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Topic: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong (Read 59039 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #120 –
Quote from: Lods – on
He's come in for some severe criticism so the onus is on him now to prove his mettle.
It's a character test for him, and he has the talent to rise to it...it's whether he has the attitude and will.
@Lods Fans carry on a bit, they bang on about it was just an arm across the body, no force, etc., etc..

But from an AFL perspective that delay from somewhat trivial contact costs you 2 or 3 steps, and 2 or 3 steps of an AFL player on the move is 6 or 7 metres, you'll never close the gap unless you are chasing a dullard like Riewoldt.

In NRL, they look for shoulder to shoulder, if a player is detained illegally it's a professional foul with either a send off, a penalty try or sometimes both! The AFL need to look at this as part of the score review chain, to stop those two bullcrap incidents enacted by Handbagger players.

I don't care if it's in the fall of the ball zone, I want to see the contest in that zone, but this sh1zen happening 20m or 30m away from the footy is a joke. Scott's learned that his blokes can get away with if it's far enough off the ball, and it delivers them a field wide overlap.

Perhaps a few players need to hand out a Barry Hall solution to scraging, reminds me of the good old days when Yarran dropped the pest Chapman! The media jumped on Yarran, but Yarran copped his whack, they said nothing about Chapman's poking, pinching, ankle kicking tactics behind play.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #121 –
Quote from: LP – on
The above assertion is just an extension of the media trying to peg Voss on a fixed selection strategy, nobody should be gifted a spot, the MC should not take a formulaic approach. the real world is not like Supercoach.

Week to week MC selections should be based on merit, conditions and the strategy of the day. I hope our MC will be clever enough to analyse and pick the eyes out of the best strategies for each opponent, some weeks we might go tall, some weeks we might go small.

Every week the opposition will try to leverage our deficiencies, if we are predictable it becomes easier for them, like last weekend kicking it on the head of Charlie or BigH who were stuck between 2 or 3 defenders.

Call it what you want, but its simple facts. 30 into 23 doesn't go and someone has to make way.

The players i mentioned will be one of the ones who make way when we get players of the calibre of Saad, McGovern, Cerra.....even Fogarty, Martin, Cuningham, Motlop.....not to mention Docherty, Silvagni next year as well.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #122 –
@LP
The lack of a free for Williams and his response was only one aspect of criticism...not really important in the scheme of things.
I was talking more about the criticism centred around his defensive game and errors.
That's of greater concern than whether he staged for a free or not.
That's what he has to redeem in the eyes of some.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #123 –
Quote from: Lods – on
There’s a bit of a contradiction in your post. A lot of it is about the ‘future’(when it rains, when players return from injury) and what might happen, yet the judgements made on the two-ruck situation were made in the ‘present of 2023’ when there were aspects of both players not up to scratch, and both struggled a bit with injury at stages during the season.
Judging in the present is also one of the issues with statistics. They are a measure of the past, (even last weekend’s statistics). A string of good games by a player and those early season statistics can alter dramatically.

We don’t know what will happen in the games to come and a whole lot of variables will come into play. The team we’re playing at ‘present’ may be completely different to the side that takes the field at the end of the year. We may get players back… and/or (perish the thought) we may lose important players. There’s not a lot of point predicting a line-up with a full side to choose from, because that’s a pretty unlikely scenario.

If we do have a full side to choose from, they might as well just give us the cup.

If you have access to a crystal ball that allows us to predict anything other than the now, then let me know. ;)

Otherwise, we can only use previous trends and statistics to give our best guess on what will happen.

For the record i was being a bit broad with my 'full side' comments. I was more referring to a normal injury list of a handful of people.....rather than the umpteen we have now.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #124 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
If you have access to a crystal ball that allows us to predict anything other than the now, then let me know. ;)

Otherwise, we can only use previous trends and statistics to give our best guess on what will happen.

For the record i was being a bit broad with my 'full side' comments. I was more referring to a normal injury list of a handful of people.....rather than the umpteen we have now.

