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Re: It's now or never!

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Lods – on
You would have to do a bit of a list comparison with other sides.
And not just with numbers of youngsters but quality of youngsters.
I guess my concern is that we're now in our prime with a talented list...but not much coming through in that Under 25 group group.

Where is our Reid, Horne Francis, Rowell etc...
and a side like Sydney has a group of very talented youngsters.
That suggests short term success.
We're fine and competitive for now, but it may not be a long stint at the crease.
this is why I don't understand people who are too concerned about us picking up options that are a bit unorthodox to what our team needs today.  I think we are looking to the future already.  The current mob are ready.  One more player might make the difference but i don't see the point of picking up depth and ending up like the Tigers once the top liners go, or ending up like hawthorn.  I'd rather be Geelong like. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: It's now or never!

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
this is why I don't understand people who are too concerned about us picking up options that are a bit unorthodox to what our team needs today.  I think we are looking to the future already.  The current mob are ready.  One more player might make the difference but i don't see the point of picking up depth and ending up like the Tigers once the top liners go, or ending up like hawthorn.  I'd rather be Geelong like.

Remember SOS’s comment about building a list for sustained success?

Regardless of whether you think that he was on target to achieve that, it is the ultimate list management objective, but not the only one.  We need to be addressing deficiencies, complementing our strengths, building depth, succession planning and doing whatever we can to gain a competitive advantage.  If that means taking an unorthodox approach, go for it!

I have been guilty of overestimating and underestimating our list over the last decade.  With that qualification, I think we now have our strongest and most competitive list of this century.  We can match any team in the competition, on our day and with a bit of luck.  I am sure that, if we had made last season’s GF, number 17 would be in the cabinet at Princes Park.

Is that a premiership window opening or closing? 

I think that it’s wide open and will stay open as long as the club continues to make good decisions, on and off the field!
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: It's now or never!

Reply #17 –
Geelong have been the model for sustained success, they have done it their way but there is that caveat that they have mass appeal to players because of the lifestyle opportunities and attracting players has been somewhat easier for them imho plus they virtually have their own U18 team in the Falcons and are able to attract those kids back to the club in some cases.
Agree with the premise of Lods that we have nothing much coming through in the U25 category with the exception of the Campo kids and they are going to have a fair bit of pressure on them to provide Daicos bros type results.

Re: It's now or never!

Reply #18 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Geelong have been the model for sustained success, they have done it their way but there is that caveat that they have mass appeal to players because of the lifestyle opportunities and attracting players has been somewhat easier for them imho plus they virtually have their own U18 team in the Falcons and are able to attract those kids back to the club in some cases.
Agree with the premise of Lods that we have nothing much coming through in the U25 category with the exception of the Campo kids and they are going to have a fair bit of pressure on them to provide Daicos bros type results.

We've got plenty of U25s that are either regulars in the firsts or who are showing potential; Cowan, Motlop, the two Hollands, Kemp, Walsh and Cottrell in the first category and Carroll, Binns, Monahan, Wilson and Moir in the second.  Then there's another lot of youngsters who may or may not make it.  Then there's another intake, including Scott's boys, to come in this year.  Who knows what talent we may pick up?
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: It's now or never!

Reply #19 –
Quote from: DJC – on
We've got plenty of U25s that are either regulars in the firsts or who are showing potential; Cowan, Motlop, the two Hollands, Kemp, Walsh and Cottrell in the first category and Carroll, Binns, Monahan, Wilson and Moir in the second.  Then there's another lot of youngsters who may or may not make it.  Then there's another intake, including Scott's boys, to come in this year.  Who knows what talent we may pick up?
Depends how you rate those players...Walsh aside the rest are Indians imho and some would qualify as the cigar store type at this at this stage ie 2nd category got beat up by a bunch of no -names from the bottom of the VFL ladder.

Re: It's now or never!

Reply #20 –
Quote from: DJC – on
We've got plenty of U25s that are either regulars in the firsts or who are showing potential; Cowan, Motlop, the two Hollands, Kemp, Walsh and Cottrell in the first category and Carroll, Binns, Monahan, Wilson and Moir in the second.  Then there's another lot of youngsters who may or may not make it.  Then there's another intake, including Scott's boys, to come in this year.  Who knows what talent we may pick up?

We really don't know how those players are going to develop.
It's a bit of a guess.

But is there anyone amongst that group you can see developing into a Cripps, Weitering, McKay or Curnow.
We could see the potential of those guys a mile off.

I'm not as confident with any of those young ones, except Walsh, but even there....
Walsh will give you a 100% and run all day but...
Can he stay on the field, and will he impact a game like a Bont, Cripps, Daicos etc... when the elite are gone?
The others will be servicable...there may be a few who play a couple of hundred games for us, but it's doubtful they'll have the impact of our current elite.

Re: It's now or never!

