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Topic: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane (Read 8990 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #45 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
one more question:
How can we be so poorly skilled under pressure that many of our 88,777 supporters at the game leave with 3 mins to go before 3/4 time?

Yep. I think that's a symptom of 'going to water when real heat is applied'... dramatic decline in execution/skills and decision making. For the folks at the game to see so many fundamental errors was incredibly disheartening -- glad I wasn't there -- and they let the players know.

Sometimes I wonder if our players live too much in a 'happy bubble' and become disconnected from a warrior attitude which is required when you go into battle. In the words of Jocko Willink... when under pressure focus on two things only, prioritize (quickly) then execute (well). Our execution under heat is ordinary at best, dreadful at worst... and by dreadful, I mean I ability to give the aggott back to the opposition.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #46 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Yep. I think that's a symptom of 'going to water when real heat is applied'... dramatic decline in execution/skills and decision making. For the folks at the game to see so many fundamental errors was incredibly disheartening -- glad I wasn't there -- and they let the players know.

Sometimes I wonder if our players live too much in a 'happy bubble' and become disconnected from a warrior attitude which is required when you go into battle. In the words of Jocko Willink... when under pressure focus on two things only, prioritize (quickly) then execute (well). Our execution under heat is ordinary at best, dreadful at worst... and by dreadful, I mean I ability to give the aggott back to the opposition.
Last night the mistakes from senior players were as bad and as disappointing as I have seen. Chains of errors is the only chain we can manage at the moment. I am under no illusion that Brisbane are a top side, but I just expect better execution than that from senior players (who are supposed to help groom the kids). If I had the time and the stomach for it, I would watch the game again and catalog the errors.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #47 –
1. After sitting through the Adelaide Oval Crows debacle I mentioned the old football coaches cry "pick up your man!
When CFC kick out after point score, other teams man us up and put us straight under pressure.  We often allowed Brisbane to easily kick short to a player.  We did have the same number of players, didn't we?  

2. Witches hats when Brisbane had the ball and heading deep into their forward line. Yes our guys do the right and run down there, but then some (like Motlop) seem to be mesmerised, just stand there and don't man up.     

Plenty of effort at times , but not well directed.

AB

Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #48 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
And to those paying out on Carlton Respects, please don't. It's a worthwhile starting point for a serious issue, and had absolutely nothing to do with last night's performance. 

Social issues has no place in sports imo. Defacing club colours is even worse. It's a worth while cause but there are other ways to promote the cause. Prefer if we had Charlie Blue eating raw meat. Facts on the ground is we don't win games with "respect" at the forefront of players minds and it has to be replaced by "ruthless" ASAP.

Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #49 –
I noticed right from the start of the game the Bears were out to hurt us. They were tackling with intent to hurt and when they won the free kick they certainly told us.
When teams do this physical stuff yeah we might do a bit of push and shove back but it creates perceived pressure and the players panic because they don't want to be tackled harshly and hurt.
We are a NICE team, we have no MONGREL, no one tackles to hurt someone.
You look back to when we were successful, we had all this, Whorethorn played unsocialable, Richmond were dirty.
I'm not saying we go out there and play with high elbows but play angry, play to win, no prisoners. I'm over this nice guy stuff.

Still can't work out the umpiring, they got so many HTB yet we got hardly any. Is it the way we tackle?
Why didn't Harry get a free kick for the whack he copped to the eye. 4 Umpires? WTF were they looking at?
Harry is always being held. Cripps is always being held at stoppages. I thought the 4 ump system was brought in to have extra eyes around contests not divide the ground up into qtrs instead of thirds With each ump sticking to his lane.

The Match committee should be sacked today! Not tomorrow! How many games do we lose and then mention the MC?
We are charlatans, but I thought we did very well last night with a half a playing list made up of VFL standard players.
2024... Moir of the same to come

Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #50 –
Quote from: Adelaideblue – on
1. After sitting through the Adelaide Oval Crows debacle I mentioned the old football coaches cry "pick up your man!
When CFC kick out after point score, other teams man us up and put us straight under pressure.  We often allowed Brisbane to easily kick short to a player.  We did have the same number of players, didn't we?  

2. Witches hats when Brisbane had the ball and heading deep into their forward line. Yes our guys do the right and run down there, but then some (like Motlop) seem to be mesmerised, just stand there and don't man up.     