The problem is that being so adamant that a current trend is the basis for future outcomes is just illogical.
It may work out as predicted, it may not.
The game we follow is so fluid, so unpredictable, that the guy we criticise today is sometimes the champion of tomorrow.
We see it often when the first half of a player's season is compared to the second half.
In that respect things like statistics can be a 'brake' on our thinking.
We adopt a position based on stats and form at the time and refuse to move until it becomes so obvious that maybe things weren't so clear cut.

I have no idea what's going to happen, especially with the ruck situation.
Injuries, loss of form and other variables make it impossible to predict.
But I do keep an open mind, and try not to make definitive predictions.
If you do that with AFL you're probably going to be wrong as often as you're right.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #125 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
He was terrible. Defence wins premierships and he can't defend. With Saad and McGovern we can afford to have him there for his rebound but not now.

Ironically we played better when he went off against the Giants.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/other/blues-star-accused-of-staging-as-cats-gun-fined/ar-AA1nPWpr?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=5eae28a9074d4f18e7dfd0319178ceee&ei=29
"The Other Teams Can Rot In Hell"

Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #126 –

David King wants Williams dropped, not hard enough, poor decision making, being beaten too easily in contests by smaller bodied players ie Stengle and wants coach Voss to validate his call for better defense by making an example of Williams and dropping him to the VFL...not banishing but making a statement. He suggested Binns as a replacement but Im not seeing Binns as a defender at this stage.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #127 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
David King wants Williams dropped, not hard enough, poor decision making, being beaten too easily in contests by smaller bodied players ie Stengle and wants coach Voss to validate his call for better defense by making an example of Williams and dropping him to the VFL...not banishing but making a statement. He suggested Binns as a replacement but Im not seeing Binns as a defender at this stage.

Not a good time (player availability wise) to try and make an example of someone....especially given our month of games.

I reckon Vossy definitely would've highlighted what Williams did wrong, but done so behind closed doors. I doubt we'll see another one of them in a hurry.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #128 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
David King wants Williams dropped, not hard enough, poor decision making, being beaten too easily in contests by smaller bodied players ie Stengle and wants coach Voss to validate his call for better defense by making an example of Williams and dropping him to the VFL...not banishing but making a statement. He suggested Binns as a replacement but Im not seeing Binns as a defender at this stage.
Browny was even more scathing than King.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #129 –
Let's be sure we ignore that against GWS Williams was subbed out for a knock on his achilles. That might have affected his performance. But King and the rest don't want to admit they made a mistake. Just as the AFL won't admit a mistake on the McKay 50 meters. He stood up and checked out his sore leg, he didn't stand the mark.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #130 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Browny was even more scathing than King.
Not wrong...its a fair spray...
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/carlton-blues/afl-news-2021-zac-williams-one-of-the-laziest-footballers-says-jonathan-brown-contract-trade/news-story/da774d0f30b45bde60c5ffa312645c6d

Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #131 –
Whatever you think of the Williams 'incident', one way or another the AFL got it wrong.

There was no free kick paid at the time......so either it deserved a free kick or it didn't.
If it deserved a free kick, it didn't get one, so it was wrong. Umpires were wrong.
If it DIDN'T deserve a free kick, then how can Henry be fined for it? Tribunal are wrong.

Take it whichever way you like, but there is no scenario where everyone was right, so someone was wrong.
 

Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #132 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Not wrong...its a fair spray...
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/carlton-blues/afl-news-2021-zac-williams-one-of-the-laziest-footballers-says-jonathan-brown-contract-trade/news-story/da774d0f30b45bde60c5ffa312645c6d

Thats from 3 years ago yeah.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #133 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Not a good time (player availability wise) to try and make an example of someone....especially given our month of games.

I reckon Vossy definitely would've highlighted what Williams did wrong, but done so behind closed doors. I doubt we'll see another one of them in a hurry.
Id replace him with Cincotta.....