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Topic: AFL Rd 17 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle (Read 7803 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #30 –
Sounds like a great old man, LN.

I was wrong about the result by about 15 goals (thought we'd lose by 5).

Rucks were a bit like when Freo had Sandilands - great player, got all the taps but opposition could rove to him.

Great all round game - the Blues were relentless, which was great to see.

Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #31 –
Impressive across the board IMO. Another good spread of goalkickers so we're not relying on just Charlie or Harry.

Smashed in the ruck like last week but the ground work that Silvagni does is excellent.

Kennedy's knee looked like a bad one but fingers crossed it's not season ending. Hewett should be able to step up but he doesn't provide that extra bit of marking power that Kennedy has when he goes forward. Hopefully McGovern can get up for next week....he's playing some good footy at the moment and helps us structurally down back.

I'm enjoying seeing Boyd and Cincotta come on. I wasn't sold on Boyd but I was at the Hawks game last week and you get a better perspective than on TV....Boyd's run and carry is really good and he uses it pretty well. It gives us some good ball users down back with him, Cincotta, Newman and Saad and frees up Docherty to play more in the midfield at times.

Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #32 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Just had a look at Longmuir's press conference.
A shell-shocked, shattered mess.
No idea what went wrong or what to do about it.
Not sure he will be there much longer.
They are use to ruck dominance leading into midfield and clearance dominance, when things do not follow the AFL script a lot of AFL old boys end up perplexed, they are too formulaic in their approach.

For much of this season, we've been taking the front position and letting our players get tackled by opponents trailing them to the ball. In the last 3 weeks we've flipped that on it's head, and we are the ones hunting opponents in the midfield. Then later in games when the opposition start to fatigue Cripps reverts to the old ways and starts hunting the footy instead of opponents, and they can't stop him.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #33 –
Very impressed with this win.

Was against decent opposition on their deck and we comprehensively thrashed them and never looked in any danger which is a rare thing since the rebuild started.

Thought while our stars played solid games I think our form improvement is as much on the back of the run we are getting from kemp Cunningham Martin Cottrell and even Boyd which I know many don’t rate him but he deserves the same time we afforded to any kid coming though.

Kemp takes the game on and reads the play very well. I wasn’t sure about him but think he could be become a permanent defender who can play on tall or medium forwards.

Loved Jacks game too.

Massive test this week.

Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #34 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
I read this morning that Fremantle are the 4th or 5th youngest list in the AFL, so I guess that may partly explain their indifferent form over the season. No doubt some will take the view that Justin Longmuir is the most boring man in AFL football, and puts the players to sleep. Personally, I find his calm, unruffled demeanour to be a pleasant antidote to some of the other AFL coaches.

It's a perception thing Paul.
We can look at the same press conference and see different things.
I didn't think he looked calm and unruffled in his press conference yesterday....or even boring.
He looked very disappointed, vague, fumbly and gave the impression of someone without a lot of answers...other than the fact the side was young.
But they've gone backwards and are extremely inconsistent this season.
Now those are views that are shared by quite a few Fremantle supporters last night and today.
But their side just had a pretty bad loss and they've reacted pretty much how we do when we have a bad run.
Many are calling for a change...but their options are probably a bit more limited, and they're not as attractive as a destination for a 'coach in  waiting'.

Just on the 'other' team.
One point Voss made in his presser was that they had 'simplified the game plan and the players had embraced that and as a result were playing better'

Which begs the questions...
Was the game plan they were using in the first part of the year too complicated for our guys and beyond their capabilities and skill level?
We're they not embracing it previously?
What changes were made to the plan.
Was there some truth to the discontent and were some 'hard' conversations undertaken.

Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #35 –
Lods, I suspect most supporters only watch the press conferences relating to their team. I have for a number of years tried to watch as many as time allows, for all teams, and Longmuir's body of work over time definitely matches my description. Yesterday he was off his normal standard by a fair way IMO.

Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #36 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Lods, I suspect most supporters only watch the press conferences relating to their team. I have for a number of years tried to watch as many as time allows, for all teams, and Longmuir's body of work over time definitely matches my description. Yesterday he was off his normal standard by a fair way IMO.

Fair enough.
I'd only watch him from news grabs and when Freo played Carlton so he hasn't left a marked impression.
Just thought he looked a bit shattered and bewildered yesterday.

Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #37 –
Quote from: Lods – on
It's a perception thing Paul.
We can look at the same press conference and see different things.
I didn't think he looked calm and unruffled in his press conference yesterday....or even boring.
He looked very disappointed, vague, fumbly and gave the impression of someone without a lot of answers...other than the fact the side was young.
But they've gone backwards and are extremely inconsistent this season.
Now those are views that are shared by quite a few Fremantle supporters last night and today.
But their side just had a pretty bad loss and they've reacted pretty much how we do when we have a bad run.
Many are calling for a change...but their options are probably a bit more limited, and they're not as attractive as a destination for a 'coach in  waiting'.

