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Re: The Zuton factor - Pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure

Reply #15 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Fogarty is number 1 at Carlton for forward 50 pressure, number 1 in the AFL for forward 50 tackles and number 1 at Carlton for score assists.
This stuff is completely missed by TV viewers, and game callers, because it all happens well off the footy not even within the side on camera field of view most of the time. You basically have to be at the ground with a wide field view and not be ball watching to see it happen, much of it only really visible in replays from behind the goals.

It's why players like Owies, Cottrell, Fogarty and Boyd are so heavily favoured by coaches while being whipped by many fans.

You know when the opposition find space in our D50, it's not the fault of Plowman, Weiters, Youing, McGovern or Newman, although they cop the brunt of the fan ire because the fans see the end result. The cause is because some utility, SF or wing hasn't pushed hard to run into the available space well ahead of the contest. This was one of the reasons why I was a critic of Motlop, fans love him because in camera they see him chase, tackle, and use the footy. But it's what he wasn't doing when the ball was far away that was the real problem.

Much of it is summarised by those coaching tips from Hodge to young players on the field, "You push there, don't watch from here, you go into that space when the contest is over there!"
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: The Zuton factor - Pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure

Reply #16 –
We miss Fogarty.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: The Zuton factor - Pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure

Reply #17 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
We miss Fogarty.

We do.
But what's also missing across the board is that defensive attack on the ball and the player in possession  that saw us with two players in  just about every tackle after the turn around last year. Fogarty was a big part of that.  Effort and pressure have slackened off.
Maybe the players subconsciously thought that once they found that intensity it would just remain without having to work for it.
They need to re-find it or the season will be gone.

Re: The Zuton factor - Pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure

Reply #18 –
Fogarty's rebirth has been based on work ethic and doing the one percenters well, reminds me a lot of the role McCreery plays at Collingwood minus the pace factor. Pies dont care how many goals, kicks etc he gets but just want him chasing, tackling, causing turnovers and being part of the chain of score involvements.

Re: The Zuton factor - Pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure

Reply #19 –
I suspect we miss Saad more, we've shown we can still score our problem seems to be stopping opposition scores.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: The Zuton factor - Pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure

Reply #20 –
Quote from: LP – on
I suspect we miss Saad more, we've shown we can still score our problem seems to be stopping opposition scores.
I think Boyd has a done a decent job in filling in for Saad and even Cincotta defensively but we miss that rebound and accurate  kicking that Saad provides as it breaks up the play and those quick switches across ground often lead to thrusts forward where our big key forwards can be one out.

Re: The Zuton factor - Pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure

Reply #21 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
I think Boyd has a done a decent job in filling in for Saad and even Cincotta defensively but we miss that rebound and accurate  kicking that Saad provides as it breaks up the play and those quick switches across ground often lead to thrusts forward where our big key forwards can be one out.
One thing I do know, he'll close the gaps and leave his own opponent to create the spoils.

Our D50 has been good in general, it's the run and unpredictable carry that I think we miss the most. Not surprising, the opposition have no idea of where Saad is heading, it looks like most of his team-mates struggle to know what he'll do as well!

Another thing, in Saad's absence McGovern has to cover more ground, and that seems to affect his ability to pick out targets like we know he can, which just compounds the problem of Saad missing on the rebound. Early in the season McGovern got to sit across the HBF, intercept and hit up targets on the F50, now he is all over the place.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: The Zuton factor - Pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure

Reply #22 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
I think Boyd has a done a decent job in filling in for Saad and even Cincotta defensively but we miss that rebound and accurate  kicking that Saad provides as it breaks up the play and those quick switches across ground often lead to thrusts forward where our big key forwards can be one out.
Defensively he has shown desperation and a willingness to defend dourly (as per his effort to cop a kick in the face v the Swans). His kicking, IMO, is not as elite as its made out to be.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: The Zuton factor - Pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure

Reply #23 –
Saad is very good under pressure, usually finds a target  and can alter his decision making and find alternative targets quickly on different angles. I think Boyd is a good kick but is better when he is in the clear and heading forward, for a VFL unknown player I have warmed to Boyd and think he is in our best 22/23 and happy to give Austin a tick for his recruiting.

Re: The Zuton factor - Pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure

Reply #24 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Saad is very good under pressure, usually finds a target  and can alter his decision making and find alternative targets quickly on different angles. I think Boyd is a good kick but is better when he is in the clear and heading forward, for a VFL unknown player I have warmed to Boyd and think he is in our best 22/23 and happy to give Austin a tick for his recruiting.
As have I, all I'm saying is to my eye, his kicking isn't elite.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: The Zuton factor - Pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure

Reply #25 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
As have I, all I'm saying is to my eye, his kicking isn't elite.

Thing is who do we have who's kicking is 'elite'.

Even Nick Daicos who is as good a kick as any went at 30% on the weekend.

Re: The Zuton factor - Pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure

Reply #26 –
Quote from: shawny – on
Thing is who do we have who's kicking is 'elite'.

Even Nick Daicos who is as good a kick as any went at 30% on the weekend.
I reckon Charlie is close to an elite kick. I reckon Jack Martin and Weiters are close also. The rest on our list are very ordinary.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: The Zuton factor - Pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure

Reply #27 –
Boyd's kicking when he has time is excellent.
He goes at 82% efficiency.

He gets in trouble at times when-
-He tends to rush the hack kick out, which often comes straight back.
-He takes risks, which in itself isn't a bad thing (I think we play too cautious a lot of the time, especially when we build a lead.) These risks have proved costly when he kicks to situations which aren't really advantageous.

A lot of these things improve with game time and he's still only played 26.
He has courage, and a bit of mongrel.
He's going OK and doing his job.

Re: The Zuton factor - Pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure

Reply #28 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
I think Boyd is a good kick but is better when he is in the clear and heading forward, for a VFL unknown player I have warmed to Boyd and think he is in our best 22/23 and happy to give Austin a tick for his recruiting.

This.

I feel the same way and my issues with him initially was that he folded under pressure and his kicking suffered.

As you mention, it's still a bit of a worry, but he has improved a lot in this area.

If we had someone else capable of negating small forwards, I'd be keen to get him further up the ground and help our connection between mids and forwards and also between forwards and the big sticks.

Re: The Zuton factor - Pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure pressure

Reply #29 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
This.

I feel the same way and my issues with him initially was that he folded under pressure and his kicking suffered.

As you mention, it's still a bit of a worry, but he has improved a lot in this area.

If we had someone else capable of negating small forwards, I'd be keen to get him further up the ground and help our connection between mids and forwards and also between forwards and the big sticks.

Yep. He'd be deadly with space and ball in hand around the middle and high half forward... even high half back.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17