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Topic: AFL Rd 20 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide (Read 17671 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 20 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #45 –
Charlie is a star and i never said anything otherwise BUT his raw ability doesn't exclude him from criticism if he is not giving his absolute all.

Tom Hafey was renowned for saying the one non negotiable to being a long term successful team is every single player must give 100% all the time regardless of the different levels of ability.

Want to see Charlie run his player ragged and attack every contest like it matters. He has athletic ability very few defenders can go through.  He is not doing that at the moment and stats showing how good his year is or saying other teams would want him in a heartbeat doesn't change my point.    

Our flag hopes rests on every player buying in 100% from the best player to the worst player. Collingwood were not the best team last year ability wise but they took the cup home.

Re: AFL Rd 20 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #46 –
Quote from: shawny – on
Charlie is a star and i never said anything otherwise BUT his raw ability doesn't exclude him from criticism if he is not giving his absolute all.
He could be injured, nobody knows, maybe that ankle roll caused a loss of confidence or increased caution, finals approach.

He could equally be playing a role to a modified set of instructions.

It could be an effect of BigH having a change of form, or TDK, Cripps, etc., etc..

Is it possibly related to different MC team tactics for different opposition, a tweak here or there?

The asymmetry of the AFL season doesn't help anybody decipher this as we have numerous one off games, and changes in opposition selection, lots of potential drivers of change that fans will be ignorant to and aren't depicted in any set of stats.

As always, the way a set of numbers can get analysed and interpreted by humans will often frame conclusions that aren't represented in the numbers alone.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 20 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #47 –
Kane Kornes wants Harry to miss this week. I wonder why?
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 20 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #48 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Kane Kornes wants Harry to miss this week. I wonder why?
Kane a caring, thoughtful and considerate individual who puts the interest of other ahead of his own! ;D

If not for TDK's injury, this week might have been one of the games the MC could have run with two rucks, Sweet and Dixon present a formidable duo across the whole surface. It's a bit like Stanley and Hawkins when they are in and fit.

It would be untenable for a ruck, even a ruck as mobile as TDK, to be competing in F50 one moment then 80m away competing with Dixon in D50 seconds later, rinse and repeat. This is an example of the fantasy expectation that fans develop when arguing stats alone.


"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 20 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #49 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Kane Kornes wants Harry to miss this week. I wonder why?

In all honesty, he 100% should've missed this week. The stumble after getting back to his feet is a dead giveaway and what the AFL are looking to get out of he game.

However, Kane wouldn't be so altrustic in his logic would he.

Re: AFL Rd 20 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #50 –
Quote from: LP – on
He could be injured, nobody knows, maybe that ankle roll caused a loss of confidence or increased caution, finals approach.

He could equally be playing a role to a modified set of instructions.

It could be an effect of BigH having a change of form, or TDK, Cripps, etc., etc..

Is it possibly related to different MC team tactics for different opposition, a tweak here or there?

The asymmetry of the AFL season doesn't help anybody decipher this as we have numerous one off games, and changes in opposition selection, lots of potential drivers of change that fans will be ignorant to and aren't depicted in any set of stats.

As always, the way a set of numbers can get analysed and interpreted by humans will often frame conclusions that aren't represented in the numbers alone.

I agree Pat.

Re: AFL Rd 20 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #51 –
Quote from: LP – on
It would untenable for a ruck, even a ruck as mobile as TDK, to be competing in F50 one moment then 80m away competing with Dixon in D50 seconds later, rinse and repeat. This is an example of the fantasy expectation that fans develop when arguing stats alone.

This is an example of fantasy all right.....you making things up again.

Nobody suggested any ruck would have to do that, but don't let logic get in the way of your fantasy.

Re: AFL Rd 20 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #52 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
This is an example of fantasy all right.....you making things up again.

Nobody suggested any ruck would have to do that, but don't let logic get in the way of your fantasy.
Of course they have to, that is why they are called solo, whether it's sustainable is another issue. If the opposition move the ball fast, or if we can't slow the transfer of play, they might not make it to the other end in time, but that doesn't mean they won't try!

Not much point playing a solo ruck if they were to only stay in one half of the ground.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 20 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #53 –
Quote from: LP – on
Of course they have to, that is why they are called solo, whether it's sustainable is another issue.

Not much point playing a solo ruck if they were to only stay in one half of the ground.

So the  years worth of arguments on the matter and you still don't understand the concept of a 'backup ruck'?

You know, the blokes we are constantly talking about who take ruck contests when your solo ruck cannot for whatever reason.
I'll give you a hint, their names start with McKay, Cripps, Kennedy.

Re: AFL Rd 20 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #54 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
You know, the blokes we are constantly talking about who take ruck contests when your solo ruck cannot for whatever reason.
I'll give you a hint, their names start with McKay, Cripps, Kennedy.
In the past you have constantly argued you don't want TDK at a reduced number of ruck contests that is caused by playing two rucks, and that the number of ruck contests he gets to directly reflects in his good stoppage figures.

I'm not sure you understand the figures you present in your argument, or more importantly how the numbers come to exist.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 20 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #55 –
Quote from: LP – on
In the past you have constantly argued you don't want TDK at a reduced number of ruck contests that is caused by playing two rucks, and that the number of ruck contests he gets to directly reflects in his good stoppage figures.

100% false claim.

Re: AFL Rd 20 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #56 –
nooooooooo

Re: AFL Rd 20 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #57 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
100% false claim.
That's just a further demonstration you might not fully understand the meaning of the numbers you present, you don't have to express your claims in words to convey meaning, they are an inherent property of the figures presented. Math is a language, and the numbers hold and describe relationships, which can also be described in written word.

You have become so heavily invested in this solo ruck debate it is clouding your judgement, to the point you can't see that you are contradicting yourself.

Despite many of us posting that it remains an MC decision on a week by week tactical basis, including my earlier #48 Reply in this very thread which stated "this week might have been...." , you continue the barrage.

Only fools talk definitive.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 20 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #58 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/C/Charlie_Curnow.html#20240

Whatever other information may be available, the numbers from AFL Tables suggest that his two poor games were Tigers and Giants. A post earlier from MBB asserts that a drop between Rds 1-11 and R12 onward is most likely due to injury,and if so, then his performances since R12 are all the more remarkable IMO, even allowing for the 2 poor games.

Charlie has had three quieter games this season; rounds 8, 16 and 17.  He has been remarkably consistent across the rest of the season.  All players would be carrying niggles at this stage of the season but there's nothing about Charlie's play that suggests an injury. 
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: AFL Rd 20 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #59 –
Given the outs........

Kemp               Weitering       Newman
Saad                McGovern      Boyd
Hollands (O)    Cripps            Walsh
Motlop            Curnow         Holland (E)
Owies              McKay          Cincotta

Pittonet        Hewett      Cerra

Cowan   Fogarty   Kennedy   Carroll

Sub: Cottrell.

Out TDK, Durdin, Acres,     In: McGovern, Boyd, Kemp