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....

Reply #26 –
Quote from: Macca37 – on
Agree with you.  I am sure that any of the top four sides, with far deeper lists than we have, would have cut these players long ago.

Unfortunately, it seems we still operate with the mindset of a club that had almost pariah status as a destination club for many years.

Equally unfortunate is the fact that these players continual injuries exposed the lack of depth of our lists and consequently we have had to play far too many C graders week in week out.  With other clubs players of this standard would be lucky to make it out of the VFL.





Yeah, you’re right.
Let’s just hand in the keys, can you hit the light switch ?
🙄
Let’s go BIG !

Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....

Reply #27 –
Quote from: DJC – on
And that is exactly what Vossy has done; moved on those who don't meet his standards but he has shown faith in those who work hard but may have had some bad luck in the past; Charlie Curnow being a prime example.  Many folk here were convinced that Charlie wouldn't play again or, at best, would be a shadow of his former self.  Showing faith in Docherty, Charlie, Marchy, Cuners, Gov, Ed, Martin, et al goes a long way towards getting the playing group on side and, if they come good, they're automatically in the best 22.

I'm disappointed that we couldn't find a place for Lieu, but I'd be kidding myself if I thought that he could fit into our defence as seamlessly as Marchy did at the end of last season.
Docherty and Charlie are a different case to the others...Doc for obvious illness reasons and Charlie who is an exceptional talent laid low by separate knee issues that turned into a extensive lay off and asked more questions about our rehab operations.
Martin, Williams, Marchbank and McGovern are serial injury cases who have also underachieved when they have played imo unlike Doc and Charlie who have been outstanding players when injury free and in Docs case very inspirational .
I get you give players you believe in some more time to recover and it creates harmony in the group but the reality is there is an expiry date when that time runs out and you need to move on from players who cant deliver in a consistent fashion.
The reality is that when Martin, Williams, McGovern and Marchbank play they are nothing special imho.....Martins best game was his first and he has played the odd good quarter or two since. That was his form at Gold Coast, yep he has talent  and gives you the odd highlight but I wouldnt be re-contracting him.
Williams came to us with a history of Achilles issues but has now added an ACL...unlucky...probably but we knew what we were getting. Play midfield was the plan, but with no endurance that was a failed plan from day 1 and given his Achilles history another Dr Phil moment in terms of WTF were we thinking?
McGovern....see Martin...another fail in his chosen role as a forward and out of desperation and embarrassment was thrown down back...whats the old saying " mugs to the backline"....he did look better when he managed to get on the park and had less responsibility as that intercept running defender and like Martin has a good skillset but in terms of bang for buck has been another  fail. The list has changed and we now have a few intercept defender types  and Id be more interested in developing them than backing McGovern to play the majority of the season.
Marchbank....nice bloke is Caleb and along with Lee Walker one of the most unlucky players to have graced the footy field I have seen but the club have been generous and sympathetic in terms of patience and understanding but its reached that point where all parties need to accept its over.
Cuningham has been unlucky and 6 seasons for 40 odd games is a sad result for a talented young player cut down in his prime years. I really like his skillset and what he offers in the modern game and fit I would pick him in my best 22 but the odds of that happening are very unlikely and we need a fitter version of what his best is and I would have had that same conversation as we should have had with Marchbank.
Another season has rolled around and surprise surprise the usual names are missing and on the injury list......it puts more pressure on Voss having so many iffy players and he deserves a more robust and deeper list to achieve the high expectations that have been placed on him.

Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....

Reply #28 –
Just a reminder, that besides cancer, Doc did his knee.....twice.

Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....

Reply #29 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Just a reminder, that besides cancer, Doc did his knee.....twice.
Fair point...I didnt mention the knees but I think the two bouts of testicular cancer probably stick in my head more when thinking about the inspiration he provides amid the extra hurdles he has had placed in front of him.
Not many players could come back from that and provide a season like he had in 2022 and even if he does another two knees you would still stick with man given his fortitude and ability to prevail and still play quality and consistent football.