Plenty of effort at times , but not well directed.

AB

They play that F$%^ing stupid zone defence. F&^* I hate using American terms for our game.
BUT STOP MANNING UP GRASS for f&^% sake.
2024... Moir of the same to come

Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #51 –
Quote from: BluePhantom – on
I noticed right from the start of the game the Bears were out to hurt us. They were tackling with intent to hurt and when they won the free kick they certainly told us.
When teams do this physical stuff yeah we might do a bit of push and shove back but it creates perceived pressure and the players panic because they don't want to be tackled harshly and hurt.
We are a NICE team, we have no MONGREL, no one tackles to hurt someone.
You look back to when we were successful, we had all this, Whorethorn played unsocialable, Richmond were dirty.
I'm not saying we go out there and play with high elbows but play angry, play to win, no prisoners. I'm over this nice guy stuff.

Still can't work out the umpiring, they got so many HTB yet we got hardly any. Is it the way we tackle?
Why didn't Harry get a free kick for the whack he copped to the eye. 4 Umpires? WTF were they looking at?
Harry is always being held. Cripps is always being held at stoppages. I thought the 4 ump system was brought in to have extra eyes around contests not divide the ground up into qtrs instead of thirds With each ump sticking to his lane.

The Match committee should be sacked today! Not tomorrow! How many games do we lose and then mention the MC?
We are charlatans, but I thought we did very well last night with a half a playing list made up of VFL standard players.

No where near angry and hungry enough.
We were getting hurt badly and there was little intent to hurt - it was like men playing against women.

Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #52 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Last night the mistakes from senior players were as bad and as disappointing as I have seen. Chains of errors is the only chain we can manage at the moment. I am under no illusion that Brisbane are a top side, but I just expect better execution than that from senior players (who are supposed to help groom the kids). If I had the time and the stomach for it, I would watch the game again and catalog the errors.

You'll need a lot of pen/pencils to catalogue the errors.

It is said that you play how you train. I recall vividly how hard we'd 'drill' in the military (Navy). And how you'd have your ring gear hanging out after every physical session, that's where incredible pressure was applied... soon sorted the hackers from the non-hackers but we were equipped to handle any pressure in 'combat.' The camaraderie & trust that developed created an 'us'. We hurt together and that builds something special. Above the shoulders 'drills' were every bit as demanding, until they became reflex.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #53 –
Quote from: BluePhantom – on
I noticed right from the start of the game the Bears were out to hurt us. They were tackling with intent to hurt and when they won the free kick they certainly told us.
When teams do this physical stuff yeah we might do a bit of push and shove back but it creates perceived pressure and the players panic because they don't want to be tackled harshly and hurt.
We are a NICE team, we have no MONGREL, no one tackles to hurt someone.
You look back to when we were successful, we had all this, Whorethorn played unsocialable, Richmond were dirty.
I'm not saying we go out there and play with high elbows but play angry, play to win, no prisoners. I'm over this nice guy stuff.

Still can't work out the umpiring, they got so many HTB yet we got hardly any. Is it the way we tackle?
Why didn't Harry get a free kick for the whack he copped to the eye. 4 Umpires? WTF were they looking at?
Harry is always being held. Cripps is always being held at stoppages. I thought the 4 ump system was brought in to have extra eyes around contests not divide the ground up into qtrs instead of thirds With each ump sticking to his lane.

The Match committee should be sacked today! Not tomorrow! How many games do we lose and then mention the MC?
We are charlatans, but I thought we did very well last night with a half a playing list made up of VFL standard players.

Well said.

We obviously train 'nice.' About time that changed, a lot.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #54 –
Quote from: tonyo – on
We are simply not consistently good enough.  Our forward movement is far too predictable and any side with a half-decent back six can make our scoring dry up (Saints and Lions have both done it easily).

Stats show we had more than our share of the ball, but the second and third quarters we showed no dare and run.  In fact, if Brisbane had kicked straight, we would have been 10 goals down at 3/4 time.

Very disappointing, and I feel this is a portent of yet another mid-table finish.


