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Re: The EV thread

Reply #135 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
The Chinese are showing they are doing it better and cheaper.

Nothing more nothing less.

I saw a video.  Wait until xiamoi get their cars here.

Democrats in the US were buying the vast majority of Teslas.  They're not buying them anymore.

Interesting to see the losses per sale that manufacturers are prepared to wear in order to snare a market share:

https://www.drive.com.au/news/xiaomi-loses-almost-14000-per-electric-car/
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: The EV thread

Reply #136 –
China "loses" money on a lot of exports, but it's only a loss if you pay all your bills.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: The EV thread

Reply #137 –
Quote from: LP – on
China "loses" money on a lot of exports, but it's only a loss if you pay all your bills.

Ford and Rivian are losing quite a bit more per EV sold.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: The EV thread

Reply #138 –
I caught up with a mate over the holidays and he reminded me of a scary incident he had while "Driving" his Tesla, he had told me this before and I can't recall if I have already posted it here but it's worth repeating.

Basically, he was "Driving" his Tesla 100D to work when it entered a road work zone, I write "Driving" because it was apparently in some sort of automatic-mode of operation. At first it behaved correctly slowing for the 40kph road work signs, but on a sweeping gravel bend about half through the extended road work zone it suddenly accelerated to 80kph, he was quickly able to take control and slow it down but potentially things could have gone very badly given like most regional roads there was a large ditch / channel besides the road. He reported this to Tesla and apparently the problem was blamed on "Non-standard speed signs" for confusing the system software. However, the speed signs were the bog standard roadside frames they use pretty much all over the country.

Needless to say he has not used these features since, and it's a warning to anybody putting too much trust in automation which uses hardware and software designed and coded by people.

Interestingly, I've had a similar experience as a passenger in a mate's Tesla in Europe, which also sped up when it should have slowed. In Europe the feature has apparently been disabled because of a spate of similar events.

I think it would be wise for the industry to consider transport automation separately from the electrification, but it seems they are tied hand in hand.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: The EV thread

Reply #139 –
^^

Its a selling point.   Thing is, the car cant interpret whats happening.  I.e. here, if you go through roadworks, and the original speed signs are not covered up (not just electronic signage) the Car is not equipped to be able to interpret what it sees from the information its given.  So roadwork sign at first place, slow to 40.  pass original speed sign, potentially showing original speed limit, and there is your answer. 

Still, I wouldnt trust anything automated.  Ive used my fair share of cloud hosted virtual machines running systems.  occasionally if the host has an issue causing the VM to become unresponsive. 

This is a problem that has nothing to do with the price of fish.  Something fails at the host level and you get an outage. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: The EV thread

Reply #140 –
Quote from: LP – on
China "loses" money on a lot of exports, but it's only a loss if you pay all your bills.
China has had record sales internally for EV's but thats because the locals receive large subsidies and are being pushed into EV's because the reverse is happening with subsidies for gas guzzler vehicles.
Only three of their EV brands make any money with BYD at home and around the world leading the way and overseas sales are expected to see a big drop off in 2025.
How long can Xi and his crew keep on propping up the EV market?, Trumps mate Musk has been selling plenty of Tesla's too in China only but has has falling sales everywhere else but thats all set to decline as well when all those Government handouts end.
I'll be interested to see if Elon puts some pressure on his buddy the Trumpster to go easy on his Chinese buddies to ease those tariffs and look after Musk by providing the following:
Regulatory Relief: With Musk's influence in the White House, Tesla might face less scrutiny from federal agencies
Self-Driving Cars: There's hope for fast-tracked federal framework regulations on autonomous vehicles, potentially giving Tesla an edge
AI Advancements: Wall Street sees Tesla as an undervalued AI player, especially in the realm of self-driving technology.
For all the downturn in EV sales the Tesla share price has boomed as has Musks wealth and Id expect Tesla to expand more heavily into other areas with Trump giving them a helping hand.

Re: The EV thread

Reply #141 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
AI Advancements: Wall Street sees Tesla as an undervalued AI player, especially in the realm of self-driving technology.

