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Topic: AFL Rd 3 2023 Post Game Prognostications Giants vs Carlton (Read 48071 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Post Game Prognostications Giants vs Carlton

Reply #150 –
Quote from: deepbluesee – on
"In fact, the decision was "play on", followed by the "all clear" decision" - so, did we get the point and then the goal after the free kick? ie Did we get 6 or 7 points?
7, a point and then a goal for the free kick (for dissent).
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Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Post Game Prognostications Giants vs Carlton

Reply #151 –
Quote from: deepbluesee – on
"In fact, the decision was "play on", followed by the "all clear" decision" - so, did we get the point and then the goal after the free kick? ie Did we get 6 or 7 points?

7 points!

The dissent occurred after the umpire had given the "all clear" for the behind.  That's why the free was taken at the top of the square.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Post Game Prognostications Giants vs Carlton

Reply #152 –
Appealing for a free kick, seeking clarification of a mark, are not disputing an umpire's decision.
Asking "How is that not a free kick?" is a clear indication the player thinks the umpire got it wrong.

Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Post Game Prognostications Giants vs Carlton

Reply #153 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Appealing for a free kick, seeking clarification of a mark, are not disputing an umpire's decision.
Asking "How is that not a free kick?" is a clear indication the player thinks the umpire got it wrong.

Whitfield questioned the umpire over the dissent free, why didn't we get another kick?
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Post Game Prognostications Giants vs Carlton

Reply #154 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Questioning or not questioning is not related to being a dill IMO.

Anyone who questions an umpire's decision next week is a complete dill.

Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Post Game Prognostications Giants vs Carlton

Reply #155 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Anyone who questions an umpire's decision next week is a complete dill.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Post Game Prognostications Giants vs Carlton

Reply #156 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
So everytime our boys (and they do this a lot) point to the mark asking for a 50 they should have the ball taken off of them?

Why?  That's not dissent.

Whitfield did not get a 50 when he asked the umpire to explain why Coniglio was penalised.  It's not dissent for players to indicate deliberate out of bounds or out on the full, claim a touched ball, suggest that a player has cribbed on the mark, or to ask for an explanation.  It's dissent to repeatedly gesticulate and shout at the umpire when the call doesn't go your way.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Post Game Prognostications Giants vs Carlton

Reply #157 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Whitfield questioned the umpire over the dissent free, why didn't we get another kick?

Here's where it gets problematic.
It's been decided that the AFL wants to stamp out umpire dissent.
If it's open slather at senior level and there is no penalty then there are implications for lower leagues.

But how much is too much?
The AFL have basically put it back on the umpire to determine if they feel the dissent has gone too far.

Now in the case on the weekend.
Coniglio has put himself in a position where he has obviously offended the umpire.
The umpire's response to Whitfield..."it wasn't you it was Coniglio" is an indication he didn't feel the same degree of offense by Whitfield's actions.
Quote
"It's not what he said – it wasn't you (Whitfield), it was Steve Coniglio," he said.

"There was a decision not paid, so the ball had gone through (for a behind) and he (Coniglio) has gone, 'How is that not a free kick?' – with his arm out."

Whitfield replied: "And that's worth another goal?".

"That's dissent," Fleer said."

So it will be a brave (and foolish) player who disputes an umpires call this weekend.
It's really a case of they'll have to double down...unless they're told on the quiet to be a little lenient.

But it's a bit like being half pregnant.
How much is too offensive?
Is it fair to leave it to an umpire who just mightn't like the player who gives too much lip?
Can we afford to let it run open slather with the implications for junior league.

I can see the point of those arguing against the severity of the penalty on a team.
I kind of like the idea of putting it back on the individual.
No free, just report them and give them a fine.
It will be equally as effective in modifying behaviour and won't impcat on the match results.

Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Post Game Prognostications Giants vs Carlton

Reply #158 –
Coniglio wasn't being abusive, he asked a question. He used his hands, so what?
Are they to treat the umpires like magistrates?



 
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Post Game Prognostications Giants vs Carlton

Reply #159 –
I suspect this thread would look a lot different if that free and then the result went the other way.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Post Game Prognostications Giants vs Carlton

Reply #160 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Coniglio wasn't being abusive, he asked a question. He used his hands, so what?
Are they to treat the umpires like magistrates?

Coniglio gesticulated and shouted "How is that not a free kick?"  That might be a question grammatically, but in the context and manner in which it was made, it was dissent.

It was interesting to hear umpires calling in to the ABC and applauding the decision.  They all mentioned how difficult it is to attract and retain umpires in local and junior competitions because of the dissent and abuse.  My son-in-law was umpiring his son's under 9 team and had to send a player off for dissent.  Coniglio's behaviour was basically the same as the under 9 kid.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball
 

Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Post Game Prognostications Giants vs Carlton

Reply #161 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
I suspect this thread would look a lot different if that free and then the result went the other way.

Yep
Because then some of us would be making emotive responses based on losing the game, but even then I'd bet there would be a few critical of the player.

Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Post Game Prognostications Giants vs Carlton

Reply #162 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
I suspect this thread would look a lot different if that free and then the result went the other way.

I generally agree.

Thing we don't know is whether or not there was any additional mouthing off and disrespect shown towards the umpires during the match.

Realistically had we lost, we would all be looking at the 20 odd behinds and going kick straighter and we win easily even if there was a line ball decision at the end of the game.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Post Game Prognostications Giants vs Carlton

Reply #163 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Yep
Because then some of us would be making emotive responses based on losing the game, but even then I'd bet there would be a few critical of the player.

The only people defending the decision are the AFL and Carlton supporters.
Even a lot of usually pro umpire commentators like Dunstall don't understand why that one got picked out.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Post Game Prognostications Giants vs Carlton

Reply #164 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
The only people defending the decision are the AFL and Carlton supporters.
So basically the AFL and the most intelligent supporters :D

(I thought Dunstall was OK with the decision...he might be wondering why it was that particular one that got picked out)