Just on the 'other' team.
One point Voss made in his presser was that they had 'simplified the game plan and the players had embraced that and as a result were playing better'

Which begs the questions...
Was the game plan they were using in the first part of the year too complicated for our guys and beyond their capabilities and skill level?
We're they not embracing it previously?
What changes were made to the plan.
Was there some truth to the discontent and were some 'hard' conversations undertaken.
Lets not forget something very important about the game plan, Voss and the coaches developed it around what the players thought about how they wanted to play and what they felt best suited them. The reason for it was so that there was total buy in (ie they all owned it).
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #38 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Rocky, Cripps polled 181 votes in the 2022 B+F. Docherty was 2nd with 173 votes.
Thanks Pauly. Let's see how Cez goes (baring injury)
 

Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #39 –
Quote from: crashlander – on
It only looks that way because Darcy isn't the smartest ruckman going around (just one of the strongest). He is fairly predictable in how he plays and how he delivers the ball. If he changed things up occasionally, make himself more predictable to him teammates instead of his opponents, it would be different.
To be honest, not a lot of modern ruckmen are matchwinners; they do a lot of push and shove and forget some of the most important lessons in ruck play.
NicNat has been one of the most complete rucks of recent times; he guides taps do moving mids, he doesn't just do the same things any time, he is willing to give the ball a huge bash sometimes and he often is in the play after the initial contest. he is the sort of ruck that makes premierships.
Not many of that type around these days. There are a lot of crash and bash rucks, who can be effective, but most don't deliver the ball that well.
Pittonet is a crash and bash type, but he can aim his taps pretty well. Not as good this year as he was last, but other teams. have done a lot more work on him, and he has been injured or recovering from injury a lot. But he has the problem in that he is predictable; he almost never smashes the ball forward, for example. That can be a lethal trick, if his mids are ready for it.

Breeann Moody does the big smash more than most rucks. The problem was that few of our mids were prepared for it. That has changed a bit, while Moody is developing her directional tapping better than she used to.

To be a great ruck, you need to be a thinker, not just strong, which limits many modern rucks.

^^^^^^^

I couldn't agree with more. As a fat, old "back in my day" ruckman, It's been sad to see the limited effect the current crop of big lads has on the centre bounce, but the fact is, as much as I love SOS's competitiveness at the bounce, our mid-field would be far less effective around a team with a good ruckman.

Either way, I will take this win any day of the week. Well done team.

Thought I'd share a text message from a Freo supporting mate in Perth - "Left game half way through 3rd quarter, which is a record for me.  Freo are pathetic , blues playing like a top 4 team.  Go figure ."

Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #40 –
Well beaten in rucking contests but I thought the game plan for our rucks was very effective.
Harry was very good rucking up forward.
Young was very effective dropping into defence and contributed a lot at ground level.
Silvagni seemed to spend less time in the ruck but was an excellent contributor around the ground.

Freeing up Weitering, from the last line of defence, continues to pay dividends and the rest of the defenders are developing into a real collaborative team with a willingness to contribute in attacking runs.  The other big difference with the defence is the long-overdue midfield pressure on the ball carriers.  This was massive in each of the past 3 games and it really shows the difference if it drops off even a little bit.  Probably one of the reasons for Dow, LOB and Fisher languishing in the ressies.

Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #41 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Lets not forget something very important about the game plan, Voss and the coaches developed it around what the players thought about how they wanted to play and what they felt best suited them. The reason for it was so that there was total buy in (ie they all owned it).

This resonates with me.
Recall much of Vossy's commentary over his tenure being about layering.
That process lends itself to creating a strong suitable foundation. From there you integrate the best the progression brings, and intervene to trim or train the rest. All the while there are many moving parts. Some are static. Some variable. Some controllable, others not so.

I know I repeat this, but consistency is crucial. Any chance we had 22 was eroded by injury when the foundations were still wet. This year may show the aspects of the various layers requiring attention. Therefore adjusting and stabilising takes time. It also causes confusion, breading anxiety for the individual.

Thinking systems, I'm hopeful we've endured the bulk of the instabilities. I'm hopeful our greatest challenge now is to maintain, sustain, and find methods to add those final touches consistently. Then we earn the right to enter the F equation.

Go Blues
Coming together is the beginning.
Keeping together is progress.
Working together is success.
Henry Ford.

Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #42 –
Quote from: RiverRat – on
Well beaten in rucking contests but I thought the game plan for our rucks was very effective.
Harry was very good rucking up forward.
Young was very effective dropping into defence and contributed a lot at ground level.
Silvagni seemed to spend less time in the ruck but was an excellent contributor around the ground.

Freeing up Weitering, from the last line of defence, continues to pay dividends and the rest of the defenders are developing into a real collaborative team with a willingness to contribute in attacking runs.  The other big difference with the defence is the long-overdue midfield pressure on the ball carriers.  This was massive in each of the past 3 games and it really shows the difference if it drops off even a little bit.  Probably one of the reasons for Dow, LOB and Fisher languishing in the ressies.

Interesting how we setup this week and how Weitering goes vs big bad Charlie Dixon, I always feel Dixon needs a second player to help Weitering as he is too much for one defender and if TDK returns it may not be at the expense of Young who I think will be needed down back.

Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #43 –
Quote from: townsendcalling – on
How hard, and important is Jack Martin! Fumbled early, but put in a great second half, his pressure is elite! (That bump!!)

And McGovern is slowly playing well (and playing each week)...  maybe our list of disaster recruits is thinning out??

Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #44 –
Went to the game and one thing stood out was the relentless tackling. We had a real appetite for the contest and body contact where earlier in the season we were playing a bit of bruise free stuff.