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Topic: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS (Read 21684 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #60 –
It’s just a case of second year blues for Ollie. A lot of players go through it.

I firmly believe he’ll be a 200 gamer for us too.
But, let’s set his development and growth up for that - he don’t need him peaking now.

Admit that playing seniors 100% of the time for a 19yo is just flogging him.

Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #61 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
This is about the 4th time you've posted this BS.

Tell me how having Pittonet solved our key defender issues?

You can't.

Let it go.

It doesn't solve them, but our options change.

Weitering doesn't need Lewis Young in the side but he provides us more flexibility if weiters goes down, as the others couldn't stop Hogan yesterday and he's not the biggest forward going around he's just capable.

Last night Charlie gave us the least of our big men. Swinging him back during the run on may have turned his form around, and having pittonet allows us to swing tom forward and put Charlie behind the ball.

Stop those 2, 7 goal quarters at least.

Pittonet can park in defense too.  Hogan was the one that worried us, and I counted at least 2 goal line goals that he would have probably touched through but instead we were relying on lighter more easily shifted bodies.

All of it are fair points, but last night we could have played pittonet or Lewis Young instead of orazio, cotters, cincotta, and we likely lose little run out of it.  Maybe not both, but I think we need to consider that a bit. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #62 –
Second quarter we shifted the A team out of the middle.  I noticed one centre bounce where Fogarty, and the second stringers attended.  This helps gws catch fire and get a run on.  You'd think 8 goals up we can do this safely, but i noted during gws run on cripps was not attending centre bounces in the second quarter until it tightened up.  I think we were reacting to a few things going on at once.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #63 –
Quote from: kruddler – on

Tell me how having Pittonet solved our key defender issues?
If we'd had Pitto as a ruck or some KPP on the bench like Young it's fairly obvious you can reshuffle and share the load.

Whether that is one ruck floating into D50 zone, as Pitto is first class at doing, or having a spare tall to help out the limping Weiters and McGovern doesn't really matter, at least you have a chance of not giving Hogan a free run. Some options, and you can extract players who are hobbling around the field without surrendering momentum 100%.

Sure, we run over them in the last, proving we have plenty of run even when a a bunch of our tall types can barely cover a bath mat. But by that stage it's all too late, and I doubt anybody would assert it's viable for 4 qtrs.

It's not that hard to understand for the open minded.

I should ask, what is your plan in a GF if the very same happens again, ........ leave early?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #64 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Second quarter we shifted the A team out of the middle.  I noticed one centre bounce where Fogarty, and the second stringers attended.  This helps gws catch fire and get a run on.  You'd think 8 goals up we can do this safely, but i noted during gws run on cripps was not attending centre bounces in the second quarter until it tightened up.  I think we were reacting to a few things going on at once.

Fogarty took plenty of centre bounces. Not sure thats a long term solution but its a thing.

Personally i'd prefer to see Fantasia out and swapped with someone like Cuningham or Motlop as they would be more effective up forward and through the middle.

Of course we still have Hewett hanging around as well.

Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #65 –
Quote from: LP – on
If we'd had Pitto as a ruck or some KPP on the bench like Young it's fairly obvious you can reshuffle and share the load.

Whether that is one ruck floating into D50 zone, as Pitto is first class at doing, or having a spare tall to help out the limping Weiters and McGovern doesn't really matter, at least you have a chance of not giving Hogan a free run. Some options, and you can extract players who are hobbling around the field without surrendering momentum 100%.

Sure, we run over them in the last, proving we have plenty of run even when a a bunch of our tall types can barely cover a bath mat. But by that stage it's all too late.

It's not that hard to understand for the open minded.

I should ask what is your plan for the GF if the very same happens again?

Like clockwork.

I knew you'd parrot the answer Thry came up with. Its taken you over 12 hours to answer that question and you manage to do it minutse after thry. lol.

I suppose you failed to notice that TDK was actually 'helping out' down back and was largely useless in the KPD role.
I almost made a comment mid-match saying TDK doesn't share his brothers defensive capabilities. He can't hold his ground as well in marking contests, nor read it as well in the air.

Oh we ran over them in the last.....sure.....we couldn't run over them enough though could we. We fell short in case you fail to remember.
Fixing that by removing run from the side to play a ruck out of position??
Glad you're not coach.

Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #66 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Second quarter we shifted the A team out of the middle.  I noticed one centre bounce where Fogarty, and the second stringers attended.  This helps gws catch fire and get a run on.  You'd think 8 goals up we can do this safely, but i noted during gws run on cripps was not attending centre bounces in the second quarter until it tightened up.  I think we were reacting to a few things going on at once.

I actually thought Cripps was off the ground ?
I thought he was getting treatment for his shoulder ?
Let’s go BIG !

Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #67 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
I suppose you failed to notice that TDK was actually 'helping out' down back and was largely useless in the KPD role
So ignoring all your usual slights, you're going to assert sending TDK back out there on a jabbed up ankle he can barely stand on, barely mobile and unable to jump, is a valid test of his KPD capability.

That's as bad if not worse than claiming TDK against a "no ruck Handbagger squad" is proof solo rucks work, not that anybody would be brazen enough to make that claim!

