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Topic: AFL Rd 11 2024 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Gold Coast (Read 12078 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #75 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Where's arnie with the stats of how we go with one ruck vs how we go with 2. 

Unless you consider the quality of the opposition, our team in's and out's, the opposition in's and out's it's probably not worth the time and effort.

If you take those things on face value we just have to have Fogarty in the team and we're as good as over the line :D  :D

Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #76 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Mac Andrew pushed Charlie under the footy a few times no free kick.  Front on contact in a marking contest against us yes, for us....

Look the gc are afl sponsored but I was actually upset at the late square up.  I also thought at the time the way they umpire us might be best for the comp if they umpire everyone that way and that means no tiggy touchwood frees against us too, because I found myself thinking we've given away a few that weren't there and they've only missed a couple they should have paid unless you pay them against us.
I felt yesterday that the umps (ie the AFL) were definitely trying to get GC over the line. I'm not normally an umpire basher or conspiracy theorist but the umps were utterly appalling and blatantly one sided yesterday. I have never heard a crowd boo them like that, people in the crowd near me were incensed to al level I have never seen. As for Harwick, he should just should STFU unless he is coming out in support of how appalling the umps were towards us.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #77 –
Hardwick didn't hesitate to put a free plug in for his B n B nest egg during the Fox pre-game. Don't expect him to comment on umpire bias against us.
Coming together is the beginning.
Keeping together is progress.
Working together is success.
Henry Ford.

Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #78 –
Both coaches are going to ask for a please explain about the umpires from our game.  Hardwick seems to be aiming at holding the ball, what are our blokes going to be asking about?

I think largely the game was ok but lopsided for us.  We would get pinged for stuff gold coast got away with, amd then there was that ridiculous 50 metre penalty paid against Harry who was trying to get to the ball drop and ran into witts which stands out as frankly cheating, but other than the Suns got a few soft frees that we didn't and im on the fence about those.  Pay them both ways or don't pay them at all.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #79 –
There was a touch of autumn leaves about the incident between Harry and Witts.

Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #80 –
There won't be much to come out of that umpire complaining, Hardwick's example was Charlie being spun in the tackle but the reality is Andrew didn't halt Charlie's movement or inhibit his disposal so the umpire is correct.

Despite an out of the box low free kick count there wasn't much obvious stuff missed, and I suspect the main complaint will be that all the subtle / borderline frees went GC's direction in the 1st half, but I didn't see any major clangers by the umpires for either side.

The problem as we all know it is that the umpiring is an interpretation that changes regularly, week to week month to month. Whether that is driven by the public, media or AFL opinion it doesn't matter. It's clearly not stable.

I'm against Hardwick's demand umpires blow the whistle sooner, he seems to think "We the public" want that as the default, which in effect encourages and rewards tacklers. But for me it's the exact opposite of what the general public want, we want the player hunting the ball rewarded, we do not want the sniper who sits off the contests and tackles rewarded.

Doc had some great stuff to say about umpiring on the Ben and Harry Podcast, he described how players are trained to compete around the queue based method umpires use to make decisions. But he said it's the one thing he would change if he could, he'd get rid of queue based umpiring.

Where does this concept of queue based decision making come from, it's probably a response to slow motion replays and broadcaster behaviour! It's interesting the media is pointing at the coaches today, and the media points at the umpires, and the media points at the AFL administration, but it's actually the media doing most of the driving.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #81 –
I told my wife during the 3rd quarter that the umpires will give us a whole heap of free kicks at the end when the game is over.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #82 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
I told my wife during the 3rd quarter that the umpires will give us a whole heap of free kicks at the end when the game is over.

Funny that... seems to always happen - even up the frees at some stage!
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #83 –
Its a bit of a strange one.  Its almost like someone sends a message to them saying, hey, youve missed a lot one way and paid a lot the other...

There is no law stating the free kicks should even resemble even.  All it shows is a trend of how likely one team was to infringe vs another although you could argue how its possible that the team who had the lions share of the play, and won most of the ball, and had way more posessions and less tackles ended up with more free kicks against.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #84 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
There is no law stating the free kicks should even resemble even.  All it shows is a trend of how likely one team was to infringe vs another although you could argue how its possible that the team who had the lions share of the play, and won most of the ball, and had way more posessions and less tackles ended up with more free kicks against.
If umpires do what Hardwick suggests, blow the whistle early rewarding the tackler, then it must be the case frees are lopsided if possessions are lopsided.

What would you rather watch, blokes attacking the footy and being protected in doing so, or snipers hanging back and tackling after somebody else has done all the hard work to take possession of the footy?

