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Topic: How will we line up in 2025. (Read 44845 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #165 –
Quote from: northernblue – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
It's not just playing with two specialist KP defenders but also having proper backup for Weitering if he gets injured.



I don’t believe we can have a proper backup up for Weitering, no Rolls Royce is going to sit in the magoos until Weiters goes down.
A backup will be someone with a bit of size who can play a role, hopefully…
GWS had Buckley fill in for Taylor at Fullback and Himmelberg/Leek Aleer stepped up to take Buckleys role.
I dont expect a Rolls Royce or two in the waiting but the GWS setup is one I would aspire to where you have two quality KP defenders and if one is injured the other one can still run the defense with decent help.

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #166 –
Austin admitted in one interview I heard that   key defenders were a critical list need (words to that effect), so the club is is clearly aware of the issue.
Not surprised Ollie is being trialled behind the ball, spends a lot of time back there anyway helping out, don't know if he is strong enough against the small marking types like Cameron, Greene etc.  That's Newman's job.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #167 –
Quote from: Professer E – on
Austin admitted in one interview I heard that   key defenders were a critical list need (words to that effect), so the club is is clearly aware of the issue.
Not surprised Ollie is being trialled behind the ball, spends a lot of time back there anyway helping out, don't know if he is strong enough against the small marking types like Cameron, Greene etc.  That's Newman's job.

Ollie is better suited in the backline as wingman these days are brutes or super silky like Sidebottom and Josh Daicos.

He is a brave determined nugget and is better suited winning the ground ball and zip out of the backline. Good decision maker is Ollie will turn into a Simmo/Saad in a couple of years if we persist. Newy is a different type because he just doesn't lose his one on ones but doesn't have the groundball get ability and zip.

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #168 –
https://www.zerohanger.com/afl-draft-carlton-list-boss-thrilled-with-diverse-draft-haul-157026/

Regarding O'Farrell :

With pick No. 40, the Blues selected Harry O'Farrell, a promising 197cm key defender from Calder Cannons. Austin emphasised O'Farrell's raw potential, noting his balance of defensive capabilities and offensive instincts.

“It has been a positional need... one that can come in and develop,” Austin explained.

“Like all the draftees, they're not in a hurry to play; they'll play when they're ready. Harry's got some size to put on, but he's certainly got a lot of talent.”

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #169 –
Quote from: northernblue – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
It's not just playing with two specialist KP defenders but also having proper backup for Weitering if he gets injured.

I don’t believe we can have a proper backup up for Weitering, no Rolls Royce is going to sit in the magoos until Weiters goes down.
A backup will be someone with a bit of size who can play a role, hopefully…

There seems to be a misunderstanding of sorts.

Nobody is expecting someone of Weiterings capabilities to be sitting on the sidelines raring to go when his name is called.
If Weitering was cloned, we'd easily find a spor for both in the best 22. So we don't need Weiterings 'backup' in the 2's.

What we are saying is we don't have anyone who can play a similar role to weitering on our list.
If Weitering goes down, who can we trust to lock down on a forward and take him out of the game?
If Weitering goes down, who can we trust to do his role, and help out the rest of the backline when required?

Thing with Weitering is, he can play lock down. He can play intercept. He can even play on smaller, dangerous forwards when the need arises.
Remember Dustin Fletcher? He played on Fevola, he played on Eddie Betts. He played on whoever was going to give them the most grief....and Weitering is similar to that.

Ideally, i want another Weitering type in the best 22 who can do the same thing. In reality, all i want is a CHB who is capable of locking down on an opponent and taking them out of the game.

If the opposition only has 1 key forward, fine, let the CHB take him, and let Weitering roam free as a 3rd tall.
If the opposition has 2 key forwards, the CHB and Weitering take care of business there.

We CAN fit a genuine CHB into our side without having to worry about how many KPF's the opposition has. Weitering is flexible enough to fit in regardless of who he needs to play on.

What we currently have an issue with is if Weitering is not there, injured or whatever, we don't have a lock down type who can play on the bigger forwards. On occasions Kemp, Young or even McGovern might have been able to get us out of trouble. On other occasions they've been embarrassed in that same role. We need consistency there, we need a CHB.

So now Kemp is moving forward.
Haynes IMO will come in and take his role. McGovern probably staying as 3rd tall and Weitering still #1.
Young to play backup in the 2's.....possibly with Silvagni too...although the latter may find a spot on the bench as a utility, 3rd tall/2nd ruck, depending on who else is in the team at the time.

The need for that CHB is still there from next year if/when Haynes retires.

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #170 –
I thought youngs best footy has come when weitering was either under duress or not playing.

His worst footy has been when weitering has been at his best.

I'm comfortable that young can fill that hole well enough of weitering is absent.  A complimentary type to both is necessary.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #171 –
Don't need two lockdown key defenders
In good team defence can zone off and cover the second tall
Leave the 2nd tall one on one then team defence broke down. Coaches from where I sit dont see the merit in giving up run and rebound for two lock down defenders
Defence wasn't the problem in 2024 anyway... it was defending stoppages

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #172 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
https://www.zerohanger.com/afl-draft-carlton-list-boss-thrilled-with-diverse-draft-haul-157026/

Regarding O'Farrell :

With pick No. 40, the Blues selected Harry O'Farrell, a promising 197cm key defender from Calder Cannons. Austin emphasised O'Farrell's raw potential, noting his balance of defensive capabilities and offensive instincts.

“It has been a positional need... one that can come in and develop,” Austin explained.

“Like all the draftees, they're not in a hurry to play; they'll play when they're ready. Harry's got some size to put on, but he's certainly got a lot of talent.”