Tonyo I think our dare and run was there, we just kept giving it to blokes in Brisbane jumpers. Even the commentators said it one point, I think it was a Weiters grubber kick to a running Doc maybe? The idea was there, the kick was poor which resulted in a slight fumble then Brisbane player pouncing to apply pressure and the TO and it went straight back for a goal. Thats demoralising. I just expect better from players of that that experience.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #55 –
Time for another old rebuild? ::)

No! My head (and my heart) couldn't take another rebuild.
I won't live that long anyway.

I don't want to change the coach either.
(Although the scrutiny has already started...and that has an inevitable end if things don't improve.)

The thing is that when they're 'on' you'd probably give this group a chance against any other side.
But under pressure, or if the attitude is just a little bit off there are some glaring weaknesses exposed.

We look at some of the fringe players and often wonder why they get selected over others.
There must be a reason we think.
Maybe they're under certain instructions to play a role, or their pressure is valued...we don't value their contribution, but the coaches do.
But in many cases it 'ain't workin'. Their efforts are not contributing to the result. It's particularly true of our small/medium forwards who don't impact the scoreboard.

But it's not just the fringe players.
Even our very best have 'faults' that are exposed when things aren't going well.

Saad is terrific but he is often brushed aside too easily in tackles.
Harry has his brain fades and there is an indecision that often affects his disposal especially in front of goal.
Charlie can give a great contest but his second and third efforts once the contest is lost can vary considerably.
Jack tries hard all the time, but often will have a purple patch and then not have a significant impact for large parts of the game.
Cripps is so important but can be nullified, and if he's not prominent we're in trouble.
Weitering is having an up and down kind of year...and while that may be due in part to some off-field problems, it probably has more to do with the unsettled nature and lack of support from the other defenders who are more attackers than lock-down types.

One bloke you can usually depend on for consistency of effort and excellence is Walsh.
But he was very average last night...caught in tackles and unable to release, and his disposal efficiency was around 50% (it was 50%).

It's hard to know where we sit in the scheme of things.
We're probably very much a middle of the table side, which given the top end talent, is probably very much underachieving, but the issue is that there is such a gap between our best players and our fringe players.
Too much is left to too few, and if your star players are nullified, as they were last night, the remaining players aren't good enough to pick up the slack.


Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #56 –
Quote from: pinot – on
Social issues has no place in sports imo. Defacing club colours is even worse. It's a worth while cause but there are other ways to promote the cause. Prefer if we had Charlie Blue eating raw meat. Facts on the ground is we don't win games with "respect" at the forefront of players minds and it has to be replaced by "ruthless" ASAP.

I get your point. But there is a place for both. Obviously a 'boundaries' issue.

Carlton Respects is a brilliant initiative and makes a difference, a real difference in imperative areas throughout the community.

However, there needs to be a clear line and understanding between training/ on-field attitude and off-field behaviour. Come game day and once we hit the grass we are far too easy to intimidate and other clubs know it. Time to become pro-active with the ruthlessness and mongrel persistence, rather than learning how to 'cope' with an opponents aggression and seeking to absorb rather than create.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #57 –
Wieters and Young stay in the backline. FULL STOP.
You can't rob Peter to pay Paul by having Young ruck. Since he has started rucking his game is lacking and seems to have lost confidence.
However Kemp is looking composed.
Wieters and Young had good synergy but something is not right in the land of our backline.

JSOS plays better when just left in the fwd line but....

Just on the ruck, the mid fielders play like they are going to get the ball, so if they don't the oppo gets the ball and takes off with minimal pressure. I know it the chicken and the egg scenario but if we lose the stoppage the oppo seems to beable to get out easily. Needs to be more accountability around the contest. Just saying....
2024... Moir of the same to come

Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #58 –
Would love a couple of Mitch Robinson types right now!
Not pretty maybe some ordinary disposals but no individual contest is ever over.
We don’t have anyone at all like that.

Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #59 –
We are just not mentally switched on like last year. Not sure if we thought it would just happen but we don't want it bad enough. While skills can be a pressure thing they are also a concentration thing. They are a barometer on how switched on and hungry we really are. When we are hungry, like last year, our skills were so much better.

Talent wise we are good enough and deep enough. We were a couple of late chokes away from finals last year with a side crippled with injury, winning decent games with half a side. Thing is though, only the hungriest succeed in this game and we are back to not being hungry enough to succeed like we have been for many years.