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Re: The EV thread

Reply #90 –
Quote from: LP – on
Followed a brand new BYD EV down the freeway tonight, no tail lights, at first I flashed the headlights thinking they hadn't put he headlights on, but they were on ridiculously bright and blinding.
Cheap but built to a price and refinement in terms of attention to detail and suitability for Aus standards and conditions wouldnt be a major consideration imho.
More Chinese brands on the way too with Geely, Smart(2nd time around), Xpeng and a couple more, cant see some of the well known auto brands surviving.
The USA have really gone hard on tariffs and ways to make it harder for Chinese brands to enter their local car market but we seem to be accepting of anyone willing to supply EV's.

Re: The EV thread

Reply #91 –
I received an email from my insurance broker today warning of the risk of fire from charging EVs.  It provided a list of common sense measures to follow when charging an EV but you certainly wouldn’t want to park your car in your garage or near your house while it’s charging.

The chance of a lithium battery fire has been a worry of mine since the technology became available but it’s rarely if ever discussed by those promoting EVs.  I wonder if the rapid take up of Chinese EVs by the Australian market prompted my insurance broker to speak out 🤔
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: The EV thread

Reply #92 –
Insurance companies justifying increased premiums.  One group says .0012% chance, another is twice as high at .006%.  This is against 0.1% for ICE.



Re: The EV thread

Reply #93 –
Quote from: DJC – on
I received an email from my insurance broker today warning of the risk of fire from charging EVs.  It provided a list of common sense measures to follow when charging an EV but you certainly wouldn’t want to park your car in your garage or near your house while it’s charging.

The chance of a lithium battery fire has been a worry of mine since the technology became available but it’s rarely if ever discussed by those promoting EVs.  I wonder if the rapid take up of Chinese EVs by the Australian market prompted my insurance broker to speak out 🤔
As Dodge suggested sounds like a good way for insurance companies to cash in on EVs and make some extra money.
Been some horrific stories of EVs setting on fire including in ships that were shipping them and I am surprised there haven't been more I incidents at home where people do home charging and use some unsafe setups. I'm expecting a box to tick in my next home insurance policy that will have to be ticked relating to do you have a EV charger in use and a hefty premium rise accompanying that ticked box. I'm delaying buying an EV as long as possible ...

Re: The EV thread

Reply #94 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Cheap but built to a price and refinement in terms of attention to detail and suitability for Aus standards and conditions wouldnt be a major consideration imho.
More Chinese brands on the way too with Geely, Smart(2nd time around), Xpeng and a couple more, cant see some of the well known auto brands surviving.
The USA have really gone hard on tariffs and ways to make it harder for Chinese brands to enter their local car market but we seem to be accepting of anyone willing to supply EV's.
the tariff genie is out of the bottle for us.  We rely so heavily on imports that we can't reign that back in now, because they'll just make our import costs too high and then stop buying our stuff in favour of others.

The last couple of years isn't solely about what we've done but what the Chinese did to us too.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: The EV thread

Reply #95 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
As Dodge suggested sounds like a good way for insurance companies to cash in on EVs and make some extra money.
Been some horrific stories of EVs setting on fire including in ships that were shipping them and I am surprised there haven't been more I incidents at home where people do home charging and use some unsafe setups. I'm expecting a box to tick in my next home insurance policy that will have to be ticked relating to do you have a EV charger in use and a hefty premium rise accompanying that ticked box. I'm delaying buying an EV as long as possible ...

Same boat here, EB1. Not getting an EV until we absolutely must. Meanwhile, we've decided to sell our 'his and hers' cars for one car only... got my eyes on a used, low kms, V8 Lexus (under $40,000).
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: The EV thread

Reply #96 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Same boat here, EB1. Not getting an EV until we absolutely must. Meanwhile, we've decided to sell our 'his and hers' cars for one car only... got my eyes on a used, low kms, V8 Lexus (under $40,000).
Nice choice Baggers, Lexus are a reliable and comfortable car plus they are one of the few that you can put some kms on them and they still hold their value.

Re: The EV thread

Reply #97 –
Only three of the 456 lithium-ion battery fires Fire and Rescue NSW attended in 2022-2023 involved electric vehicles so there is a relatively low risk. 

I use the insurance broker for my camper trailer insurance.  It has two large conventional batteries and solar panels to enable extended outback stays and many owners of similar camper trailers are replacing the standard batteries with lithium-ion batteries.  The risk of fire with those batteries is considerably higher, particularly with DYI installation and varied charging regimes.