Our game has a long history of rewarding the players who attack the footy, but it recent times it's flipped to be more rewarding for the sniper. I'm finding it difficult to watch, because blokes like Cripps and Walsh are basically held before they even take possession, then dumped if they win the footy. A bloke like Cripps who 9 out of 10 times takes front position at stoppages should be earning heaps of free kicks, he hardly gets any. Yet midgets who throw themselves into his shoulder get rewarded for high contact!

In the past good taggers would spoil, get a fist in the way and stop possession, now many are being coached to allow the opponents to collect the footy before wrapping them up in a tackle. It's deliberate tactic, not just to win the footy but to take an opponent out of the chain of play.

I want to see players side by side, toe to toe, focussed on winning the footy.

PS: Hardwick started all this moving the ball forward at any cost, the kicking in danger and the tackling and dumping of players, because he had a small fast on ball crew that could spread easily with just one extra number. It was easier for them to hunt the man than the ball, if they pick up the pill and get trapped on the inside they can't run and spread, so they hang back and snipe.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #85 –
Quote from: LP – on
There won't be much to come out of that umpire complaining, Hardwick's example was Charlie being spun in the tackle but the reality is Andrew didn't halt Charlie's movement or inhibit his disposal so the umpire is correct.

The umpire was correct because the rule says that he/she must give the player with the ball a reasonable time to dispose of it.  In the circumstances, that was a reasonable time … and the rules say nothing about 360 degrees.

The tackle definition does not include “impede progress” or “prevent disposal”.

The real error the umpire made in that passage of play was failing to pay Charlie a free kick for a push in the back.

Quote from: LP – on
I'm against Hardwick's demand umpires blow the whistle sooner, he seems to think "We the public" want that as the default, which in effect encourages and rewards tacklers. But for me it's the exact opposite of what the general public want, we want the player hunting the ball rewarded, we do not want the sniper who sits off the contests and tackles rewarded.

There’s no logical connection between umpires paying holding the ball free kicks quickly and players being injured in tackles.  Andrew’s tackle was poorly applied and allowed Charlie freedom to move and get an effective disposal. Hardwick would be better off focusing on ensuring that his players tackle correctly.

Part of the problem is confusion about the holding the ball rules.  A player who has “prior opportunity” must dispose of the ball immediately when tackled.  A player who doesn’t have prior opportunity (ie Charlie) must dispose of the ball within a reasonable time as determined by the umpire in the circumstances.

Putting aside team loyalties, what do punters want to see; a player winning a free kick for holding an opponent’s arm or a player taking on the tackler and using strength and skill to dispose of the ball?

I’d rather see Dusty, Reid, Petracca, Crippa, etc take on and beat the tackler.

Hardwick did make one pertinent point; 131 tackles were laid for very few free kicks.  A lot of those tackles were relatively meaningless, repeat efforts in congestion, but more than a few should have been rewarded with holding the ball free kicks and some should have been punished for holding the man.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #86 –
Quote from: DJC – on

Hardwick did make one pertinent point; 131 tackles were laid for very few free kicks.  A lot of those tackles were relatively meaningless, repeat efforts in congestion, but more than a few should have been rewarded with holding the ball free kicks and some should have been punished for holding the man.
Coaches all want a different version of the rules, the version that favours the own game style, don't listen to coaches, listening to coaches is even worse than listening to the media.

Coaches won't even give a consistent interpretation at different ends of the ground!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #87 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
I'd play him in front of Fantasia.

I would play my nana in front of Fantasia.

Why he keeps getting full game time is beyond belief. Surely motlop takes his place if fit this week.

Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #88 –
Quote from: shawny – on
I would play my nana in front of Fantasia.

Why he keeps getting full game time is beyond belief. Surely motlop takes his place if fit this week.

Fantasia was pretty good on Saturday.  He had some critical possessions deep in defence and his pass to Harry for a goal was outstanding.  He's still not hitting the scoreboard himself though.

I'd much prefer to have Motlop in the team, but not on the back of a five disposal game in the VFL.  If he's fit, he should be dominating at that level, even if the team is copping a hiding.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #89 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Fantasia was pretty good on Saturday.  He had some critical possessions deep in defence and his pass to Harry for a goal was outstanding.  He's still not hitting the scoreboard himself though.
I thought it was his best game for us so far, but off a low base.

Still very worried about his lack of physical contesting, for me it's not a game style that stands up in finals, you often see him lurking in the background at stoppages, rarely moves forward into the traffic, even when the ball spills in his direction he seems to back off waiting for it to be delivered.

I much prefer the likes of Acres, Cottrell even Owies, because even if they aren't able to break through at the stoppage they still have a go when they have to.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"