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Topic: How will we line up in 2025. (Read 44858 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #240 –
My  predicted Rnd 1 team squad of 24 (right now)
FB Cowan Weitering Saad
HB O Hollands McGovern Haynes
C Acres Cripps Walsh
HF Kemp McKay Fogarty
FF Motlop De Koning Williams
FOL Pittonet Cerra Hewett
INT Silvagni Lord Moir Docherty Cottrell E Hollands

I think we will play TDK fwd and Pitto in the Ruck rnd 1
Walsh and SOS will be ready and will play.
Doc better work on his disposal or he might find himself in the twos.
There are ill founded rumours swirling around of E Hollands having a club enforced holiday (disciplinary), I doubt its true but where there is smoke there is generally fire.
Of course we have a match next week and who knows what the injury gods have in store for us then. I would send the reserves side to GWS if it were up to me.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #241 –
I don't want to trigger another ruck debate and I realise that Lewis Young isn't everyone's favourite, or perhaps even anyone's favourite, but consider the following:

Pitto is a decent ruckman but he doesn't do a lot around the ground or when he's not rucking.  By his own admission, he is working on improving his input when he's not rucking but improvement is not evident so far.

On Friday Lewis Young played around two thirds of the game and he spent part of that as a key forward, part as a key defender, and the rest in the ruck.  Rucking has never been one of Young's strong points but he looked OK in the ruck, admittedly against GWS part-timers.

If Young can work on his ruck craft, and improve his shocking kicking for goal, does he become a more versatile option than Pitto if we want to run with an extra tall in the mix?
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #242 –
Quote from: DJC – on

If Young can work on his ruck craft, and improve his shocking kicking for goal, does he become a more versatile option than Pitto if we want to run with an extra tall in the mix?
If we can't get Charlie on the park, Pitto remains out for an extended period, Lemmey still isn't uncompetitive, Young might be our only option.

We already have SoJ back, Young and SoJ are about the same in pure ruck effectiveness, but aside from pure ruck SoJ surpasses Young in both F50 and Stoppage effectiveness, and by some margin. So if we are to surrender ruck dominance, then I'd rather SoJ.

On the D50 side of this debate, Haynes, Weitering and McGovern look formidable, SoJ looks more than useful as a back up option, and the more time Kemp spends forward the better he become at defending.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #243 –
Richmond are rebuilding and are no good so imho it wont matter who we put out on the park as long as we have Cripps, TDK, Harry, Weitering and a few capable Indians we should win easy and anything else is unacceptable.
Didnt watch the game vs GWS but it seemed like a major improvement from the previous week in effort and skill and Id expect TDK and Cripps to dominate the Tigers and setup the win with hopefully no injuries.

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #244 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Richmond are rebuilding and are no good so imho it wont matter who we put out on the park as long as we have Cripps, TDK, Harry, Weitering and a few capable Indians we should win easy and anything else is unacceptable.
Didnt watch the game vs GWS but it seemed like a major improvement from the previous week in effort and skill and Id expect TDK and Cripps to dominate the Tigers and setup the win with hopefully no injuries.
Major improvement is an understatement EB. The hitout v StK looked shambolic for the most part. The hitout vs GWS was the complete opposite, organised, cohesive and fairly strong at the contest for a praccy match. Lots of positives with SOS and Lucas Campo, there were a few negatives but by and large, the perfectly choreographed tune up for round 1.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #245 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Richmond are rebuilding and are no good so imho it wont matter who we put out on the park as long as we have Cripps, TDK, Harry, Weitering and a few capable Indians we should win easy and anything else is unacceptable.
Didnt watch the game vs GWS but it seemed like a major improvement from the previous week in effort and skill and Id expect TDK and Cripps to dominate the Tigers and setup the win with hopefully no injuries.
Major improvement is an understatement EB. The hitout v StK looked shambolic for the most part. The hitout vs GWS was the complete opposite, organised, cohesive and fairly strong at the contest for a praccy match. Lots of positives with SOS and Lucas Campo, there were a few negatives but by and large, the perfectly choreographed tune up for round 1.