The message from the insurance broker was more about the particular safety risks posed by EV battery fires when managed incorrectly, such as jet-like directional flames at temperatures of up to 1000 degrees Celsius. This presents a risk to adjacent structures or vehicles such as the four other cars destroyed by fire at Sydney airport when the battery was disconnected from a MG ZS EV and subsequently caught fire. 
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: The EV thread

Reply #98 –
I believe there is a slight risk with the lithium ion, majority of ev use a different chemistry.
If you look at the fires per per 100k stats ice are way more risky.
Hybrids are the fire risk of “ev”
The other “ev” fire risk is toys, scooters etc. They get charged via all sorts of dodgy power leads, home installed gpos etc.

Traction battery fires are rare, but shiiteful when started.
The majority of the “ev fires” that the YouTubers promote are nothing of the sort and many are ice fires.
I’m in several ev groups researching and they are good at pulling these sorts of claims apart but as we can see the misinformation they spread is pervasive.
Let’s go BIG !

Re: The EV thread

Reply #99 –
Quote from: northernblue – on
I believe there is a slight risk with the lithium ion, majority of ev use a different chemistry.
If you look at the fires per per 100k stats ice are way more risky.
Hybrids are the fire risk of “ev”
The other “ev” fire risk is toys, scooters etc. They get charged via all sorts of dodgy power leads, home installed gpos etc.

Traction battery fires are rare, but shiiteful when started.
The majority of the “ev fires” that the YouTubers promote are nothing of the sort and many are ice fires.
I’m in several ev groups researching and they are good at pulling these sorts of claims apart but as we can see the misinformation they spread is pervasive.

Re: The EV thread

Reply #100 –
Do you realise that the stats per 100 ICE vehicles include cars that have been stolen or used in some criminal activity and subsequently torched?

Also, the stats do not show how quickly the majority of ICE car fires can be extinguished because the fire is usually electrical and does not involve the source of energy, namely, the petrol tank.

I saw figures a day or so ago where 80,000 litres of water were used to contain a recent EV fire, with the risk that it could flare up again at a later stage. That water , highly contaminated, just went off into the nearest drains.

Also, the stats make no reference to the ferocity of fires with EVs caused by thermal runaway.

Finally, I read today that Greek ferries will not transport EVs unless their batteries are at less than 40 per cent charge.

 


Re: The EV thread

Reply #101 –
Quote from: northernblue – on
I believe there is a slight risk with the lithium ion, majority of ev use a different chemistry.
All EV vehicles use lithium ion batteries, it's the only energy density to weight chemistry that is viable for transport.

Hybrids can use lithium typically a LiPo or also a NiMH, the choice is really an engineering issue, how they will be used to store charge and the discharge profile.

"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: The EV thread

Reply #102 –
Quote from: Macca37 – on
I saw figures a day or so ago where 80,000 litres of water were used to contain a recent EV fire.
Language is a trap.

We describe it as a fire but most batteries failed by short circuit causing an arc, what we describe as a fire is closer to arc welding. Some combustible / volatile components might flare but the arc itself in the core components cannot be easily extinguished, you can only cool them until they discharge or break the battery down into smaller constituent components, that is why the fire brigade stand guard to basically leave them to self-extinguish dousing the surrounding materials.

You can get some very nasty stuff coming out of the battery during "the fire", the arc temperatures are typically much higher than a typical fire and you can end up with a cloud of toxic metal vapours similar to welding hazardous metals.

We can assume all the other surrounding body and interior materials for EV or ICE are basically the same, so we only have to concern ourselves with the differences.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: The EV thread

Reply #103 –
I've been driving a Kia Sportage Hybrid for the past 5 weeks.

5.2L/100km (35% less than equivalent non-hybrid) and a full tank range of 860km.

I think I have the best of both worlds.......

This is now the longest premiership drought in the history of the Carlton Football Club - more evidence of climate change?

Re: The EV thread

Reply #104 –
Quote from: tonyo – on
I've been driving a Kia Sportage Hybrid for the past 5 weeks.

5.2L/100km (35% less than equivalent non-hybrid) and a full tank range of 860km.

I think I have the best of both worlds.......
I think you are correct, and for me the real push should have been hybrids a long time ago, whether they were battery hybrids or fuel cell type hybrids. We could have all been driving them by now and not wasting fossil fuel stuck in city traffic jams, and traffic emissions would be halved or lower already.

In relation to the wider subject matter, I wouldn't be at all surprised to find the real world risk of fire events is also the lowest in hybrids because a percentage of hybrids are on safer battery technologies.

Most of the hard line push for one technology or the other is about profit, not about emissions reduction.

I read the other day that if we'd combined SolarPV / Battery or Solar Thermal with exiting coal fired power station infrastructure we could have dramatically slashed emissions but it's not so profitable for big business and political will is weak. The trick it seems is that when you have a diversity of solutions you get the ability to make the best flexible use of every technology without compromise. The various apparatchiks for each technology want their preferred option to be the sole solution at any price.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"