Even with @Thryleon and myself posting the same basic response, the obvious and rather rudimentary response, you failed to answer either with anything more than smoke and mirrors, as usual!

"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #68 –
Quote from: LP – on
I should ask, what is your plan in a GF if the very same happens again, ........ leave early?
@kruddler

So no reply, busy thinking, not got a solution yet, planning a September Bali holiday....................... left already maybe?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #69 –
Quote from: LP – on
@kruddler

So no reply, busy thinking, not got a solution yet, ....................... left already maybe?
If the same happens again?
We get injuries to 5 players at once?

I can tell you i won't be pining for a 2nd ruck.

But lets say we do have a 2nd ruck on grand final day.
Lets say we get 5 injuries to smalls.
Does that help us?

Doesn't matter what 'what if' game you wanna play, There is no perfect answer.

Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #70 –
Quote from: LP – on
So ignoring all your usual slights, you're going to assert sending TDK back out there on a jabbed up ankle he can barely stand on, barely mobile and unable to jump, is a valid test of his KPD capability.

That's as bad if not worse than claiming TDK against a "no ruck Handbagger squad" is proof solo rucks work, not that anybody would be brazen enough to make that claim!

Even with @Thryleon and myself posting the same basic response, the obvious response, you failed to answer either with anything more than smoke and mirrors, as usual!
So TDK couldn't play back because he was sore.
So you are holding out hope for Pittonet to stop Hogan?
TDK isn't a defender.
Pittonet isn't a defender.
No amount of planning could have stopped the onslaught that occured when we lost Weitering.

.....except if we had maybe chosen some more KPD's at the draft table over the past i dunno, 7 years! Who thought of that??

Oh 1 ruck vs cats is not valid because cats were crap. (Keep in mind my comments are for our team, not anybody elses)
0 rucks vs freo last year is also not valid because.....it hurts people arguments too much?

BTW, how many key defenders do we have in the side? Some people say 3. You say you need more.

Funny, i don't recall all of these 'obvious' calls coming in the lead up to the match. Only during.

Maybe offer some pearls of wisdom before this happens rather than halfway through the game if they are so obvious in the future.
Weren't very obvious is the first quarter were they.

Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #71 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Doesn't matter what 'what if' game you wanna play, There is no perfect answer.
It wasn't a what if, it actually happened.

You own posts expose the hypocrisy of your position, we all know our depth is weakest in KPP options. Like when just yesterday you question why we didn't go for Ben McKay, not that he'd be much use if he wasn't in the 22 on the day.

Quote from: kruddler – on
Yep their gut running to be at both ends of the ground all the time.defies logic.

....but people want pittonet to replace Ollie 🙄
You're crying wolf like the boy with his finger in the dyke!

"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #72 –
On the KPP issue, we need a capable spare on the bench, or at least an option that allows us to re-organise the talls structure should a key KPP go down.

Swapping of a like for like in or out of the 22 is not a useful option, it gives us no security if we still have no spare.

We have all the run we need, yesterday's game proved that, it was the 2nd and 3rd quarter when we we dominated due to the failing health of our KPPs that cost us that game.

When we take BigH out of F50 to ruck, it robs Charlie of opportunity because he gets double teamed. It wasn't until the last Qtr when just before we got on a roll GWS took Aleer off the ground, that Charlie was able to become more of an influence.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #73 –
Quote from: LP – on
It wasn't a what if, it actually happened.

You own posts expose the hypocrisy of your position, we all know our depth is weakest in KPP options. Like when just yesterday you question why we didn't go for Ben McKay, not that he'd be much use if he wasn't in the 22 on the day.
You're crying wolf like the boy with his finger in the dyke!

OK, lets explain 7 years of comments and 1 post for all the slow kids out there. (Psst.....thats you ;) )

We do NOT have a capable KPD behind Weitering. This has been an ongoing discussion for years.
We have shoehorned players into that position with Kemp, McGovern and Marchbank. Young is KPD size, but is devoid of all confidence.

So since we continue to ignore this via trade and via draft because "Their simply isn't any KP talent available" and someone like Ben McKay pops up and we do absolutely nothing about it, then that is mismanagement. I called people out on it, as did others.

So if and when your #1 guy goes down in a match, you don't need to shoehorn a 2nd ruck to cover him, you have a capable #2 to step up into that role and not ask too much from a 'KPD' who many think should be a winger or midfielder.
"Who says that?"

You do...
Quote from: LP – on
Must admit haven't seen him play this season, the HBF game I refer to might have been 2019 or 2020.

Wing makes sense because I recall him having good run, but turned like the Titanic, suited to positions that he can keep the ball in front of him.

Would he play HBF/Wing for us and release Kemp into the midfield rotations?
...and that took all of 30 seconds to find. I'm sure there is plenty more i can find as well.
Thank you for proving my point for me. We don't have a genuine 2nd KPD, we have shoehorned players into that role.

What is it that you were saying about a single point of failure?? Weitering has been and always will be that single point until we can find someone who can genuinly perform on the gun players.


So how about we deal with reality and stop trying to play the 'what if' game AFTER the fact.

Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #74 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
This is about the 4th time you've posted this BS.

Tell me how having Pittonet solved our key defender issues?

You can't.

Let it go.
Again,  can we get a separate topic thread for the ruck debate - getting really tiresome.