Bear in mind that Briggs was a late out for GWS so they went in without a recognised ruckman. 

On the other side of the coin, we kept Harry in cotton wool and, as Sammy Hammil pointed out, we had nine players with less than 50 games.  Two of those are yet to play a game.

The St Kilda game was about working through scenarios and getting players to their allotted minutes.  The GWS game still had an element of “it’s only a practice match” about it but there was a much greater focus on playing our system.  Vossy would have been pretty happy with what he saw but Kingsley has some headaches to resolve.

One of the aspects of the game that would have pleased Vossy was the Kemp-Silvagni swap.  Both looked very comfortable and capable in their new roles.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #246 –
Quote from: DJC – on
I don't want to trigger another ruck debate and I realise that Lewis Young isn't everyone's favourite, or perhaps even anyone's favourite, but consider the following:

Pitto is a decent ruckman but he doesn't do a lot around the ground or when he's not rucking.  By his own admission, he is working on improving his input when he's not rucking but improvement is not evident so far.

On Friday Lewis Young played around two thirds of the game and he spent part of that as a key forward, part as a key defender, and the rest in the ruck.  Rucking has never been one of Young's strong points but he looked OK in the ruck, admittedly against GWS part-timers.

If Young can work on his ruck craft, and improve his shocking kicking for goal, does he become a more versatile option than Pitto if we want to run with an extra tall in the mix?

I've got no place for Young in the side, be that forward, back or in the ruck.

He is largely very average in each area.

Silvagni made his way into my best 22 (admittedly with 2 automatic outs) and he is more than capable of filling each of those roles and does it better than Young.

Regardless, i'd prefer Harry and Cripps part time rucking behind TDK which allows both of them to 'break the tag' a little bit and gives them some freedom that they don't get otherwise. Both, are better options than Young in the ruck as well......and clearly better in their #1 role as well.

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #247 –
I think Young will play as the second ruckman. We look a little short without him. While he is not a ruckman as such he is always competitive. He would be a role player.  I thought they could go with Lemmey but I think Voss prefers experience over youth.

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #248 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Didnt watch the game vs GWS but it seemed like a major improvement from the previous week in effort and skill and Id expect TDK and Cripps to dominate the Tigers and setup the win with hopefully no injuries.
@ElwoodBlues1 GWS play this weekend, we don't play until the 13th, we shouldn't be reading too much into the result.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #249 –
Young's second efforts are poor even relative to the younger players on our list, too often you see him make one contested effort then watch on as play continues away from him, it is why in the past we've seen several team-mates ripping into him on the ground. He spectates too much, in my opinion that unforgiveable.

Having said that, if he plays I hope he proves me wrong.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #250 –
Quote from: LP – on
Young's second efforts are poor even relative to the younger players on our list, too often you see him make one contested effort then watch on as play continues away from him, it is why in the past we've seen several team-mates ripping into him on the ground. He spectates too much, in my opinion that unforgiveable.

Having said that, if he plays I hope he proves me wrong.
Fair points on Young, its a shame he isnt contesting like he did in his first season and showing the desperation he did then but as you say second efforts are poor and in the range of zero to minimal but its his size and flexibility to play a few positions that keeps you interested in giving him another chance but he has proven a jack of all trades but master of none and with minimal effort attached. For a player who was shown where the exit door was and told to look around the lack of interest probably tells you how he is viewed and you would think he would be really going harder to prove to all clubs he is still valuable as a player but his attitude and intent doesnt look much different. I missed the GWS game so didnt see his stint in the ruck but going on his previous efforts I wouldnt be considering him as a 2nd ruckman unless we were desperate and Id be sticking with Harry as the player to give TDK a rest each quarter.

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #251 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Didnt watch the game vs GWS but it seemed like a major improvement from the previous week in effort and skill and Id expect TDK and Cripps to dominate the Tigers and setup the win with hopefully no injuries.
@ElwoodBlues1 GWS play this weekend, we don't play until the 13th, we shouldn't be reading too much into the result.

