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Topic: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide (Read 17523 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #120 –
Fantasia is not a bad player but I doubt he is the player he was, I don't get the loyalty coming from our fan base as it seems largely undeserved based on his performance so far.

I want him to come good if he can, but at the moment waiting for him to come good in the AFL comes at a cost, it takes a toll on players around him on the field as they must bridge the gaps in his performance. At the moment he gives us much or less of what we got from the likes of Lang and O'Brien. When Fantasia does contribute it's having a disproportionate positive influence because it comes from such a low base.

Fans wouldn't accept Lang or O'Brien not entering the fray, why do they accept Fantasia?

Anyway, last Thursday was probably his best game so far, so given we've persisted with him after much less I doubt we could justify exclusion this week as it would send the wrong message.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #121 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
At least he'd not missing half a season like another 5 or so on the list who should be playing his role and thats worth remembering when bagging him.
No, he's not missing half a season.
Instead he's missing half a game (or more) each week.

I'd prefer the players who miss half a season, at least they can perform when fit.

Look, i've got nothing against him personally, and most of this should be directed at the match committee as much as anything, but he simply isn't performing up to the standard of a 28yo (soon to be 29yo). There is no way that the recruiters would've recruited him if they had've known this was the output they would get from him.
People are happy to see the backs off Marchbank, Cuningham and Martin who have struggled to get out on the park.....but all of them have been able to perform when they do to an acceptable AFL level.

If Fantasia is old, busted and no longer able to perform at an acceptable level, thats fine. Happens to everyone.
If Fantasia is simply getting a game because everyone else is injured, thats fine. Someone has to be picked.
But don't tell me he is a valuable member of the side. Don't tell me his output is acceptable. Don't tell me he deserves his spot in the side.
His output suggests otherwise to all of the above.

Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #122 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Look, i've got nothing against him personally, and most of this should be directed at the match committee as much as anything, but he simply isn't performing up to the standard of a 28yo (soon to be 29yo).
Yes, it seems some are taking the criticism like it's a personal attack, I don't get it as to me it's just a matter of form.

On the MC issue I don't even get why we keep starting Carroll as Sub while Fantasia's output is so low game after game, or why we dropped Binns after hardly any opportunity. Surely our MC aren't suggesting Fantasia is a deeper runner than Binns, from what I've seen Binns is right up there with Ollie Hollands?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #123 –
I guess that given his output (apparently) is so low he’ll be replaced by a player who’s kicking the door down in the twos… what’s his name again ?
Help me here.
Let’s go BIG !

Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #124 –
Quote from: northernblue – on
I guess that given his output (apparently) is so low he’ll be replaced by a player who’s kicking the door down in the twos… what’s his name again ?
Help me here.
That's arguing that a promotion has to be deserved, but the flip side of that is surely that retention should also be deserved?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #125 –
Quote from: northernblue – on
I guess that given his output (apparently) is so low he’ll be replaced by a player who’s kicking the door down in the twos… what’s his name again ?
Help me here.

Lets try it another way.

Who is Fantasia outperforming in the 1's right now?

If we get a player back from injury, who deserves to be dropped before we get to Fantasia?

Now, back to playing your game.
1. Durdin.....he is younger, output is the same, get games into the younger blokes.
2. Binns....certainly knocking the door down, plays a different position, but we can move the team around to accomodate him if we want too.
3. Cottrell, Motlop, Martin, Cuningham.....first one fit gets back in the side.
4. Moir....seems to be struggling in the 2's. Reckon he is the type of player that lifts with the talent around him. I would like to see him get at least 1 game this year, why not now?

So you tell me, what have we got to lose by playing one of the above?

Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #126 –
Quote from: LP – on
Fans wouldn't accept Lang or O'Brien not entering the fray, why do they accept Fantasia?

I mustn’t be paying as much attention as you because I can’t recall Fantasia (or O’Brien for that matter - I don’t remember how Lang played) “not entering the fray”.  I have noticed him and many of his teammates no doubt following instructions and staying outside the contest to receive a pass or disrupt an opposition play.

I suspect that a player who didn’t enter the fray when required would lose Vossy’s respect and would struggle to get a game in the Magoos.

Fantasia is well-entrenched among the bottom 3 or 4 players in our 23 and probably wouldn’t be picked if we had more fit players to choose from.  The fact of the matter is that he is in our best available 23 for now and is doing the job set for him.