Yup picked up early in a super draft - we are lucky we got him where we did. Type that will come on leaps and bounds very quickly if we get his development right

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #173 –
Quote from: pinot – on
Don't need two lockdown key defenders
In good team defence can zone off and cover the second tall
Leave the 2nd tall one on one then team defence broke down. Coaches from where I sit dont see the merit in giving up run and rebound for two lock down defenders
Defence wasn't the problem in 2024 anyway... it was defending stoppages

While it’s true that our defence held up against all opposition - the Hawthorn injury-blighted game excepted - it’s not about having two lockdown key defenders.  Weitering is not a lockdown key defender and none of our other tall defenders would qualify.  Weitering is an outstanding one on one defender who knows when to leave his opponent and turn defence into attack.

Team defence is essential but being able to at least half a contest with your direct opponent is equally essential.  The seven or eight defenders we relied on did their job but we need better team defence, better one on one defence, and midfielders who don’t lose defensive 50 stoppages.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #174 –
Quote from: pinot – on
Don't need two lockdown key defenders
In good team defence can zone off and cover the second tall
Leave the 2nd tall one on one then team defence broke down. Coaches from where I sit dont see the merit in giving up run and rebound for two lock down defenders
Defence wasn't the problem in 2024 anyway... it was defending stoppages

I suggest you re-read what i wrote as you seem to have misunderstood it.

Weitering is playing as a lockdown defender because we have nobody else capable.
Weitering is at his best when he doesn't have to sit on an opponent.
Introducing a key defender who can lockdown frees up weitering to do as he pleases.

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #175 –
For those who don't understand, watch Melbourne's premiership team. 

May, lever and the 3rd tall down back was Petty.

Petty is the one we need.  May would also be good, but lever wouldn't really suit us as well as the other two.

Nathan broad or Dylan Grimes types would also do the job.

Thing is, I reckon we worry too much about height too.  Second they're under 194 most write them off, but Richmond's 3 peat had astbury as the tallest defender and I remember tigers fans thinking he was a dud.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #176 –
It's probably as much about overall body size as weight.
May is only 193 but is over a hundred kilos.
Lever on the other hand is taller (195cm) but weighs less than 90 kg

The 'two big guys in defence' idea  probably got a bit of a boost from the success of May and Lever.
But it was probably as much about how they work together as their size.

One of the teams where we could probably do with two big defenders is Geelong.

One thing that always surprises me is that when we play Geelong, Weitering takes Hawkins (or did), rather than Cameron. I'm wondering why...especially as Hawkins was in his 'twilight' in recent years and Weitering easily accounted for him.

We never have a good match for Cameron
There was one occasion this year when Binns was his direct opponent in a contest.
That didn't end well.
Young played in that game, so was probably Cameron's opponent on the day.
Where is the problem if Weitering takes Cameron?


Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #177 –
Quote from: Lods – on
It's probably as much about overall body size as weight.
May is only 193 but is over a hundred kilos.
Lever on the other hand is taller (195cm) but weighs less than 90 kg

The 'two big guys in defence' idea  probably got a bit of a boost from the success of May and Lever.
But it was probably as much about how they work together as their size.

One of the teams where we could probably do with two big defenders is Geelong.

One thing that always surprises me is that when we play Geelong, Weitering takes Hawkins (or did), rather than Cameron. I'm wondering why...especially as Hawkins was in his 'twilight' in recent years and Weitering easily accounted for him.

We never have a good match for Cameron
There was one occasion this year when Binns was his direct opponent in a contest.
That didn't end well.
Young played in that game, so was probably Cameron's opponent on the day.
Where is the problem if Weitering takes Cameron?



Weitering isnt quick and couldnt keep up with Cameron, the players who worry Weitering are the leading style who are quick off the mark.  The best combo in the league is Taylor and Buckley rather than May and Lever imo...the latter two have relied on Petty to do the grunt work while they do the intercept role and when Petty was moved forward it didnt really work for Melbourne down back imho.

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #178 –
Yep
I thought it's probably a speed, and maybe a mobility issue as well, as Cameron moves all over the shop.
Lever and May haven't been near as influential in recent times and I was talking more about the period when Melbourne were at their peak a few years back.

There is a point to all that though and it's that  KPD's all have their strengths and weaknesses.
The measure of the Key defender isn't so much a height and weight issue as it is a skill issue.
A good leap can overcome a height deficiency.
Speed to the contest can overcome a cumbersome gorilla.

I think of some of our premiership sides and the mid sized key defenders who were more than a match for bigger forwards.

What we're all looking for is that elite combination of Fullback/ CHB, but more often you just have to settle for a really good one, and a support cast of solid players.

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #179 –
Quote from: Lods – on
It's probably as much about overall body size as weight.
May is only 193 but is over a hundred kilos.
Lever on the other hand is taller (195cm) but weighs less than 90 kg

The 'two big guys in defence' idea  probably got a bit of a boost from the success of May and Lever.
But it was probably as much about how they work together as their size.

One of the teams where we could probably do with two big defenders is Geelong.

One thing that always surprises me is that when we play Geelong, Weitering takes Hawkins (or did), rather than Cameron. I'm wondering why...especially as Hawkins was in his 'twilight' in recent years and Weitering easily accounted for him.

We never have a good match for Cameron
There was one occasion this year when Binns was his direct opponent in a contest.
That didn't end well.
Young played in that game, so was probably Cameron's opponent on the day.
Where is the problem if Weitering takes Cameron?

I think that Sicily has shown that size isn’t everything.  However, if a forward has an advantage in strength, reach, quickness off the mark, endurance, etc, they will try to exploit it.  That’s where help defence should come in.

Most teams struggle to contain Cameron.  A defender who can match him in a one on one contest in the goal square will be left floundering when he bursts through the centre.

Cameron’s opponents often switch when he goes into the midfield and that can produce a mismatch … like Binns.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!