We play four days after GWS’s first game.  Do you really think the preparation of the two teams will be that far apart?

I reckon that Kingsley will be reading a hell of a lot into the game.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #252 –
Quote from: DJC – on
We play four days after GWS’s first game.  Do you really think the preparation of the two teams will be that far apart?

I reckon that Kingsley will be reading a hell of a lot into the game.
They weren't really chasing, exerted little pressure and showed relatively minimal 2nd effort.

We aren't that fast of a side relative to GWS, yet they barely got within reach of us on turnovers and centre breaks, even though they had a relatively small mobile midfield. I'd expect us to be physically dominant given the line ups, but not dominant with run, it's a tell. Motlop isn't fast but ran away from opponents, Young isn't fast but got defenders on the lead, Hewett was spreading with the footy. We had players with clear runs taking speccies over 2 and 3 opponents.

I'm not kyboshing our squad, but pre-season is always deceptive, you can't read too much into it.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"
 

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #253 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: DJC – on
We play four days after GWS’s first game.  Do you really think the preparation of the two teams will be that far apart?

I reckon that Kingsley will be reading a hell of a lot into the game.
They weren't really chasing, exerted little pressure and showed relatively minimal 2nd effort.

We aren't that fast of a side relative to GWS, yet they barely got within reach of us on turnovers and centre breaks, even though they had a relatively small mobile midfield. I'd expect us to be physically dominant given the line ups, but not dominant with run, it's a tell. Motlop isn't fast but ran away from opponents, Young isn't fast but got defenders on the lead, Hewett was spreading with the footy. We had players with clear runs taking speccies over 2 and 3 opponents.

I'm not kyboshing our squad, but pre-season is always deceptive, you can't read too much into it.

So why then was Kingsley so concerned about GWS's form?  Was he reading too much into it or was he taking part in a charade?

Statistically, the game was very even with basically the same disposals (we had more kicks but that's our way), tackles, uncontested possessions, contested marks, and inside 50s.  We had more contested possessions, more uncontested marks, hitouts, clearances and significantly more shots at goal from our forward 50 entries.  Basically, we simply disrupted GWS's game style, largely through our midfield dominance but also through a switched on team defence.  That's what concerned Kingsley.

Yes, it was just a practice match, but Kingsley tried everything he could to get his team back into the game.

As for Motlop not being fast; "Agility is Motlop’s greatest athletic attribute, registering a top five finish at the national combine with a time of 8.063 seconds. That trait is showcased on-field as well, with his slick movement in tight situations making him hard to grab for the opposition, and he isn't afraid to use it at anytime. It proves a particularly dangerous weapon inside 50, where Motlop is able to weave through multiple would-be tacklers and kick goals out of nothing."

Then there's the work our forwards do to free their teammates to lead or fly for marks.  In Brodie Kemp's words, "It’s a cliche, but I’m a product of my environment. I’ve got some good people around me and the team today played really well: we got our contest right up the field, the mids were really good at getting it inside 50 and I was able to go for my marks. Guys like Lachie Fogarty, Jesse Motlop and Zac Williams were blocking my man so I could get a run and jump at it, and I was fortunate to get on the end of a few."
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #254 –
Quote from: DJC – on

As for Motlop not being fast; "Agility is Motlop’s greatest athletic attribute, registering a top five finish at the national combine with a time of 8.063 seconds.
We've been through this multiple times before, there is a huge difference between acceleration and sustained top speed, both are important. And agility is largely irrelevant outside of traffic, as I was discussing moving the footy unhindered and unpressured through free space.

Cripps would easily be one of our quickest over the first 5 or 10 steps, that is his training and power base, but after that the bulk of the AFL pass him like he's standing still, Motlop is no different.

I get it, you want to talk us up, as Mulder says, "you want to believe", but AFL is real not just a dream.

The ball movement we saw happen in the pre-season games for both sides, hardly ever or never happens in the real deal, that is not an accident. The same applies to Kemp or McGovern finding themselves free to jump uncontested and unhindered.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"