For all the downturn in EV sales the Tesla share price has boomed as has Musks wealth and Id expect Tesla to expand more heavily into other areas with Trump giving them a helping hand.
Yes it is interesting the market tactics of long term and short term.

I'd stay away from anything life preserving that starts with "AI", it's a lot of smoke and mirrors, you won't be seeing AI in hospital devices for a long long time yet, until it appears in intrinsically safe type hospital devices don't expect an AI car to be reliable. This is not to confuse complex machinery with something like AI diagnosis of cancer or test results which might we be more reliable than people, however even so people are unlikely to be removed from the loop.

The marketing people are pretty loose at defining car reliability and safety, the systems they build and sell are safe in a statistical sense, they won't kill people any faster than other human drivers, but they aren't as yet safer than human drivers in all circumstances.

I've read a report recently that suggests all EV markets are about to take a hit, followed by a boom. The problem is the existing stock sitting in huge numbers are likely to be redundant before they ever reach the showroom floor due to new battery and energy management technologies coming on stream. For me the EVs alone are not the issue, because even if they can recharge faster or store more energy for longer range, the infrastructure to charge them is still years and years away! FFS, they are threaten blackouts locally from two days of hot weather causing too much load on the system, that's a fraction of the load any significant percentage of EVs will need.

Tesla are spinning new batteries to last 6x longer, "Last" is a bit sneaky, they don't mean drive 6x further they mean the battery has a lifetime 6x longer. Ironic because the batteries in reality don't last anywhere near as long as the old original marketing claimed, but they get away with it because most suburban drivers do not notice the range diminishing. So I gather what the marketing people really mean by 6x longer is that we are now supplying batteries that will actually last as long as they originally claimed they would!

China is an interesting case, my Shanghai associate travels by road to some regional cities on a regular basis, one of his trips takes him past field after field of obsolete EV stretching as far as the eye can see, which by official reports are "stored waiting for recycling!" The only recycling being completed there will be conducted by mother nature. My associate, who works in the polymer / elastomer industry, tells me the particulates coming off the degrading tyres alone are now considered toxic waste in some regions.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"
 

Re: The EV thread

Reply #142 –
Actually LP, AI is used to interpret the results of medical imaging in remote locations.  My nephew is one of the computer nerds who developed the program.  AI is used in a range of other medical applications but they are all limited applications that can utilise the advantages AI has in particular circumstances.  A research program my nephew is involved in is reviewing millions of mammograms to determine whether there's a link between thickening breast tissue and heart disease.  That research wouldn't be practicable without AI ... and it's very different to controlling a motor vehicle.

It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: The EV thread

Reply #143 –
Quote from: LP – on
I caught up with a mate over the holidays and he reminded me of a scary incident he had while "Driving" his Tesla, he had told me this before and I can't recall if I have already posted it here but it's worth repeating.

Basically, he was "Driving" his Tesla 100D to work when it entered a road work zone, I write "Driving" because it was apparently in some sort of automatic-mode of operation. At first it behaved correctly slowing for the 40kph road work signs, but on a sweeping gravel bend about half through the extended road work zone it suddenly accelerated to 80kph, he was quickly able to take control and slow it down but potentially things could have gone very badly given like most regional roads there was a large ditch / channel besides the road. He reported this to Tesla and apparently the problem was blamed on "Non-standard speed signs" for confusing the system software. However, the speed signs were the bog standard roadside frames they use pretty much all over the country.

Needless to say he has not used these features since, and it's a warning to anybody putting too much trust in automation which uses hardware and software designed and coded by people.

Interestingly, I've had a similar experience as a passenger in a mate's Tesla in Europe, which also sped up when it should have slowed. In Europe the feature has apparently been disabled because of a spate of similar events.

I think it would be wise for the industry to consider transport automation separately from the electrification, but it seems they are tied hand in hand.
I drive a ranger that has all sorts of tech in it.

I don't know what its all called, but there is 1 thing that is basically cruise control, but it adapts to the street signs.
It won't start slowing down or speeding up until it 'hits it', but it will adapt its speed accordingly.

I've gone through similar with road works, usually after hours when not manned and seen it do the same thing when an existing street sign hasn't been covered correctly.