Reply #21 –
I share the trepidation about the kids but I like the hollands boys.  They have that additional bit of class about how they go about it that suggests they could be influential in the future but they'll build to it over time.  Nothing wrong with that.  Hopefully we'll unearth a gem or two in future. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: It's now or never!

Reply #22 –
It's a fine line.

I've been flagging this for a while with recruiting kpps as we have no depth and talent coming through and that it will come back to bite us. Smalls are a bit easier to come across and fluke one later in the draft.

That being said, the best way to improve your list, and quickly, almost overnight even, is to win a flag. Then everyone becomes.better and more sought after from opposition. Everyone becomes more valuable at the trade table.
You can then use that currency to target needs from the opposition.

If marchbank wins a flag with us he'll get us a good pick/player via trade. If he doesn't, he may be desisted for nothing. Ditto Cuningham.

That's how you rebuild a list.
That's how you attract free agents as well.

But..you gotta win it first. Runners up and top 4  have benefits too, but just not as many.

Re: It's now or never!

Reply #23 –
Agreed, clubs have to develop the rarities early in their career.

Mids are about 30% of AFL lists and you can draft as well as trade for them much more easily to plug holes.

Of course fans can carry on making crazy statements like, "we need a Cripps replacement" like they grow on trees! ;D

What we need in most positions is depth, some of our depth is being cruelled by durability issues, sooner or later we have to get serious about correcting that.  The lack of depth takes a toll on the better players as well, they are over-loaded.

Some fan favourites might bite the dust in the process.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: It's now or never!

Reply #24 –
Quote from: LP – on
Agreed, clubs have to develop the rarities early in their career.

Mids are about 30% of AFL lists and you can draft as well as trade for them much more easily to plug holes.

Of course fans can carry on making crazy statements like, "we need a Cripps replacement" like they grow on trees! ;D

What we need in most positions is depth, some of our depth is being cruelled by durability issues, sooner or later we have to get serious about correcting that.  The lack of depth takes a toll on the better players as well, they are over-loaded.

Some fan favourites might bite the dust in the process.
I'd happily take Liam McMahon as a depth option.  He's tall and he kicks straight. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: It's now or never!

Reply #25 –
Quote from: LP – on
Of course fans can carry on making crazy statements like, "we need a Cripps replacement" like they grow on trees! ;D

That's the point of the thread. ;D
If we aint got one or two of those, we'll be watching on 5 years from now.
It's about how we'll look in 3-4 years.

Depth is more of a 'now' situation.
Depth won't do us a lot of good without a group like Curnow, Weitering, McKay, Cripps etc

Look, it's possible that our very best may still be performing 5 years from now, even in their 30s
But we just don't know
Because the future isn't guaranteed.
So given all that, it's the next 3-4 years when we need to make our mark.

Re: It's now or never!

Reply #26 –
Quote from: Lods – on
That's the point of the thread. ;D
If we aint got one or two of those, we'll be watching on 5 years from now.
It's about how we'll look in 3-4 years.

Depth is more of a 'now' situation.
Depth won't do us a lot of good without a group like Curnow, Weitering, McKay, Cripps etc

Look, it's possible that our very best may still be performing 5 years from now, even in their 30s
But we just don't know
Because the future isn't guaranteed.
So given all that, it's the next 3-4 years when we need to make our mark.


I'm not too concerned about 4 years away.

McKay
Curnow
Weitering
Cerra
Walsh
Silvagni
Tom de koning
Hollands x2
Motlop
Fogarty
Cowan
Kemp
Cotters

All of them are going to still be the right side of 30 and bar a complete meltdown will all still be at worst afl level.

Boyd, Lewis Young, Corey durdin are others who are all still young enough without being the main events, and then you have a few who are only about 27 and 28 and should still be going around in a few years like cincotta.

We need to keep adding to that age group if we are going to go mature agers and we will pick up some under agers too that will come on. I've deliberately avoided the draftees and debutants who show a little but may not make it. They haven't shown they're capable at the level yet so would be unfair to bank on them in future.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: It's now or never!

Reply #27 –
McKay, Curnow and Weitering will be the wrong side of 30 in four years time.
No doubt still capable of good football but maybe moving towards the ends of their careers.

The point of the thread is that these guys and players like Cripps and DeKoning will be at their absolute best in the next four years.
That's when we need to strike...because beyond that it's very much an unknown.
And most of the other listed players, while servicable, are not standouts

Re: It's now or never!

Reply #28 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
I'd happily take Liam McMahon as a depth option.  He's tall and he kicks straight. 
Swingman potential has McMahon and impressed today, needs some more kg's to play good senior footy vs heavier bodies but he has the skills. Id see him as depth to cover for our KP's, Lemmey does some ok things but doesnt seem to impact the game as much at this stage but he is still very inexperienced and needs another season to get fitter and learn the game.

Re: It's now or never!

Reply #29 –
Need to think about a couple of specialist mids and some KP types.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?