For some fans, that makes him an ideal whipping boy 🤣
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #127 –
Quote from: LP – on

On the MC issue I don't even get why we keep starting Carroll as Sub while Fantasia's output is so low, or why we dropped Binns after hardly any opportunity. Surely our MC aren't suggestingf Fantasia is a deeper runner than Binns?

Ahh, we finally have an honest answer…
We the great unwashed have no idea, yet there is a method to the selection and it may just be that he’s a mature body with a good footy IQ of games and patterns.
Maybe with the form and availability of anyone that view will change but until then he’s performing something better than anyone else is expected to able to do.
Let’s go BIG !

Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #128 –
I was having a read of the "Welcome to Carlton- Orazio Fantasia" thread.

Most of the concern seemed to be more centered around his durability.
Could we get him on the park and keep him on it?
Well with 9 games so that doesn't seem to be the issue.
So it's more about form

Lots of varying opinions as to the value of the pick-up.

@Kruddler....you definitely weren't a fan posting this a day or two before we picked him up. :D  :D

Quote
Reply #65 – October 30, 2023, 01:56:22 pm
It means we have a day or so to break his legs so we don't sign him. >:D

Too much?  :-[

Probably a  bit much ;)
 :))  :))
You sure there's not just  a little bit of bias in your assessment ;)  :D


Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #129 –
Quote from: Lods – on
I was having a read of the "Welcome to Carlton- Orazio Fantasia" thread.

Most of the concern seemed to be more centered around his durability.
Could we get him on the park and keep him on it?
Well with 9 games so that doesn't seem to be the issue.
So it's more about form

Lots of varying opinions as to the value of the pick-up.

@Kruddler....you definitely weren't a fan posting this a day or two before we picked him up. :D  :D

Probably a  bit much ;)
 :))  :))
You sure there's not just  a little bit of bias in your assessment ;)  :D

Ha Ha.

Go back to the best 22 thread (part 1?) and i think you'll find i backed the MC in and had him in my best 22. ;)

My issue with 'players' have always been around the role they play when picked. Not themselves as people.
I've been banging the same drum for half a decade or more in regards to picking up a key back (or 3) until we get one that can perform the role long term.

My issue is when we ignore that and take players in positions NOT in need. Fantasia falls into that category.
We delisted Honey and picked up Fantasia. What has he brought us that Honey wasn't? People were very critical of Honey, to the point they pushed him out the door, yet same people are sticking by him. Why?

We recruited small runners in the off-season.
We recruited a small runner in the MSD
We will recruit 2 small runners in the upcoming ND with the campo twins.
THIS is my frustration with the recruitment of Fantasia.

Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #130 –
The first issue we faced with Fantasia was getting him on the park.
Having achieved that, it's keeping him on the park.
The next is how much he can contribute, and that may need to be assessed with some time in VFL  as well as AFL

It's nothing special at the moment, but we are only halfway through the year.

I said earlier that I noticed him more on Thursday than in previous games but
That may be as good as it gets or...

It may be he's gradually working his way into the team structure and into some form.
Or it may just fizzle out and see him play the year in the VFL.

Pressure for his spot needs to come from below, and 15 minutes into the first at VFL level today there not much coming.

(Getting better now)

Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #131 –
Jack Carroll the only one truly staking a claim.

Getting spanked by the bottom side with a wind advantage.

I dont think you can read much into this for any player.


"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #132 –
Fantasia got 20+ touches and a goal in the VFL. Big gap between the two comps.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #133 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Fantasia got 20+ touches and a goal in the VFL. Big gap between the two comps.
Carroll got 32 touches today
Billy Wilson got 24 today
Binns got 21 and a goal today
Durdin got 15 and a goal

All are younger and have performed to the same level as Fantasia (or better)

Carroll had 2 tackles in 19% TOG on Thursday and backed it up today
Fantasia had 2 tackles in 55% TOG on Thursday

Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #134 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Carroll got 32 touches today
Billy Wilson got 24 today
Binns got 21 and a goal today
Durdin got 15 and a goal

All are younger and have performed to the same level as Fantasia (or better)

Carroll had 2 tackles in 19% TOG on Thursday and backed it up today
Fantasia had 2 tackles in 55% TOG on Thursday
But do they run the “right patterns” ?
Do they clog the oppositions midfield when we need to defend and present an option/get out of the way when attacking ?
I think there’s too much micro managing on what Orazio/Durdin don’t do (kick goals)
Let’s go BIG !