It also defaults to 100km/h when it can't find a speed sign (from what i've seen) on back roads even if they are windy gravel tracks with potholes galore.

Its reasons like that why you are always supposed to be 'in control' of a tesla etc because there are too many circumstances which exist outside of regular programming and it needs a human brain to see the logic.

Re: The EV thread

Reply #144 –
To LP’s original thoughts about self driving, I’m also sceptical.
But I liken it to the relatively common Lane Departure Assist, which corrects what it believes is you drifting out of your lane by automatically applying braking force to the opposite wheels… nice theory.
I’ve had it apply itself a few times incorrectly and while not violent or aggressive I find it unwelcome.
Feature turned off 👍🏼
All new cars carry tech, it’s not an ev thing.

As for LP’s “points” about the millions of ev rotting away in field after field, I think you’ve been reading too many articles from Toyota.
After all Toyota has developed “game changing” solid state battery tech to be progressively rolled out over the next couple of years… just buy a new ice this year 😉
Talk to ev owners, as a rule they love them and would never again drive a stinking poisonous ice car.
Ask a reformed smoker what it’s like to enter a room full of smokers, foul air, your clothes and hair stink…

No, no we don’t want to keep developing ev, fresh air is overrated, let’s keep looking after the planet by burning dinosaurs… 🤦🏼‍♂️
Let’s go BIG !

Re: The EV thread

Reply #145 –
I've mentioned Robert Pepper a few times before and I thoroughly recommend checking out his channel:

https://www.youtube.com/c/L2SFBCRobertPepperautojourno

A couple of points Robert made about self or assisted driving vehicles are that he finds himself losing concentration and not anticipating hazards and that the technology isn't really appropriate for Australian driving conditions.

I'm not sure if his experiments with automatic braking systems and a blow up doll are still up but it's worth watching.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: The EV thread

Reply #146 –
Quote from: northernblue – on
To LP’s original thoughts about self driving, I’m also sceptical.
But I liken it to the relatively common Lane Departure Assist, which corrects what it believes is you drifting out of your lane by automatically applying braking force to the opposite wheels… nice theory.
I’ve had it apply itself a few times incorrectly and while not violent or aggressive I find it unwelcome.
Feature turned off 👍🏼
All new cars carry tech, it’s not an ev thing.

As for LP’s “points” about the millions of ev rotting away in field after field, I think you’ve been reading too many articles from Toyota.
After all Toyota has developed “game changing” solid state battery tech to be progressively rolled out over the next couple of years… just buy a new ice this year 😉
Talk to ev owners, as a rule they love them and would never again drive a stinking poisonous ice car.
Ask a reformed smoker what it’s like to enter a room full of smokers, foul air, your clothes and hair stink…

No, no we don’t want to keep developing ev, fresh air is overrated, let’s keep looking after the planet by burning dinosaurs… 🤦🏼‍♂️
I switch the LDA off too, drives me mad trying to recorrect even the slightest movement either way, new Cars get bought on the basis of extra safety as well as environmental concerns and you are made to feel guilty keeping your old unsafe low tech gas guzzler but how many drivers actually use and know what all the new tech is about in their wonder car?

Re: The EV thread

Reply #147 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
I switch the LDA off too, drives me mad trying to recorrect even the slightest movement either way, new Cars get bought on the basis of extra safety as well as environmental concerns and you are made to feel guilty keeping your old unsafe low tech gas guzzler but how many drivers actually use and know what all the new tech is about in their wonder car?

We have two vehicles, both purchased in 2017 and built by the same manufacturer.  One has all the safety features and bells and whistles and the other has traction control (a pain in the butt) and not much else.  It doesn't have central locking and it has wind up windows.  It does have an aftermarket reversing camera.

No points for guessing which vehicle has fewer issues and is more enjoyable to drive  :) 
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: The EV thread

Reply #148 –
https://au.yahoo.com/finance/news/elon-musk-freaking-tesla-craters-210206144.html
Musk being attacked on all fronts and might be regretting jumping on the Trump bandwagon...70% down for Tesla sales in Aus also contributing to lower sales figures overall for EV's and in a turn around PHEV's are proving more popular now with a 200% plus increase in sales led by the BYD Shark Ute which is proving very popular.